Making cider and ciderkin
 

Tried out my new (to me) cider press yesterday. Saturday morning I was up bright and early and at the local apple orchard before daybreak to pick up wind drops.. Got 42 gallons of apples for $15. I would have gotten more but I had to be somewhere and was pressed for time. The apples were a mix of Jonathons, Red Delicious and Winesaps.

First thing yesterday morning I cleaned the press and all the various pieces of equipment I would be using. I had a large tub filled with water (changed it out several times during the course of the day). to soak/rinse the apples in.

While researching the mix of apples for cider I came across references to ciderkin which was supposedly widely consumed during colonial times. Basically this is a second pressing of the apple pieces which yields a tasty drink that is not as rich or sweet as the (first) cider pressing. I basically added back the same amount of water as the cider that was squuzed in the first pressing. I also drained the liquid and allowed it to seep back down through the apple pieces several times.

The cider is excellent and I have set aside 8 gallons for fermentation into hard cider. We have been drinking ciderkin (chilled in ice water) and expect to do so in copious quantities for the next week or so. I actually like it better than cider in some respects as it isn't as rich/sweet so I can drink it instead of water. If I tried drinking that much cider I think it would be a bit much.

I don't know if I'm up to doing another day of pressing this year. It's an all day affair when you include cleaning up.

The one thing I haven't figured out is what to do with the apple chips after the second pressing. I called a friend to see if they wanted the pressing for stheir chickens but didn't reach them. I ended up dumping the presings back where we do our composting. If the deer go after, fine. Otherwise I expect they will compost down nicely.

Mike

Hey Mike, which orchard did you end up going to?

Do you have any pictures or your total yields? How many bushels is 42 gallons? Is it 8 gallons to a bushel?

I went to Richardsons. 8 gallons to a bushel. The reason I stated it in gallons rather than bushels is I was using those 6 gallon containers I got at the kidron auction a few years back (thanks again for helping me with those).

I didn't take any pics. I was too busy grinding and pressing and hauling and...you know.

If I'm going to make larger quantities of cider in the future I need to come up with a powered grinder. That was more tiring than the actual pressing.

I'm also wondering if I can get sweet cider to stay sweet longer if I use camden tablets but don't add any yeast (as if I were going to make hard cider not using wild yeast).


edited to add total yields: About 9 gallons and change of cider and about the same of ciderkin.
Mike

So what was your total yield then?

Edited: Thanks I saw your edit...

So around 1.75 gallons to a bushel. Pretty decent. I am looking to set up a secondary grinder. (Having kids, the grinding part is "fun" for us... for now.)

Where did you guys get your respective cider presses?

Mike found his on craigslist I believe and I found mine at a roadside sale.

Oh Mike, how was Richardson's? Still plenty of windfall around? I know the Amish will come it at some time and clean that place right out.

We use a new stainless steel garbage disposal as a grinder. We have to cut up the apples but we get a nice mushy mess to press and we get about 2 gallons per bushel of apples, depending on the variety etc. We did about 10 gallons the other day in just under 4 hours including clean up. It is a bit faster with a 3rd person to run the press while 2 of us wash and cut apples. We have an old 2 compartment metal laundry tub on caster that we use to wash apples, first in one compartment, then rinse in the second.

Hey Jim, I've seen those SS Garbage disposals used. From my research they overheat after about 15 minutes of continuous use and you have to wait for cool down to reset. Do you find that true?

Just to interject, I made a cider press from scraps of stuff I had laying around and made cider this weekend too. I was unclear about expected yields but am glad to see what you folks got. You can see some pics I took of the whole job as we did it on My blog. Search for cider on my blog if you don't see it on the first page. This was our first attempt at making cider...lots of fun!

Hey baldy, check out my blog for the commercial cider press trip my family took. The owner says he gets 3 gallons to a bushel. I talk a bit about that here, and it's why I am looking for a manual secondary grinder/processor to extract even more juice.

Here are some videos I uploaded when I had a wifi connection of the commercial press in action.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...ber2008239.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...ber2008241.jpg

(I hope I have them in order but with dial up, I can't tell... lol.)

PS baldy, I added you to my blog roll. Nice blog you have there.

Thanks SS. I added you to mine too. I like your blog as well. I liked the info you had on the commercial stuff too. Pretty interesting! My wife is getting more apples today so we'll see how we do tonight! I will post more details tomorrow depending on how it goes!

Seedspreader - I just read part of your blog and see that you moved from somewhere near Medina, Ohio. I live off Medina Line Rd, in Bath Township. Small world!

Since I have fired up my press, I have learned a few important things. First, after you grind your apples, the longer you wait to press the apples, the more juice you get. I have noticed when they are really uniformly brown, they have more juice. The press I built will hold about 3-4 bushel ground. If I wait at least 10-20 minutes between cranks, that also yields more juice. Patience is the hardest part of making cider though. I usually get around 2.5 to 3 gallons per bushel. I have tried adding water back in to the pulp, and it does yield a good tasting but less sweet juice. I read in a book that a blend of hand picked apples that have had a few weeks to mellow, like stored in boxes, make the best cider. So I have been storing up my apples and only have 3 more trees to pick before I start again. We are going to freeze at least 50 gallons for the winter. Also, if you come across Penzeys spices, try thier mulling spice, It makes the best hot cider drink I have had in a long while.

mdh68, interesting about waiting to get more juice. I may try that with our next bag of apples. We get covered up with yellow jackets if we wait too long though. They can smell it a mile away!

Cool Tim, I had a teacher (that after I graduated from High School) that I spent time at his house. His house was an old church on the corner of Medina Line and... was it granger road??? It was bath also.

His name is Marty Ryan.

I agree on the patience...

Something else I remember is they used to let the apples freeze once too, back in the old days. We will be picking and pressing more this week, so we are going to try to improve our yields a couple of ways this week.

I pass that house every day on the way to work - yes, right on the corner of Medina Line and Grainger Rd. I don't know the folks that live there, but have seen small kids playing in the yard. That is neat.

You guys have inspired me to add building a cider press to the list of winter projects. We go to an orchard down off Everett Rd. towards Medina called "Pick and Save". Great place.

The place where Mike and I (used to for me) get our apples is Richardsons on Rt. 42 south of Medina, north of Lodi. Good place.

I've never made cider before, but now have a lot more apples than a body can handle solo -- or even with her true love!

Can anyone explain the process? When you say, "Windfall" apples, you mean, of course the ones that are on the ground. But how damaged/bruised/insect bitten can they be and still be usable?

Muller's loaned us a press, but Nick has to fab up a part so it will be usable. Hopefully, we'll be able to get back to The Farm one more weekend before our daughter's wedding, and clean up all those lovely, lovely apples. :)

Now I have to go process Asian Pears.

I personally will cut out bad spots (bruises/soft spots) on my windfall apples. Some people say not to use them due to bacterial count, but (and Mike can attest to this) the windfalls at "You Pick" type orchards are usually in good shape and not bruised at all. We picked up 20 some bushels a couple of years ago and they were as good as any apples you would be buying in the store.

But you have to make that decision... we've never had a problem.

We can our cider (a lot of people will freeze it for freshness) so I've never worried too much about it. And while it's fresh, I certainly don't worry about it. Check out Baldy's blog and mine for a better understanding of the actual pressing. Go to walmart and buy some of the nylon porous material and make bags for your press (that's what we do) at it works well. You can buy bags (well normal people with normal size presses can) but it's so easy to make them and so much cheaper I don't know why people would.

Oh, pony, mix some of your pears in with your apple cider... it's DELICIOUS!

Thanks, SS.

BTW, do you think the Asian pears will work as nicely as the Bartletts and other types?

I'm still researching recipes to can them. We have about 8 trees in full ripeness, and we were fighting off the wasps and the stupid (fill in the blank) asian lady beetles. Man! Those beetles bore into the fruit with gusto, and pile in on top of each other. Then the wasps come along and eat the fruit with the beetle "sprinkles" on them.

Ugh.

We're going to have a lot of clearing and cleaning up to do in that orchard! Hope we get there before the snow flies!

We looked for obvious bad spots but a little knick or small brown spot was no big deal for us (i.e. we pressed almost everything except the really bad ones). We just composted the bad ones. Like seedspreader said, if you can it, it's not a big deal, though it is a risk I suppose if you drink it raw. We drank plenty raw and are still kicking but use your own judgement on that. We bought apples that were windfall or small or slightly bruised, etc and had no problems.

I cut out the really bad spots but if it is only a little soft in a spot I don't worry about it. Because I use a cleaver to quarter the apples I can see if one is bad on the inside.

As Bob pointed out, the windfalls at a pick yourself can be rpetty nice. In fact, many of the Red Delicious apples looked so good that I was concerned they would say I was picking them off the trees.

I think I'm going to experiment with putting the pressing cloth in my 6 gallon buckets and then just filling filling them up, putting covers on, letting them sit and then going back and pressing later in the day or the next day. With multiple bags it should be real easy to just lift them up and set them in the press.

At the moment I only have one pressing bag though.

Mike

We used to make cider in boy scouts , you can make it with some pritty nasty looking appls tastes fine , many orchards at lease around here will only let you have windfalls for live stock or deer as every one is very concerned about ecoli , back in the 80s-early 90's we would use all wind falls for cider and give them a cood washing with a dash of bleach in the water then rinse again i don't recall our exact yeild.
the troop still does it but by the mid 90's they were picking the apples off the trees and testing for ecoli freezing the galons of cider kept them for a long time.

funny used to be most every one must of had a tolerance for ecoli , considering in the 19 century 90% of dust was manuer , in the 21 century they say 90% of dust is synthetic fibers , petrochemicals , and home cleaning chemicals

i know i have eaten ecoli , cause i saw the tests for the cider , as long as not more than a certain percentage of the cells floreced under a black light it was considered a a low enougth level to be save while still pressent , this was of cource after the apples were picked from the trees washed and all components were bleached that there would still be a very low concentration i can only imagine what it was when we were making cider with windfalls some with ants crawling out of them as we tossed them in the apple box

When I first made cider with an old girlfriend, we went up into her grandparents' pasture, dodging the horse crap all the way. Like you said GCPete, we tossed everything into the bucket and never died. I guess if we are all more sensitive to e.coli now, it's better not to tempt fate. Still, it was an awesome bit of fun and we never thought a bit about it. We stopped making it (together at least!) in about 1991 I think.

I put up some more pics of the cider that we made and of the taste test. My blog address is in my signature if you want to check it out

We took all the noise insulation covers off the disposal, and cut the apples into quarters or smaller. Once in awhile it does overheat, maybe once in 2 hours if I am not careful. I have learned to recognize the sound it makes when the motor is starting to overload, and if I quickly unjam the disposal--it is usually some apple chunks just spinning around, so I poke around in it with my wooden plunger--it doesn't overheat at all in a 2 or 3 hour long session of grinding and pressing.
We have a computer fan blowing on the disposal, too, which helps keep it cool, and I am planning on adding some fins cut from aluminum roof flashing material and held to the case of the motor with large hose clamps to see if that keeps it cooler.

WisJim,
How do you go about keeping the insides of the unit clean when you are all done? I mean, how do you ensure every last bit of stuff is out so you don't end up with a mess? Just curious. I may be interested in getting a similar setup

Thanks Jim, I always thought of wrapping copper piping and running water around the electric motor and then continuing the copper piping to a washing station for the apples... but I don't know if I am that ambitious.

I am thinking of finding the wringer off a wringer-washer and running my mash (pomace) through it after it goes out of the apple grinder.

I would like to keep it all manual and non-electric... but who knows when I run out of child labor that could change.

I was looking at an old wringer washer when I was trying to build something to crush grapes. It turned out that the one I found had a coating on the rollers that would tend to flake off. So look it over real good before you use it.

Ok, so here's the question for all of you cider makers; How many gallons of juice will I get from 400 pounds of ground apples? I just started grinding and had to quit cause I ran out of buckets. Tommorow I will start grinding again after I start pressing. I am going to let the pulp set overnight to see if I gain any more juice. I hope the pulp continues to brown even though my buckets are airtight. One more question for you experienced cider makers; do you get a better pressing with a half full basket or a full one? I'll report back sometime tommorow.

on keeping the garbage disposal unit clean-- we just run a lot of water through it, unplug it, check it out and use a bottle brush inside, re-plug it in and run more water through it til it runs out clean. I spose a little soap and bleach would help sanitize further for when you store it away.
on overheating-- normally for disposal use in ones' sink, one runs water whilst running the unit. In addition to running a fan on the unit, after running a measured amount of apples through it, I removed the five gallon bucket from under the spout and put another five gallon bucket under the spout and ran about a gallon of cold water through the unit and shut it off whilst pressing out the cider. It only overheated on us once and while we were waiting for it to cool down, we used the food processor.
It seemed to work for us and we did two pick up loads of apples this week, with several families working together. We used a mix of apples--red & yellow delicious, honey crisp, Jonathon, Empires-- and some we didn't know the variety, but the squeezins are oh so good!
I don't really know how many gallons we got out of all that, I was only there for the first day, but that day after doing almost one pickup load, I know there was at least 30-49 gallons.

I assume that you mean the garbage disposal that we use to grind the apples. I hose it out good with water, holding my hand over the outlet so it fills with water then releasing it a couple of times, too. We found that running a tray of ice cubes through it cleans it out pretty well, too. Then we put the little cover thing back over the disposal opening until we use it again.

I have thought of that too, but we don't run the water that often when pressing apples, but I suspect that a slight trickle of water would do it, if you got the copper tubing bonded to the housing well enough. There are some conductive epoxies that might be worth considering.
Or maybe getting a bigger commercial disposal would be the solution, but I like the idea of the $100+ disposal available at the local hardware store.