how to get 105 degrees in a home for three hours

DQ · #81 10/28/08, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Wheaton

105 is not an uncommon naturally occurring temp.

Just because something is naturally occuring doesn't automatically make it perfectly safe!!!!the argument that 105 occurs naturally and because of that it won't cause anything to off gas is a little bizarre. and anyway we are talking about off gassing some things that are not naturally occuring in the kinds of quantiies that are used in houses. did you know formaldehyde is probably used in your flooring, cabinets, countertops any paneling etc.. in your home? some of your clothing and all of your bedding are probably full of flame retardent chemicals that are released into the air in increasing quantities starting at about 85 degrees. a little hormone that interferes with hatching flea eggs doesn't sound so bad. the shampoo you wash your hair with is probably far more dangerous as is getting in a hot car that also has some nasty chemicals.

its easy to go overboard and lose your sense of relativity. although natural products and methods are typically less troublesome than chemical or (hormonal in this case) modern remedies. just remember that fleas have been around a loooong time and the solutions we have now today were developed because the "natural solutions" available before were not adequate. you are doing what people did for centuries with limited or no success. you might be as thrilled about chemical solutions as people were when they were developed if your sweet kitty had bubonic plague, or your bed was full of bed bugs busily transmiting hepatitus and various other diseases to you while you slept. despite being pretty nasty even ddt was considered a godsend to people living in malaria/mosquito infested areas and thankfully there are alternatives now that are safer.

mamita · #82 10/28/08, 09:27 AM

I know one thing after reading this.....I'm glad I'm not your cat.

I hate chemicals also, but I hate fleas more. Advantix works for me, and my animals aren't stressed out. cats are sensitive creatures......RUN, KITTY...RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PhilJohnson · #83 10/28/08, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DQ

Just because something is naturally occuring doesn't automatically make it perfectly safe!!!!

Agreed. One can get skin cancer by exposing themselves to the sun too much and one can get carcinogens from eating certain kinds of ferns.

Lizza · #84 10/28/08, 09:47 AM

Paul, listen, I am no proponent of chemicals, at all. I am reading The Hundred Year Lie right now, these are the kinds of things I read. I honestly do not understand your aversion to Frontline. Put it on the pet and toss it outside, bring it in that night or the even the next day, you aren't going to get poisoning from your cat and your cat will be fine, it's a cat you know. If you are worried wash the site you put it on with a washcloth and soap. You honestly probably get more poisoning from sleeping on your bed at night. Out gassing IS real, I'm not sure you are weighing the options in a balanced way.

Paul Wheaton · #85 10/28/08, 12:08 PM

It begins!

This is so exciting!

The heat is on! It will remain on for about 9 hours. The cat is left in there with a bowl of water and I'm 20 miles away working.

RH at about 60 degrees was about 55%. So I expect that the RH will hover around 20% to 25% throughout the day killing all fleas at all stages. It is possible that any fleas that are on the cat might not be impacted, but we will find out.

If this works, it will be amazingly convenient, economical and eco friendly.

rambler · #86 10/28/08, 12:26 PM

Someday soon I"m going to have to read the rest of this thread - only read your message. This should be good!!!!

I have no clue as to what you are up to.....

With a house, you need to concern yourself with the temperature difference it can sustain. I think you are in a pretty mild climate, so your house likely only has insulation & heat to up the temp 40-50 degrees over outside air? Here in southern MN it can be 20 or 30 degrees below zero, so my house needs to maintain about 90 - 100 degrees over the outside air.

Those summer days if it hits 100 degrees, it is pretty easy to have it 105 inside, not much effort. So, very easy to do.

This time of year - it was 20 degrees this morning, up to 30 now, so it would be pretty hard & impractical to make it 80 or so degrees above that.

Anyhow, your problem is creating the temperature difference. What is the outside temp you will be starting with? 105 could be pretty easy, or impossible, depending on where you are starting from.

Doing one room would be somewhat easier. Doing the whole house - Greenpeace, tree huggers, and perhaps PETA (cats? You are involving cats in this????) should be all over you for wasting resources.

Creating a 35-40 degree temp rise over what is _normal_ in a house and doing is _safely_ will be a real challenge. If you need the 105 degrees more or less exactly for 3 hours, that too will be a challenge - keeping it from going higher (or dropping back down fairly quickly) once you get there will take some controls.

--->Paul

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Wheaton

I'm crazy about experiments.

I keep thinking there are simpler, more effective ways to do almost everything. That's a big reason why I love, love, love the homesteading lifestyle.

Today's mission: I want to get the inside of a house to 105 degrees for three hours. And I want to leave a cat in there as part of it.

Now, this is all part of an experiment, and for those of you that are familiar with some of my past experiments can probably guess why I'm doing this. And, I'm happy to spell it out again here, but for now I would rather not say because then everybody would want to talk about that instead (usually with comments about what an idiot/fool/clodhopper/whatever that I continue to be) and for the moment, I would like to focus on just the 105 challenge rather than my lack of brain power; lack of decent breeding; etc.

So! 105 degrees. The house in question has electric heat, plus a small, open fireplace. A raging fire in the fireplace does little to heat more than the area around the fireplace. I think this is because it is sucking air out of the room as it burns. I turned all of the thermostats in the house up to their max and put a thermometer in the house on a 60 degree day. Max temp was 85 degrees.

I once tried to use portable, electric heaters to do the same experiment, but their own thermostat caps at around 90 degrees.

I would really like to come up with something that others could easily repeat. Hopefully for less than $50.

So, now it starts to get challenging ... I thought about running the stove/oven - but I think the heat would not permeate the house. I thought about some of those propane heaters that shoot out something like 50,000 BTU's, but then you have to get everybody out of the house for three hours and I would prefer to come up with a solution for leaving the cat in (that comes back to part of the problem that is trying to be solved).

Although this aspect does concern me, as people often have propane ovens/stoves and they will run them in an air tight house. Granted, they won't run as much - but still, I think it's worrisome. But, that's probably a discussion for another day.

So ... I could take apart a portable electric heater and modify the thermostat so that will go up to 110. If I had two or three of these, that should do the trick. This could work, but it wouldn't be easily repeatable for others.

It would be better if I could find some of these where they had a thermostat that would go up to 110 - but so far I haven't been able to find anything.

Help me Obee One, you're my only hope ... oop! I mean, help me fellow homesteaders, I'm stuck again!

Lizza · #87 10/28/08, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Wheaton

It begins!

This is so exciting!

The heat is on! It will remain on for about 9 hours. The cat is left in there with a bowl of water and I'm 20 miles away working.

RH at about 60 degrees was about 55%. So I expect that the RH will hover around 20% to 25% throughout the day killing all fleas at all stages. It is possible that any fleas that are on the cat might not be impacted, but we will find out.

If this works, it will be amazingly convenient, economical and eco friendly.

Maybe I missed it but how are you going to know it reached 105 degrees for 3 hours? What are your plans when the fleas return?

Sorry Paul but I do not find this convenient, economical or eco friendly but to each his own. Let us know how the cat did.

Common Tator · #88 10/28/08, 01:26 PM

Put the house on a very large trailer and haul it to Death Valley in August.

How Do I · #89 10/28/08, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HermitJohn

I use frontline on my dogs and cats. Cats need very low dose of frontline. Frontline dose is by weight. I buy frontline for extra large dog then use needless syringe to parcel it out. Gotta love use of extensive packaging and marketting to maximize profits. Shame they dont just sell it bulk in glass bottle with syringe taped to the side, but sure that would really cut into profits. Anyway half milliliter is plenty for average adult cat and thats size Frontline is sold in specifically for cats and I have went upto one milliliter on large cat. Never had one show slightest symptoms of toxicity not even my 19 year old cat in weakened condition. But like humans I'm sure there are individual cats that are very sensitive to certain chemicals.

By way this works with chemical in Frontline, (100 g/L Fipronil & 120 g/L (S)-Methoprene), its same formula and concentration for dogs and cats just different dosages based on body weight. Other flea medications that use other chemicals can be toxic to cats. Dont ever use the perithrin flea dope sold for use on dogs in Walmart and such places on cats (its very toxic to them) and its not that effective on dogs at the recommended dosage.

Advantage works the same way, by weight. We used to buy the blue packs, for large dogs from some guy in Australia for super-cheap. Had a syringe and I don't remember the dosage at the moment, but it used to work super! Fleas would be gone within an hour. Sadly, he ended up closing up shop. Now 50 lb. bags DE fits the bill. We only had one cat that developed reactions to the med (foaming at the mouth). Not bad out of 45 cats.

With that said, I still admire Paul for experimenting.

Quote:

mamita - I know one thing after reading this.....I'm glad I'm not your cat.

I hate chemicals also, but I hate fleas more. Advantix works for me, and my animals aren't stressed out. cats are sensitive creatures......RUN, KITTY...RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pearl B · #90 10/28/08, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Common Tator

Put the house on a very large trailer and haul it to Death Valley in August.

:

puddlejumper007 · #91 10/28/08, 03:56 PM

why experment with the cat, experment on your self

Bonnie L · #92 10/28/08, 05:01 PM

An easy way - tho not exactly cheap - is to get rid of the carpet. Without a carpet to breed in, the cats don't have fleas.

Lizza · #93 10/28/08, 09:25 PM

So, how are the cat and the fleas? Inquiring minds want to know. Like I said I don't think it was the best idea but I do hope it all turned out like you had hoped.

outofmire · #94 10/28/08, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonnie L

An easy way - tho not exactly cheap - is to get rid of the carpet. Without a carpet to breed in, the cats don't have fleas.

I hate to disagree but we have had fleas and don't have carpet or rugs.

Wolf mom · #95 10/28/08, 10:53 PM

Actually Paul is correct. Heat is now the "IN" way to kill pests.

Bedbugs have to be heated up to 135 degrees. Suposedly it's the only way to kill them. Let me tell ya, chemically "bombing" a house won't work.

Having lived in Phoenix for about 30 years, the dry heat is why there's no fleas, ticks, yes - fleas no.

As far as 105 degrees, many a summer day hit that and way above. Dogs and cats all survived.

What he's doing sounds cruel, but it will probably work, and the cat won't die. My concern is that he stated he'd be at work - not nearby or in the house to make sure....

Wonder what his electricity bill will be???

Paul Wheaton · #96 10/28/08, 11:28 PM

Temp got up to 86, but the RH only got down to 47%. Not low enough.

We could put flea traps out tonight, but I want to try again and see if I can get the RH lower.

Cat is fine. No sign of fleas yet, but I suspect they are fine too.

Pink_Carnation · #97 10/29/08, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonnie L

An easy way - tho not exactly cheap - is to get rid of the carpet. Without a carpet to breed in, the cats don't have fleas.

That isn't true....we moved into a house with wood floors and there were tons of fleas that we had to get rid of. This was without furniture or carpeting.

shagerman · #98 10/29/08, 08:39 AM

putting a cat threw this would be torture. now if you would get fleas on you and stay in there for 3 hours that sounds like a nice deal, but why do animals have to be in a test? take it to the vet and get it taken care of, the whole thing sounds rediculous to me,

Cara · #99 10/29/08, 09:15 AM

I've missed a good part of this conversation, so if this has already been suggested....sorry. What if you used one of the industrial size heaters that look like a jet engine? My parents use them in their door plant and I don't think there is a thermo on them. Other than that, I think Grandma's house at Christmas...big woodstove, 30 people and lots of nice dry fir....maybe you need more body heat? Maybe 30 cats, since their natural temp is higher already?

watcher · #**100** 10/29/08, 10:29 AM

You can rent all kinds of heaters which will put out more than enough heat to raise the temp to 105. Check with your local rental store.