zoning & minimum house sizes
 

DW & I are in the process of buying a 40 acre piece in northern MI.

The county we're building in is broken up into "townships." Each township has its own zoning ordinances. The township "our" property is in has a minimum house size of 840sqft.

This is larger than we were planning on building (or having built), mainly due to the cost. We received a "turn-key" (everything included) quote on a 600sqft house of $55,000. Anything bigger would push the cost above what we want to pay.

Has anyone found a way around this kind of zoning restriction? Are mobile homes normally as big as 840sqft? Any ideas on what we can do? THANKS!

Here's the exact wording in the ordinance:

"A single family dwelling shall have a minimum of 840 square feet of living space. In the event that a dwelling is a mobile home as defined herein, each mobile home shall be installed with the wheels removed. Additionally, no dwelling shall have any exposed towing mechanism, undercarriage or chassis."

They do this to protect their property tax revenue stream than for any safety reasons. Small houses dont generate near the taxes. Not sure in MI but in some states mobile homes with wheels are taxed as vehicles and have vehicle title etc. Probably not as much tax possible that way. They want to be able to tax them as houses.

How to get around it? Why not go talk to the building inspector, most will be forthright about what they will accept and what they wont especially if its a very rural township. Whole different thing dealing with simular dept in high population area.

it's your property ain't it? If they say anything ask them who pays the mortgage. Unless its them them they can go fly a kite.

If you're less stand offish you can alway beg forgiveness instead of asking to start with.

Those laws are pretty tough to beat, usually, unless you can afford a fancy lawyer. I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask (nicely) if there is any other recourse. Other options would be to put your own 'sweat equity' into the home to lower the cost, if you are able. Almost anybody can work a paint roller! You could also have the house built to a lower standard, leaving out anything that isn't legally required, until you can afford it or DIY. For instance, I found out that a plywood sub-floor is perfectly legal in many areas- slap some cheap paint on it and call it good. Where our property is in SC, you have to have a heating 'device' that can keep the house at 68 degrees, but a plain old wood stove meets the legal requirement- certainly a lot cheaper than a central furnace.
I really hate government interference in things like this. Our first house was 800 sq ft, and it was fine for 3 of us. Who are they to say you 'need' 840 sq ft? The popular Katrina cottages are way below that. Maybe if you tell then you are trying to go 'green', and be a good steward of the environment by minimizing your carbon footprint? I think towns and cities are going to have to start re-thinking some of these laws. In FL, for instance, you can now have a clothesline, regardless of homeowner's association rules. We looked at many properties in SC before buying ours, and a surprising number had minimum square footage requirements, some as much as 2500 sq ft! There are no restrictions where we bought- one of the reasons we bought there. I wish you luck, and whatever you do, be very polite and agreeable- you don't want local government as an enemy. Sorry for rambling on, but this stuff bugs me!

Can you design your home to have a loft?? Loft is living space, or design the attic such that you can build a room up there.

For instance - Home Depot has a really nice cabin that is made from one of their barn plans. It can be made 20 by 30 which gets you the 600 SF plus a loft of 12 by 20 which gets you another 240 and voila. or take your current plans and design a deck out one side and could be glassed in with sliding doors for a sunroom. Size it for 240 SF and Poof - 840. Think outside of the box.

Why would anyone want to spend their hard earned cash on a piece of land and then be told how to live on it? Government bureaucracy at it's finest.

Thank you so much for your quick responses and helpful ideas!

I never thought about a loft, but now that you mention it, a loft might just do the trick.

Thanks for the advice folks. I hate the government interference, but I'm trying to work within it . . . I'm viewing everyone I talk to as a potential customer or bartering partner. All smiles and polite questions, no arguments or controvertial opinions.

I'll run the idea of a loft by the builder and see what it might cost additional. Our budget just won't stretch, but maybe we can pare it down even farther than it is.

Thanks again. It's so nice to have a place to get help and friendly advice.

Before you decide what "they" will or will not do, why not just ask. Most communities that have zoning have some kind of a zoning commission. This is a small group of people who usually live there. They make decisions.

Take your plans, pictures and so on to the next zoning commission meeting. Sit down and talk with them, and ask that they make an exception in your case. This exception is called a "variance". It is common practice for this to happen, but "they" don't know what you need until you ask for it.

It is usually pretty easy if your request is somewhat reasonable. These people are your neighbors, so just go visit with them.:cool:

pcdreams . .you don't seem to understand the mentality of those "inspectors"
. ."See this badge on my chest" . . ."What ever I say goes" . . ."So bend down and kiss my boots" . . . .

They have to justify their 'jobs' . . . .that are dependent on all those wonderfull permit fees . .(read blood money).

So telling them to kiss your back side is just asking for a major headache.

Could you blow out a wall just enough to get your mim...??

my concern would be how much say would they have concerning everything else on the property would they have the authority to tell you what to do with your land? would they so to say having livestock? how far do they have control of yourplace? i would figure its your property do with what you want or find qanother place to buy i hope it all works out

Instead of building a new house why not locate a good house that can be moved to your property? I moved a house a few years back and ended with a really nice home that is energy efficient and appears new ( new brick veneer and new roof) and the total invested for the 1900+ heated area home was ~$40,000.

Add a large four season sun room to your existing plans, maybe in addition to a small loft. Put it on the south side and you would benefit from the solar gain and can also do some vegetable container gardening for fresh produce in the winter months :)

Precisely.


Jim-mi: I understand where you're coming from however, my point is If I'm paying the mortgage then I should be the only one who has say as to whats built there, period

You may call it "Government bureaucracy", but I'm glad for the Zoning in my Township. We have a 650 sq. ft minimum. That keeps those nasty run down 1960s house trailers out. Also prevents cabins that often times become tarpaper shacks. i want real estate values to stay up, protecting my investment. I hate to tell a neighbor what he can or can not build, but the reality of it is that his actions can effect the value of my home. That's when it becomes my business.
It may be done differently ibn different areas, but around here the citizens work together in creating a Land Use Plan for the Twp. Sort of what we'd like the Twp to be like in 10-15 years. Commercial development in an area that can support it, ample rural undeveloped areas, etc. Then the Zoning Ordinance is written to encourage those things to happen, while discouraging the unwanted types of development. It isn't some faceless government nazi that developes these rules, it is the community you have selected to live in. You have several changes here. Find a place that allows what you want to do, comply with the existing rules or run for local office and work to change the rules.

Instead of just having legal title get a lawful land patent.

You need a 15x16 3-season porch on the house - I think that will get you by, tho they might want heat in it, which requires insulation & all - I donno.

This porch would be nearly 1/3 the size of your house. That does make a small house you have planned there.

Haypoint has some good info if you think about it. Are you going to fit into your new community? Township rules are often a reflection of the local people. State & national regulations can be terribly out of place, but township rules are pretty close to what people all around you have in mind for living.

--->Paul

Just to play devils advocate ;)

What if the zoning board told you no gardens, because they affect the local economy at the local grocery store, you know less sales = less taxes.. etc..
Would you still feel the same?



The best bet is to add the loft or finish off a room in the attic. Another possiblity is if you have a basement (which I'm doubting) you can finish off a room there.

I start sweating at 60

when your attitude raises my taxes then that becomes my business.

IM dont live here to resell a home for profit. I live here to live off the land. Taxes are killing me. If you want resale profit, and higher taxes then rural america is the wrong place to live, and you should move somewhere els. I want lower taxes. Asthetics do nothing except cause hard working people to be taxed out of their homes.

In Wisconsin, enclosed porches are included in the square footage of a home even if they're not heated. Just add a cheap porch and take it off later on. ;)

Those square foot restrictions are to keep mobile homes out of the township, since they can't forbid you from putting a MH up, hence the double wides. A porch is not going to be counted as living space. You can put a basement or crawl foundation in for your original plan, and a slab for the extra room. It would be cheaper, however, to go up. Put up a 1 1/2 story house, not adding more foundation but wall space. Figure out what you want, add a few feet for the stairs, and make the second floor large enough to add enough square footage. You can take your time finishing the upstairs if you don't need it. I would make a nice bedroom suite upstairs, thus giving me more room to put into the kitchen, but that's just me.

If building, you can build in ways that cost less. For instance, in-floor heating, fewer but higher quality windows.

Thanks for all the good ideas. I'm going to price out the different options you've suggested, and pick the cheapest. I'll be looking at sunroom add-ons, 3 season porches, lofts & attics.

I'm also going to explore the possibily of a variance. Maybe, since the piece is on a dead-end road, they might let me go smaller than normal.

This parcel is in the agricultural district, which means homesteading activities should be okay. The land has been planted in alfalfa and corn for the past decade, maybe longer. There used to be cows on it. Anyway, farming happens all around the area.

Buy somewhere else. I specifically chose our location almost 20 years ago with one factor being that we don't have zoning. Same as the town I lived in before (and still doesn't have zoning - I only moved because I wanted more land.) Ever decade or so newcomers in the town push for zoning. So far it has been voted down every time. I crusade hard against zoning. It is an abrogation of our rights. A taking of property. First they want to tell you which area of town should have businesses vs residential and before you know it they are telling you how big to build your house, what color to paint it and how to mow your lawn. Bah hum-bug.

Buy somewhere else unless you like the zoning...

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org

By the way, our house is 252 sq-ft. Plenty of room - I don't need someone telling me how much space to live in.

Maybe one of the reasons the state of Michigan is falling into the financial abyss. Is silly restrictions? Don't worry soon those towns wont have the cash to enforce zoning or building codes. Let alone other silly regulations.

I live in a twp. with out zoning. . . . . . .part of the reason I bought here.

Once you sign on the dotted line you have just entered into a contract (with the devil) giving them total permission to rule over you. . . . . . . . . . .shameful.

Of topic but . . . . . . . with the 'building starts' way down because of the economy . . . .and therefore less permits being pulled, there has got to be some of those permit jokers wondering about their jobs . . .all paid for by the permit blood money.

Everyone's against zoning until some corp. wants to build condos blocking your view, or a Porno Store wants to set up shop next door or Waste Management wants to operate a land fill in your neighborhood. Are you going to stick up for the rights of a 5 million hen egg factory coming in next door on 5 acres, including the "settling ponds"?
You may not be concerned about resale on your farm now, but the reality is that it will be sold, someday. Either by you or your spawn. I can't afford to buy $500 calves and sell $400 finished steers. Wouldn't want to, either. Same for my farm. I don't want to buy it for $100000, put in $100000 in improvements, plus my labor and have a junk yard open across the road, ruining my investment. I would be forced to sell (to get away from the mess) at less than what I've got into it. I might not be able to get out of it what I owe, so I wouldn't have anything for a down payment on another place. Zoning lessens the chances that my community will change in ways that I find undesireable.
I lived for over two years in a 18 foot long travel trailer in an area without Zoning. Later I settled in an area with some mild zoning restrictions. That suits me. I know people that live in developments that don't allow a picnic table to sit outside over night or the color of their house must be pre-approved by the association. If your use of the property doesn't fit with that community's rules, perhaps you won't either. Free country, follow the rules or move where the rules fit you.
{"Just to play devils advocate
What if the zoning board told you no gardens, because they affect the local economy at the local grocery store, you know less sales = less taxes.. etc..
Would you still feel the same?"} Have we really got time to play this game? What if the Zoning saisd you couldn't breath? What if the Zoning said you couldn't pass gas? Come on, Zoning Ordinances are created by the people within the community, appointed by local elected oficials.

Sometimes it is usefull to have a City Planner in the family!

DH has not worked in Michigan, but he said there are some general principles that pretty much everyone follows.

He says that a sunroom has a very good chance of being accepted. And, a loft is also a good idea, but there might be requirements about how high the side walls must be before the roof starts to tilt inwards. If you go with the loft, you should ask what they will accept. Typically a basement will not be acceptable unless it is less than 4 feet more or less in the ground and has "many" windows.

He ALSO says that it is highly unusual for ZONING to require a minimum size of a building becasue many state courts have ruled such regulations unconstitutional. It is, however, common for such a requirement to be found in the Building Code. You might need to check both.

You can ask for a varience from either code, but it would likely be easier to get a zoning variance than it is to get a building code variance. He says the staff will talk you through either one.

He says that the staff in the offices are usually friendly and rather casual, but to be aware that the actual hearing is a formal event.

He says that in this modern age, the zoning ordinances are probably on-line so that you can read them. He suggests that you read the chapter on ag uses, any definitions of terms used, and something that is probably called supplemental regulations. If it is not on-line, you can ask to read it.

Building Codes are typically based on national standards, either the Uniform Building Code or the International Building Code, which are adopted by reference and therefore not usually available on-line. To read them, ask the township Building Official. They are typically required to have to have 3 copies available for the public to read.

In our township there is a size limit as well as a minimum wall length so mobile homes are not legal to put in. they also have restrictions on double wides.
If they would have had these in place earlier my neighbors wouldn't own their property and I wouldn't have to look at a dilapitated 12x50 trailer that doesn't have siding or their pile of used diapers and half empty milk jugs.

We live in a 14x70 trailer (actually 14x66, the hitch was 4ft). Thats 924 sq ft. Plenty big for 2 people. Bought the land years ago and moved the trailer from a park to here after tearing down an old junky trailer. I would like to build a small house (around the same size sq ft wise). But if I do my taxes will be 2x or more... So the township can kiss my butt. Hate the idea of being fined for doing better.
Trailers are affordable living, cheap to heat and cool, basement never floods...lol
My thoughts.
Tom

I'm of two minds on the issue, like most everything. I hate the idea of government regulation but I do agree that towns and communities should be able to make rules democratically that affect their community. To me, that is a little different.

Local zoning, when done mildly and by consensus and with adequate route for appeals for the "out of box" thinkers, are not bad. But you need to find a small community to make it work.

Cherokee Village, where I'm moving, has different rules for different sections in the community. They also have min sq ft requirements though some areas are very small, with I think 600 sq ft being min, others larger. No trailers, etc. Much of this is related to safety and health though, no house larger than leach field allows, etc.

But in that system, there is a lot of leeway and each project is considered on its own by a small elected committee. You should see if you also have that ability before worrying too much. Microhouses are no longer unheard of and many communities are being much more accepting of the concept.

Let us know....

Yeah... I know what you mean. There's a 2000 sq. ft. house just up the street from me (junk cars and trash in the yard, grass hasn't been cut this year, cardboard taped over broken windows). If they'd only change zoning so houses have to be 5000 sq. ft. I would have to look at this run down place all the time.

I would try applying for a variance before modifying any building plans.
Just explain your intent and if they say no, then go from there into looking for more options.
We are building in Northern MI too. Our township has a 400 sq.ft. min.- course we are a family of 6 so we are going to need more room than that anyways.

Good luck.:D

Why would people buy in an area then complain about zoning. Zoning is public knowledge and is not hard to figure out.It is like sitting in the middle of a free way and complaining about cars going past.

Many people here are quick to bemoan zoning regulations as the tool of the devil, but you have to consider both sides of the issue. There have been a number of threads here in the past complaining about factory farms, mines, quarries etc negatively impacting someone's property that could have been prevented with stronger zoning laws. A well written zoning ordinance serves for the protection of everyone, both yourself and your neighbors. In some areas there is zoning but the regulations are very amenable to homesteading type use of the land. I think you'll benefit from a lifetime of peaceful use of your land if you buy land in a zoned community whose zoning suits your intended use of the land and lifestyle. Where I live now the zoning ordinance is not overly restrictive and is intended to keep the township mostly rural/agricultural in nature, with commercial development limited to a couple of the major crossroad intersections and nothing to encourage high-dollar mcmansion type development like they do in some areas.