gun people..question..

Quint · #41 10/13/08, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarbush

I would guess because if you saw off a shotgun to make it concealable you go to jail...

You're right. You're guessing because it does no such a thing. You can shorten the barrel to 18 inches with an overall length of 26 inches. Any shorter and it must be registered with the Federal Government and you must pay the 200 dollar federal transfer tax.

Also do know how wide those little shot capsules spread? Do you know how little mass they have, how slow they are (BB gun level of slow) and how little penetration they have and how they aren't the least bit effective at stopping an assailant?

Quint · #42 10/13/08, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSYORK

The law enforcement in our area use either Glock 40 caliber or Sig 40's. They're both good guns.

Personally I think if you can shoot a .40 you might as well be shooting a .45. I find the recoil of a .40 to be unpleasant. To me it is harsh and sharp. A .45 is more of a push or a shove and not at all uncontrollable.

sugarbush · #43 10/13/08, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wind in Her Hair

you're confusing concealed carry and home defense. I am certain she was not talking about carrying a shotgun as a concealed carry weapon - even though she may have learned this in concealed carry class.

I am picturing a group of women in long black trench coats with sawed off shotguns tucked under them walking slowly towards the OK Corral A twinkle in their eyes as the sun dances off of their retinas.....As they draw back the coats to reveal their side arms you can't help but notice the homesteading today T-shirts that they are wearing underneath.

sugarbush · #44 10/13/08, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quint

You're right. You're guessing because it does no such a thing. You can shorten the barrel to 18 inches with an overall length of 26 inches. Any shorter and it must be registered with the Federal Government and you must pay the 200 dollar federal transfer tax.

It is called sarcasm... I will try and remember the smilie next time so you don't get confused.

**Cabin Fever** · #45 10/13/08, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarbush

I am picturing a group of women in long black trench coats with sawed off shotguns tucked under them walking slowly towards the OK Corral A twinkle in their eyes as the sun dances off of their retinas.....As they draw back the coats to reveal their side arms you can't help but notice the homesteading today T-shirts that they are wearing underneath.

When did you meet WIHH? She has that exact outfit! You have only one thing wrong. She's smart enough to make sure the sun is in the other guy's eyes during a shoot out.

MWG · #46 10/13/08, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf mom

Actually, what I was taught in a CC class, if someone breaks into your home, get on your knees behind the bed so you are protected, call 911 keep the phone on, brace your arms, aim toward the door & holler " I have called the police. I have a gun. Do not come into the bedroom." Never, ever go after the inruder.

Hmm, I have to disagree with the letting them know you have a gun.

texican · #47 10/13/08, 11:27 PM

Unless you love lawyers, judges, and possible jail time, wounding someone isn't a wise idea. If you must use force to protect yourself, it's best to have only one version of the tale. I've been told this by friendly LEO's.

Throw away the birdshot... I've had trouble killing a rat with the stuff (out of a .44, no less)... go with hollowpoints... there are some very good hollowpoints, based on the old starpoint design...

I was taught to never ever point a firearm at someone unless you planned on shooting them. Point a gun at someone, and you will have some explaining to do, to some LEO and judge...

sugarbush · #48 10/14/08, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texican

Unless you love lawyers, judges, and possible jail time, wounding someone isn't a wise idea. If you must use force to protect yourself, it's best to have only one version of the tale. I've been told this by friendly LEO's.

I agree....Regardless of the tale be prepared to get charged with something and spend some time in jail. Self defence is not a reliable defence anymore....

If you have the stomach for it you have a means ahead of time to dispose of ALL evidence. At least that way if you get caught and go to jail you are going for something you are actually guilty of.

**Cabin Fever** · #49 10/14/08, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarbush

I agree....Regardless of the tale be prepared to get charged with something and spend some time in jail. Self defence is not a reliable defence anymore....

If you have the stomach for it you have a means ahead of time to dispose of ALL evidence. At least that way if you get caught and go to jail you are going for something you are actually guilty of.

And remember this, after the use of deadly force is conducted by yourself in self-defense or in the defense of another, the police are not your friend. You are now a murder suspect and will be treated as such (even when the shooting is righteous). Don't provide any information to the investigating officer without representation by an attorney. Even police officers are told to "not cooperate" with the investigation after a police shooting until they have legal representation at thier side.

PrairieFireFarm · #50 10/14/08, 03:57 PM

Hey - I used to teach handgun classes for women, and I used to shoot IPSC courses, which was really very fun. I've known only a few women who preferred Glocks, mostly because our hands are smaller, fingers shorter, and Glock tends to make theirs on a bit of a bigger frame/reach. They do have nice balance, and are lightweight, which matters when you have to carry it on your hip 10 hours a day.

Everyone who said to try them out is right. Just like a pair of boots, everyone is built a little different, and different weights and frame sizes are just gonna feel different to everyone. The advice of a revolver for seldom used, home defense gun is pretty good, too.

I wish I could do my classes again. That was really fun.

texican · #51 10/14/08, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wind in Her Hair

and I was taught never ever to point a gun at someone unless you are resolved to killing them.

You "know" that's what I meant... I was just trying to say the "nice" word... My 'tools' make very very large holes...

Dead methheads tell no tales...

Quint · #52 10/15/08, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

And remember this, after the use of deadly force is conducted by yourself in self-defense or in the defense of another, the police are not your friend. You are now a murder suspect and will be treated as such (even when the shooting is righteous). Don't provide any information to the investigating officer without representation by an attorney. Even police officers are told to "not cooperate" with the investigation after a police shooting until they have legal representation at thier side.

Best advice given on this thread.

Just explain to officer that you're the victim and the deceased is the assailant and that you decline to answer any questions until you've had the opportunity to speak with council.

Having had a very close family member have to deal with a situation like this even with a sympathetic PD I can definitively say that CF's advice is spot on.

While not exactly dealing with a deadly force situation, everyone should probably watch these presentations by James Duane, a professor at Regent Law School and a former defense attorney and Officer George Bruch. It deals with talking to the police for any reason. Extremely valuable information that may keep you or a loved one from getting into trouble unintentionally.

Part One
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...e+police&hl=en

Part Two
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...e+police&hl=en

mamita · #53 10/15/08, 07:09 AM

thanks so much, everyone! great info, and I really appreciate it. the only reason I'd consider a gun is if someone actually came and got past the dogs. they'd have to shoot the dogs, so I know I'd have a big ole problem. my shepherd isn't socialized, and he's extremely protective (even hubby would never rough play, and my dog is ok with him) don't worry...he is also a liability that I'm extremely careful of. he can't be bribed with food, either so as I say...a true intruder that gets past both means it's time to take serious action. that said...I've always said I'd rather be prosecuted than dead, so I'd take my chances IF indeed someone broke in and shot the dogs. it is amazing what people aren't aware of, tho.....things like if a person was trying to break in, but fell thru a broken step...they can sue you. etc. you best be sure the person was IN your house, and if they don't seem armed..you don't shoot anybody. they must be armed and forced entry into your home (around here).

anyway...I wrote down all the ones the gals mentioned to give a try.

I'm heading off to the dentist soon for a crown....that kind of took my gun money right now, but it's still in the plan.

for the person that suggested I move.........uh...seriously................you gots to be kidding me. guess I just don't know of that happy rainbow place where crime doesn't exist.

hey dude...it can happen ANYWHERE you live.

Hooligan · #54 10/15/08, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wind in Her Hair

- including a Glock .9mm. I did not like it at all.

In fact, it had been purchased NEW the day before, it shot 20 rounds, then jammed. It shot 1 more round, then jammed. Then one more round, then jammed. I had always been told that Glocks are infamous for jamming - and when your life is on the line - those jamming odds were enough to convince me that is an unreliable pistol as ever I have seen. Nope, no Glock in my future. (The instructor said that Glocks sometimes just have issues with ammo - and although this was premium ammo - it did not like it at all.

I also shot a Kel-Tec .380 and it was the tiniest cheapest lightest little piece of nothing (6.6 ounces) - its small but SO small I couldn't hold it comfortably it literally disappeared in my hand. My fingers had no place to go!

No disrespect but Glocks are noted for being one of the most reliable handguns ever made. There are many cases of extreme abuse of Glocks which still functioned just fine when asked to. I can think of two reasons why you experienced the problems you did. Any new firearm needs to be broken in. Especially a semi-automatic. Most will not judge the reliability of a semi-automatic hand gun until there at least a couple hundred rounds though it. This allows the surfaces of the moving parts to self polish and any burrs left from manufacture will be polished out. I have Keltec P3AT for which it is recommended that the owner do a "fluff and buff" which is simply polishing the appropriate surfaces with a fine sandpaper and buffing wheel.

The second, and most likely, is a problem usually referred to as "limp wristing". This is caused by not adequately locking out your wrist which causes your wrist to absorb some of the recoil energy which is necessary to cycle the weapon. This can be exacerbated by having hands to small to grip the pistol properly as well as shooting a brand new pistol. All semi-autos are susceptible to this but Glocks seem to be more so, maybe due to the grip angle.

I regularly shoot the cheapest practice ammo I can get out of my Glocks, either Winchester white box or steel cased Wolf with no problems.

I don't want to sound like a "Glock guy", I also own Kimber, Keltec, Browning and Springfield, but Glocks do have a rock solid reputation for reliability. If I had time to grab one handgun on the way out it would be the Glock for sure.

pheasantplucker · #55 10/20/08, 08:21 PM

IMO Glocks are overrated (though I'll admit I've only shot them, never owned one). A .357 / .38 revolver is available in a variety of grip sizes, and a revolver is just as deadly for protection, and not as likely to "hide" a round and you not see it. Just remember if you choose a .38 or larger round...the smaller the frame and consequently lighter the gun, then the more brutal will be the felt recoil...especially in a revolver as opposed to a semi-auto. I'd still opt for the revolver. Good luck and take a class to become comfortable and safe with it.

Cascade Failure · #56 10/21/08, 12:54 AM

For a new shooter a revolver can be an excellent choice.

I love my Glocks. End of story. However, I feel that their lack of an active safety can put a new shooter, with their inherent lack of trigger discipline, at risk of an accidental discharge.

Quint · #57 10/21/08, 01:53 AM

As far as Glocks go I've had extremely good luck with them. I carried a Glock 21 (.45ACP) for years and shot umpteen thousands of rounds out of it with never a bit of trouble. I unhesitatingly trusted my life to it. I did sell it recently however. I found that I was carrying and shooting my Sig Sauer pistols more often. I just love Sig pistols. And their rifles for that matter.

I'm going to get another hi-capacity .45 again I just haven't decided from whom yet. I don't think it will be another Glock though.

beowoulf90 · #58 10/21/08, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cc

I keep a shotgun (16 gauge) under the edge of the bed and carry a 380 Beretta in my purse. Guess if they are in my house and not supposed to be there I don't want to take any chances of them getting back up. That sounds bad but, like you, I am a small woman and DH always worked away from home and would be home just on weekends so I just wanted to feel safe.

No it doesn't sound bad... We have a 12 ga with buckshot sitting inthe bedroom just in case some criminal decides to try and harm us in anyway shape or form. I also carry a 45acp or a 9mm depending on where I'm going or what I'm doing

pheasantplucker · #59 10/21/08, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beowoulf90

No it doesn't sound bad... We have a 12 ga with buckshot sitting inthe bedroom just in case some criminal decides to try and harm us in anyway shape or form. I also carry a 45acp or a 9mm depending on where I'm going or what I'm doing

IMO buckshot would not be my first choice...I think you would have less chance of shot running through drywall etc. if you opted for #6 or #7 shot. Just as deadly at close range.

beowoulf90 · #60 10/21/08, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pheasantplucker

IMO buckshot would not be my first choice...I think you would have less chance of shot running through drywall etc. if you opted for #6 or #7 shot. Just as deadly at close range.

The problem with #6 or #7 shot is it doesn't have the penetration you need.

Yes it MAY kill the intruder, but MAY NOT kill them also. Now with buckshot you have the penetration and it WILL kill the intruder. I've seen tests done comparing these to each other and also have seen reports where a drug crazed intruder was just bloody after being shot with #6 or #7 birdshot and now even more enraged....

Also I don't have to worry about going through the drywall in my home. Most of the walls are stone covered with horse hair plaster. I would have a better chance of going through the wood floors first..

I'll see if I can find the tests post teh link if I find it.