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06/22/08, 10:12 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vallyfarm
I agree with your formula in theory, but HP is what is derived from torque, not the other way around. A modern engine gets it's HP by increasing RPM. So an old 2 cyl JD, for example gets it's max HP at around 900-1000 RPM, while a newer tractor gets it's peak HP at 3000 RPM or more. Using that formula shows that a slower turning engine will create much more torque than a faster one. Since torque is what actually turns that PTO, a 30 HP older,slower engine will have much more torque to power equipment than a faster engine geared back down to the PTO. I'm in no way saying that newer tractors can't do the job, just that newer tractors, in general, need more HP to do the same job. Also, in general, older tractors, and other equipment, cost less for parts, and will need fewer repairs due to their more robust and simpler construction. Either way, proper sizing of the bailer is what is key here.  Mike |
Just remember that you can trade RPM for torque (gearing, think about how a winch works for an extreme case of torque). So even if I generate less torque at 3000RPM than you do at 1000, if I gear down by 1/3 to get a 1000 RPM equivalent at the shaft, I get 3x the torque I had at 3000RPM. Since, for PTO loads, we always gear down to the same RPM, more HP=more torque. For the JD @ 1000RPM, it gets a roughly 2:1 gain going to 540RPM, for something spinning 2500RPM, it gets roughly 5:1 gain in torque.
Back to the topic, I have a friend who used a hand start 2cyl JD to do his hay for years. Not many hills in his fields, but he put up a few hundred bales every year. . He's moved on to something made in the 50s or 60s now, he always seems to like the stuff that's about 50 years old...
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06/22/08, 10:35 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,133
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Question:
QUESTION:
What did people do before fuel-powered machinery? Didn't they just cut it with a hand-held blade of some sort and then load it all up into a horse drawn trailer unbundled?
Just curious, as sheep and goat farmers weren't always dependent upon modern equipment.
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06/23/08, 08:59 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCM
QUESTION:
What did people do before fuel-powered machinery? Didn't they just cut it with a hand-held blade of some sort and then load it all up into a horse drawn trailer unbundled?
Just curious, as sheep and goat farmers weren't always dependent upon modern equipment.
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Do you have any Amish farmers near you?
If you do, take a trip into the area when the cutting is going on.
We have quite a few and they still do mostly cutting , stacking and hauling the old horse drawn way.
Kinda cool seeing the wheat stacked in the fields and the hay stacks.
Looks like a lot of work to me....................
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06/23/08, 08:21 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCM
QUESTION:
What did people do before fuel-powered machinery? Didn't they just cut it with a hand-held blade of some sort and then load it all up into a horse drawn trailer unbundled?
Just curious, as sheep and goat farmers weren't always dependent upon modern equipment.
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When I was a kid (and I'm not that old), my dad cut our hay by hand with a scythe and we raked it by hand. When we did oats, he had a scythe with 'fingers' (sorry, can't remember the right name for this rig anymore, but still have it in the barn) so when you took a cut, you could drop the oats into a neat pile to tie off into a bundle. We did about an acre a year in oats and maybe 2 in hay. We piled the hay loose on the back of a pickup (bed had 4' sides and we stacked it all the way over the cab) and then hand loaded into the hayloft. If you thought handling bales was 'itchy' work, try throwing it up loose! We also threshed the oats by hand and then winnowed them, too.
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06/24/08, 01:41 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MN
Posts: 7,610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RebootMyself
he had a scythe with 'fingers' (sorry, can't remember the right name for this rig anymore, but still have it in the barn) .
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Cradle.
--->Paul
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06/24/08, 05:28 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,192
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I dunno.
I KNOW I don't have the HP OR the torque anymore to run a scythe for very long...... 
I have two of them (my grandpa's and my wife's grandpa's.....), but I doubt my back and knees would let me get very far....
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06/24/08, 09:27 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southern/Lower Michigan
Posts: 335
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Nebraska Tractor Test #443 rates the 8-N Ford at:
CHP drawbar 23.16 h.p., belt 27.32 h.p.
__________________
Please Put Your Location In Your Profile ... TY 
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06/24/08, 09:48 AM
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter63
Have been looking around for a small haybine, rake, bailer suitable to pull behind a 30 Hp compact tractor.
Any ideas?
I would think that with the continuing widespread use of the Ford 2n-9n, 8n, small Farmall etc @ approx. the same hp, that the older equipment would work?
It seem to me that there is now a market to cut, rake and bale hay from small parcels, too small for the larger equipment.
Names, models, sources, experiences would be appreciated.
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What 30hp tractor is going to be the issue, Most modern 30hp compacts are to lightweight to pull a standard bailer. There are some smaller light weight bailers that work great behind compacts a low as 15hp, but they cost $15K and seldom are found used.
Your 30hp will mow,rake fine, but you need some torque and weight to move a bailer properly.
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Gary in Central Ohio
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06/24/08, 05:21 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southern/Lower Michigan
Posts: 335
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I always liked New Holland balers.
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