horse and buggie permits

michiganfarmer · #41 05/22/08, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truckinguy

I think driving is a privilege. You have the right to do anything you want until it affects me. If you abuse that privilege by driving like an idiot, drunk driving, speeding excessively etc., you deserve to have that right taken away. I understand that some people drive without a licence and some people with licences shouldn't have one but no system is perfect. The sytem we have now is a lot safer than if we just let everyone do whatever they like. If everyone wanted to just drive whatever they wanted to on the road, think of all the unsafe vehicles that would be on the road. We have a driver and vehicle licencing system to try to maintain a high level of safety on our roads and for the most part, it's working. I understand rights and freedoms but we live in a community where ones actions affect other people. If you want complete freedom to do whatever you want with no one telling you what to do, go find an island in the middle of the ocean and enjoy.

Bless your heart. Another permission asker.

MELOC · #42 05/22/08, 11:31 AM

isn't the right to "travel" (i forget the term) guaranteed by the pa constitution? so in pa, couldn't one argue that requiring a license that could possibly be revoked is a violation of that right? i know people have tried this with automobiles when they lost their license due to DUI. i am not sure about the outcome, but i think that maybe a few actually won.

CarolynRenee · #43 05/22/08, 11:41 AM

To Permit is to Control.

Nuff said!

Truckinguy · #44 05/22/08, 01:35 PM

Quote:

The problem is you are confusing rights and privileges. The two terms are NOT interchangeable.

Kayleigh

Yes, you're right, that sure wasn't worded right. Some people say that the ability to drive is a right. I disagree. I think it is a privilege that should be earned. If what Meloc just said about being able to travel is a right, I don't think that includes a car licence. If that's the case, you could carry that right up the line, to buses, big trucks, airplanes. The larger the vehicle is, the more stringent the qualifications are to operate it due to the increased risk of damage or injury in case of an incident.

I think the right to free travel means to be able to travel freely without restriction in the country, it has nothing to do with the mode of transportation.

indypartridge · #45 05/22/08, 01:43 PM

It's interesting to think about the words we abbreviate (DMV or BMV). Aren't licenses issued by the Dept of MOTOR vehicles? Or in some states, the Bureau of MOTOR Vehicles? Where's the motor on a horse and buggy?

Truckinguy · #46 05/22/08, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Bless your heart. Another permission asker.

I think you completely missed my point. I don't want big brother looking over my shoulder any more than the next guy. I do believe that some control needs to be taken over the safety of the vehicles on our roads and the ability of people to drive them. Otherwise you would have people driving whatever piece of junk they wanted on the road. You can't have people living together with absolutely no rules at all.

I think the Amish up here have to have a slow moving vehicle triangle on the back and one red light at night. I don't know about licencing.

Mel- · #47 05/22/08, 05:48 PM

well, I found this online for dekalb county, indiana. maybe look up your county online:

License Fee for Horse Drawn Vehicles
9-2-1

License Fee for Horse Drawn Vehicles.
9-2-2

WHEREAS the County Commissioners and DeKalb County Council are advised that there exists a need for the establishment by county ordinance of a county license fee for horse drawn wagons, carts and buggies,

NOW THEREFORE be it ordained that effective January 1, 1984:

No horse drawn wagon, buggy or cart shall be operated over and along any public highway or highway right-of-way in DeKalb County, Indiana unless same shall bear in plain view a license issued by the County of DeKalb, and State of Indiana, through the DeKalb County Auditor and Township Trustee who shall charge a fee therefore in the sum of $20.00 which funds shall revert to the highway general fund for appropriation and use as the DeKalb County Council shall deem proper.

The operation of such horse drawn wagon, buggy or cart without compliance to this ordinance shall be deemed to be a Class A infraction and upon a finding of guilty by any duly authorized court in this county the person so found to be in control of such illegally operated buggy, wagon or cart shall be fined in a sum not to exceed $50.00 plus any court costs or expenses as may be legally taxed to such a violator. Such costs shall be payable to the court and such fines shall be delivered to county highway fund.

**ladycat** · #48 05/22/08, 06:36 PM

Amish buggy plates dating back to 1956:

http://moini.net/buggy.html

piglady · #49 05/23/08, 11:30 AM

I think getting a buggy is an excellent idea. We love our drafts and although I have to drive too far to work to take the team, I certainly would if I could. I think this country is going to make a complete circle and some (not all of course) are going to find that it is cheaper and a lot more enjoyable to use a team of draft horses to do their farm work than to buy gas for the tractor. As for tags and all that, I'll leave that to others to argue. What I would be concerned about is personal safety so the orange triangle is a must and lights if you can get them.

**ladycat** · #50 05/23/08, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piglady

I think this country is going to make a complete circle and some (not all of course) are going to find that it is cheaper and a lot more enjoyable to use a team of draft horses to do their farm work than to buy gas for the tractor.

That's going to be very difficult for those who have hundreds or thousands of acres.

piglady · #51 05/23/08, 05:04 PM

I would wonder how many folks on this site have thousands of acres. Count me in the hundreds with drafts!

**ladycat** · #52 05/23/08, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piglady

I would wonder how many folks on this site have thousands of acres. Count me in the hundreds with drafts!

I doubt there are very many people on this site with that much.

I think this place where I'm sitting has something like 2.9 acres or thereabouts.

But there are farms in this country that are VERY large.

country friend · #53 05/23/08, 05:35 PM

I do not know about permits in New York , But in this part of Indiana Franklin county no permits are required.
I drive my buggy a lot . We have went to church 12 miles away , visit friends and to small town store for a few things . We do have a car and a truck but if the price of fuel keeps going up the buggy and horse will be used a lot more . I have a box board wagon to use for hauling things around on farm . I do have pasture and my own hay so the cost of having horses is quiet cheap for us . If you can buy your feed cheap enough or can grow your own having a driving horse is great fun and way to cut back on the liguid gold.
Indiana Country Friend Jack

Freeholder · #54 05/23/08, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladycat

That's going to be very difficult for those who have hundreds or thousands of acres.

As I've said on one of the other forums, what I believe will eventually happen is that the huge farms will be broken up into smaller units that can be farmed by a family with draft animals, in a reversal of the 'get bigger or get out' mentallity. It will take time -- hopefully the government won't step in and pull a stupid and forcibly reallocate the land. More likely farms will go under, nobody will have money to buy the whole thing, so they'll be broken up. Of course, it's also possible that a lot of those big farms will be bought up at pennies on the dollar to be added to the wilderness lands -- you remember reading about the plan some people have to turn most of this country back into wilderness?

Kathleen

**ladycat** · #55 05/23/08, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueJuniperFarm

hopefully the government won't step in and pull a stupid and forcibly reallocate the land.

The Australian gov't did that after WW2. I'd hate for that to happen here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueJuniperFarm

More likely farms will go under, nobody will have money to buy the whole thing, so they'll be broken up. Of course, it's also possible that a lot of those big farms will be bought up at pennies on the dollar to be added to the wilderness lands

Or maybe bought up by foreign entities, like what's already happening!

If it were to go back to wilderness, lots of people would starve.

MELOC · #56 09/14/08, 12:25 AM

not to drift too far, but i have heard about people being busted for DUI on horseback. i wonder what happens then? do they still have the right to ride? lol

silentcrow · #57 09/14/08, 12:41 AM

MELOC, you are safe in PA (last I knew) to RIDE a horse while intoxicated. However, if you are DRIVING a horse drawn vehicle (or tractor), you can be arrested for DUI.

MELOC · #58 09/14/08, 01:43 AM

there was a fellow busted for DUI on horseback here in my town a decade or so ago. that is why i was wondering. i found it to be strange because a good horse knows it's way home and could easily get you there. i got lost riding in the woods once as a teen and i told the horse it was time for "grainy grain" and she took me right home, lol.

Jennifer L. · #59 09/14/08, 03:31 PM

I don't get the problems with making them have licences of some kind. The money goes for road upkeep/building, doesn't it? People used to have to upkeep the road around their farms, but when more and more people left farming and became urban, road upkeep became a public expense.

My father and uncle used to piece of equipment for keeping the gravel road next to the lake here leveled after waves would throw up gravel/stones onto the road during storms. When the town took that job over they didn't have to do that anymore. It was a public road before that, but the people whose property bordered the road were expected to upkeep their section of the road until town road departments were formed.

If you use the road for vehicles of any kind, you should pay for the upkeep of the road. Religion has nothing to do with it.

Jennifer

bstuart29 · #60 09/14/08, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jennifer L.

I don't get the problems with making them have licences of some kind. The money goes for road upkeep/building, doesn't it? People used to have to upkeep the road around their farms, but when more and more people left farming and became urban, road upkeep became a public expense.

My father and uncle used to piece of equipment for keeping the gravel road next to the lake here leveled after waves would throw up gravel/stones onto the road during storms. When the town took that job over they didn't have to do that anymore. It was a public road before that, but the people whose property bordered the road were expected to upkeep their section of the road until town road departments were formed.

If you use the road for vehicles of any kind, you should pay for the upkeep of the road. Religion has nothing to do with it.

Then be honest about what it is for, don't come off like most officials so it is to make sure the vehicle is safe thats hogwash most of the time it is to bleed more money from people.

Jennifer

Then be honest about what it is for, don't come off like most officials so it is to make sure the vehicle is safe thats hogwash most of the time it is to bleed more money from people.