Is this SHTF, or are you expecting something much more dire?

I haven't seen anyone protesting marching or rebelling. People are so interested we actually had over 50% of registered voters vote, never mind the fact that voting now goes on for a month and we have to have voting at convenient places. Most American's wouldn't take an hour off from work without pay to vote.

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"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self confidence"
Robert Frost

I think these hard times are going to be with us for quite awhile. It has been comming for a long time and will take a long time to clear up. We have a generation of young people that have never Known want for anything. They have no idea how to get by without all the want. In the Great Depression times were very hard but people respected each other. I am afraid that today we will see a lot more stealing going on. No matter what God is still on the throne and He will supply all our needs (not our wants.) My parents came through the depression and WWII and they wanted to have things better for their children they did all they could to give us things they never had but they also knew how to survive on what we had. We didn't have much we were poor but so was everyone else.

RenieB

"...the government is smarter."

Would you like some ocean front property in West Texas?

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Alice
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"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

I don't think it is TSHTF at all. The Great Depression wasn't even TSHTF. It was hard and rough, but not the end of the world. The Dust Bowl was close.

This is the roar before you see the lion. It is a chance to really get organized and get proactive. Still have power, water etc.. so life is good.
However, I am definitely taking all of the dire financial news as a call to prep more and really get to work on the homestead to make it more sustaining.
While I can still afford it I will get more seeds, trees, tools, animals etc...
I am really looking at what infrastructure we need to sustain as well.. a cistern, more pens etc..
It is not the end as of yet, but it is nice to perhaps have some warning.

This may be it but we won't know until the dust settles. Hopefully the optimism the world has shown over our election results is contagious.

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"Do you believe in the devil? You know, a supreme evil being dedicated to the temptation, corruption, and destruction of man?" Hobbs
"I'm not sure that man needs the help." Calvin

I agree.

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My SHTF scenario has always been centered on a US financial meltdown. Working combined we make good money and our debt load is no problem with both of us working. In our married lifetime together of 34 years one of us has always felt secure at work when the others jobs got uncertain.

We have never been in the current situation where there is a real good possibility both of our jobs could vanish at the same time PLUS the real-estate market here is in the toilet with it seems like every fifth house has been for sale for over 1 year.

So we are facing a triple whammy: losing both jobs and the inability to sell our house.

This is much much worse than I was planning for.

I doubt this will be as bad as the "Great Depression" and realize that the Great Depression was not as bad as is remembered. It was the cities folk that caused the problem with their wild "investing" speculation on borrowed money, just like today, and they are the ones that suffered the worse, as they will today if the government would just stop bailing them out. Out in the countryside the Great Depression did not have nearly as much impact. The Great Depression merely reduced the high falooting city folk a bit closer to their country cousins.

I read articles in the paper of city folk complaining how bad things are today. The complaints they make seem so minor, so trivial. They totally fail to see that they are the problem. Yesterday I was reading an article about people reminiscing on the Great Depression and I was struck by the same thing. They complained about having to eat soup. We eat soup virtually every day - it's good food. Another writer complained about having to buy bones and vegetables to make soup. Gee, we make soup with bones every time we have bones. We save bones up after meals for soup. Another one complained about having to move out of their big fancy house and into an apartment - there were photos and it was a very nice apartment! This same complaint was mirrored both in the Great Depression article and in the modern article! These people don't realize how good life is. They have food. They have shelter. What they need is to get a grip. The other thing they complain about is a lack of jobs. Well, go out and make something, do something. They shouldn't rely on other people to hire them. They should take responsibility for themselves and stop whining.

No, this is not the TSHTF at all. TSHTF is far worse. Even the Great Depression wasn't TSHTF. This is just some moderately rich people, bankers, investors, etc, whining about having lost some money in the stock market, real estate and other (in)securities. They were gambling. Gambling is about taking a risk and sometimes winning, sometimes losing. We definitely shouldn't be bailing them out - it will just encourage their bad choices. Now that the $700 Billion bailout passed, against the wishes of the people, other groups like the auto industry, airlines industry and such are demanding their own bailout. Absurd. Let them fail.

Okay, one more thing that really gripes me: on the bailout they are deciding that some businesses are too big to allow to fail but other smaller businesses will not get a bailout. Now I'm against the bailout but if they're going to do something like that then they should be applying exactly the opposite criteria - help everyone or nobody or start with the small ones. *grrr*

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SugarMtnFarm.com -- Pastured Pigs, Poultry, Sheep, Dogs and Kids

Thank you, Rose.

I agree that this is not our personal shtf, but we have been prepping, have paid off all our debt save for our mortgage. We're a little nervous about the current economy, and could get by if only one of were working.

So, we're sitting tight, saving money, and waiting to see what happens in January.

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Living Simply... Or at least making the attempt. Blessed Be.

I think we'll know more next year also. The real question in my book is if it gets worse, I think the recovery will take a long time. Most of our manufacturering jobs have moved offshore. We have record National debt with new players wanting some of that interest action. And we have a populace that has forgotten it's agricultural roots. But most of all society has an entitlement mentality. If things really fall apart, it will probably get ugly. Have a nice day, I'm going to go out and shoot another deer. That should make me feel better.

Highlands, very good post by the way.

I disagree. My grandfather told me that when the stock market crashed, few people really were affected. But when virtually every bank in the country failed, he thought the world was ending. If you can't get your money or if it becomes worthless, you notice it in a hurry!!

If memory of my grandfather's stories are correct, the banks were closed about one day.

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Alice
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"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

I have lived through democrat presidents before.

I really do not see this administration as being the end all of SHTF scenarios.

US banks are still running, there are no bread lines in my area, the NG is not on the street corners maintaining order; so 'NO' I do not see this as any form of SHTF.

Not at all.

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As we are dealing with hard times today, we need to be teaching our children to handle it tomorrow. They will NOT live their lives without spells of hard times.

There is only so far setting a good example will go.

I will tell them to remember the foods they grew up on: we served them often because they were good and also cheap. Remember the things I had you help mend: one day you might need to fix things yourself. This is how you behave on the job: people who request politely will do better at work than those who first demand and then complain. You will be employed longer or promoted more often if you use good social skills.

We will take good care of our kids: we always have. And, these times will make WONDERFULL object lessons and examples for them when they grow up.

The previous generation had the Great Depression. Perhaps we will have this crash, and the next generation will likely have their own crash too.

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I agree with the general sentiment of your post Walter, but one thing that is totally different now than even 30 years ago is the wonderful little thing called the 401K.

When the market crashed in 29 it was the rich fat cats that took the biggest hit. It trickled down in the loss of jobs, etc.

Never in the past has such a high percentage of Americans been vested in the markets. More vested = more hurt in my opinion.

Hopefully we won't ever know... but don't bet on it.

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If I remember correctly, investing in the stock market had become a popular thing to do in the 1920's, not at the current rates but a lot of ordinary people did invest. Unfortunately for them, they did by paying only a portion of the cost of the stock, with the intention of selling fairly soon, paying what they owed and having a profit left over. So when they couldn't sell because the market crashed, they not only lost what they had but ended up owing money too.
A lot of rich individuals tried propping up the market by buying stocks that were dropping to keep the price up, but the market kept going down and took them with it.

Today at least most people have seen the value of their accounts drop but they don't owe money.

What is really worrisome to me is the number of pension funds and service districts and schoolboards, etc who have made risky investments that are only hanging on by a thread if they haven't already tanked. That would mean that pensions owed and money that had been put aside to run public services could be lost and increasing fees and taxes are the only way to recoup.

Good observation. 401k's are the invention of the post Carter years of get Joe American ( I can't help it) to invest in what's become the fixed game of the stock market. investing thru mutual funds so you have no say or real ownership in what you're investing in. Also with wishful promises of tax savings. Now fast forward to today and the boomers at the threshold of retirement.

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"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self confidence"
Robert Frost

Except that most rural folk people didn't have money in the bank. Again, it was a city problem. Also realize that back then most of the country was rural folk. Now most is city folk. They brought the problem on themselves both times. They lose their connection to the land and reality.

Most people I know don't have money in the bank. They pay cash. They use a checking account to hold only a little money to pay bills. They carry as little debt as possible. They have their assets as land, home and work equipment - think tractors, trucks, skidders, etc which they've paid for.

Admittedly, I'm in a very rural area. I don't empathize well with the investment bankers and fancy people who've created this financial crisis for themselves, who have two, three, seven homes (and can't keep track of how many), who've lost out so badly either time and are getting a $700 Billion bailout this time. That bailout will come out of my pocket to the tune of $13,500 plus interest. I would have preferred to keep the money and let the people who made those shaky investments sweat it out.

The reality is many of us have always live in what those people call "hard times" - these investment bankers are just discovering frugality. It would be nice for them to learn how to live on a tight budget. Baji-naji.

The 401K what? Is that a tractor part, a seed variety or road number? Never seen it. My retirement is in my land. The only stock I own are grazing on my other asset. 401K's, stocks, T-bills, mutual funds, etc aren't worth the paper they're printed on. They aren't real as some people are now finding out. You can't eat them. You can't live in them. You can't raise a garden on them. You can't even get much heat when you burn a stack of them. The only thing they're good for is wiping. It is unfortunate that so many have been scammed by so few to buy into so little but it was all driven by greed. I lack any empathy for them. They gambled and should not be bailed out. I heartily resent that my hard earned money will be handed over to reinforce the wrong lessons in the heads of those blokes.

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SugarMtnFarm.com -- Pastured Pigs, Poultry, Sheep, Dogs and Kids