Any Pa. Conceal Carry holders here?

retiredbop · #41 05/20/08, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedspreader

....I am always amazed at how scared many people are of guns.

You can thank Hollywood for that. They have created this entire myth of how the quickest, wildest shot from the tiniest gun is instantly lethal or at the very least debilitating. Truth is, unless the bullet strikes a vital organ or the spine, you probably are in for a very tough fight. And hitting those areas under stress is pretty tough. Want a scarey thought? Stats show that over 70% of police fired rounds do not strike their intended tareget. And we are trained to hit what we aim at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beowoulf90

Yes it is legal to "open carry" in PA (except in a city of the 1st class in plain words Filthadelphia unless you have a concealed carry permit), but as to how adviszble it is is another matter. I carry open on Fridays just because I can and have never had any trouble, but as the news has said there was trouble in the Scranton area just recently. Again I will say check my sig line for a link to PAFOA, they have the laws pertaining to this thread and links to where you can find the info if it isn't on their site.

I think major urban areas are really the only places where you might run into some static over carrying openly. But again, I return to my original statement, if they know you are carrying you are doing it wrong. The purpose of concealed carry, or carrying any weapon for that matter, is to protect your life and that of those you love. It is NOT to have a bunch of secretly armed vigilantes roaming the streets "shooting down the bad guys".

My father used to say that his objection to my off-duty carry was that he was afraid I'd get killed trying to be a hero. It took me years to convince him that unless there was an imminent threat of loss of life all I was going to do was observe and gather details for the police report.

I've been an active duty, full-time law enforcement officer for 25 years now. I've only drawn my weapon once, and I have fortunately never had to fire it.

MELOC · #42 05/20/08, 10:07 AM

i don't think anyone has the right to tell me how to carry or that i may be doing it wrong (i don't carry, but if i did...). you claim that hollywood created some sort of stereotype, but insisting that people should not carry openly when they are so entitled is perpetuating the stereotype. if more people carried openly, people may be desensitized to the hollywood stigma.

**Cabin Fever** · #43 05/20/08, 10:22 AM

I never open carry for two primary reasons. One, you lose the element of "surprise" if you are ever faced with a situation. In other words, why tip off the perpetrators that you are armed? The other reasons is there are plenty of jerks out there who would like to sneak up to you and try to grap your holstered firearm. You've heard of purse snatchers...right? These same scum wouldn't think twice at an attempt to snatch your gun.

michiganfarmer · #44 05/20/08, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MELOC

i don't think anyone has the right to tell me how to carry or that i may be doing it wrong (i don't carry, but if i did...). you claim that hollywood created some sort of stereotype, but insisting that people should not carry openly when they are so entitled is perpetuating the stereotype. if more people carried openly, people may be desensitized to the hollywood stigma.

there ya go

MELOC · #45 05/20/08, 12:26 PM

i think the value of the visible deterant outweighs the element of surprise, but that is my opinion and i value yours. i just feel that if more people were armed, and more folks knew they were armed, then lots of opportunistic crimes could be discouraged before they happen.

beowoulf90 · #46 05/20/08, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

I never open carry for two primary reasons. One, you lose the element of "surprise" if you are ever faced with a situation. In other words, why tip off the perpetrators that you are armed? The other reasons is there are plenty of jerks out there who would like to sneak up to you and try to grap your holstered firearm. You've heard of purse snatchers...right? These same scum wouldn't think twice at an attempt to snatch your gun.

Well there in lies the difference, my holstered 45acp can't easily be drawn by someone else, no one is going to "snatch" it out of the holster.... it took lots of practice to be able to draw and fire. Now I'm sure someone is going to come up with an instance where it was snatched by the criminal and used it on an innocent victim, but if this is the case it is rare indeed... Most criminals won't attempt to do it because most are cowards and won't attack an armed citizen, they prefer helpless, and unarmed victims...

**Cabin Fever** · #47 05/20/08, 10:15 PM

Any exposed hip-style holster can have its gun drawn as easily by someone standing close behind the carrier (think elevator, cashier line, crowded street) as by the carrier himself. If you carry your exposed 1911 in a shoulder holster, belly holster, or the old Army flapped holster, well that's a different matter.

retiredbop · #48 05/20/08, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MELOC

i don't think anyone has the right to tell me how to carry or that i may be doing it wrong (i don't carry, but if i did...). you claim that hollywood created some sort of stereotype, but insisting that people should not carry openly when they are so entitled is perpetuating the stereotype. if more people carried openly, people may be desensitized to the hollywood stigma.

You misquoted me. I said, "If you are carrying concealed and anybody knows it you are doing it wrong." Carrying openly is a different subject altogether. I am afraid you also give "people" a lot more credit for intelligence than I do. The vast majority that I see are wearing blinders, walk around completely unaware of their surroundings, and readily ingest that gruel they are spoon fed by the idiot box.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MELOC

i think the value of the visible deterant outweighs the element of surprise, but that is my opinion and i value yours. i just feel that if more people were armed, and more folks knew they were armed, then lots of opportunistic crimes could be discouraged before they happen.

I don't know that the visible deterrent is really necessary. I believe that if the state you are in is a known "shall issue" state, like FL for instance, you would see a concurrent reduction in violent crime. And we do when we look at FL State Police records. Just the fact that they "may" encounter an armed citizen reduces their tendency for predation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beowoulf90

Well there in lies the difference, my holstered 45acp can't easily be drawn by someone else, no one is going to "snatch" it out of the holster.... it took lots of practice to be able to draw and fire. Now I'm sure someone is going to come up with an instance where it was snatched by the criminal and used it on an innocent victim, but if this is the case it is rare indeed... Most criminals won't attempt to do it because most are cowards and won't attack an armed citizen, they prefer helpless, and unarmed victims...

Every year I attend the memorial services at the National Law Enforcement Officer's Memorial (May 13th) for the candlelight vigil and the reading of the names being added to the wall that year. Many of them believed their holster was secure too. Criminals do practice. We have hours of CCTV footage of them practicing martial arts, escape tactics, weapons snatches, and self defense in supposed "blind spots" in the rec yard every year. I am not kidding when I tell you that Federal prison, in the minds of many of these guys, is just "earning their Masters degree". Don't believe Amnesty International and other bleeding heart do-gooders. There is no such thing as rehabilitation, unless the individual actually wants to rehabilitate himself. All we can do is make the necessary tools available to him/her.

I advocate concealed carry over open carry because, as with the firearm itself, I don't believe the average walking around citizen is truly aware of his surroundings nor well enough trained in weapons retention to fight off a snatch and rob. Heck, my own agency doesn't train in weapons retention more than an hour a year. That's why I practice with my partner and other interested LEO's.

Quint · #49 05/21/08, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retiredbop

I advocate concealed carry over open carry because, as with the firearm itself, I don't believe the average walking around citizen is truly aware of his surroundings nor well enough trained in weapons retention to fight off a snatch and rob. Heck, my own agency doesn't train in weapons retention more than an hour a year. That's why I practice with my partner and other interested LEO's.

As far as retention goes I've switched all of my carry holsters to Level II SERPA type holsters. It's much more secure and it is much more difficult for an aggressor to manipulate. They're just as fast or faster than a thumb break type and you're not nearly as apt to accidentally have the thing pop open on accident. I seen a deputy friend of mine dump his glock out on the floor of the local grocery store when he reached down to pick up a roll of paper towels he dropped. There went his plastic fantastic bouncing down aisle 6 in front of a group of slightly bewildered onlookers.

tiffnzacsmom · #50 05/21/08, 09:05 AM

PA you can carry openly and the process is pretty easy to get the CCW permit, my ex did and that was with a drug conviction in the past, over a decade and was set up as ARD so that might be why he got it.

steve-in-kville · #51 05/21/08, 09:59 AM

I have my permit. It is called a "sheriff's permit" since the local sheriff issues the permit. PA does not have a true "concealed carry" permit. It is a "license to carry a firearm."

beowoulf90 · #52 05/21/08, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve-in-kville

I have my permit. It is called a "sheriff's permit" since the local sheriff issues the permit. PA does not have a true "concealed carry" permit. It is a "license to carry a firearm."

You are correct in the name, but it is commonly known as a "concealed carry permit". My point is; Do not carry a concealed firearm if you do not have a "license to carry a firearm". This is why the misnomer as a "concealed carry permit".

beowoulf90 · #53 05/21/08, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retiredbop

Every year I attend the memorial services at the National Law Enforcement Officer's Memorial (May 13th) for the candlelight vigil and the reading of the names being added to the wall that year. Many of them believed their holster was secure too. Criminals do practice. We have hours of CCTV footage of them practicing martial arts, escape tactics, weapons snatches, and self defense in supposed "blind spots" in the rec yard every year. I am not kidding when I tell you that Federal prison, in the minds of many of these guys, is just "earning their Masters degree". Don't believe Amnesty International and other bleeding heart do-gooders. There is no such thing as rehabilitation, unless the individual actually wants to rehabilitate himself. All we can do is make the necessary tools available to him/her.

I advocate concealed carry over open carry because, as with the firearm itself, I don't believe the average walking around citizen is truly aware of his surroundings nor well enough trained in weapons retention to fight off a snatch and rob. Heck, my own agency doesn't train in weapons retention more than an hour a year. That's why I practice with my partner and other interested LEO's.

As to not being secure, nothing is 100% secure.... but I do my best and also use a Blackhawk Serpa Level 2 holster. Again as to the advisablity of carrying open, I can argue both sides of the issue, but here in PA it is still a legal and I won't let them take it away if I can possiblly help it. So I carry open 1 day a week.

veme · #54 05/21/08, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiffnzacsmom

PA you can carry openly and the process is pretty easy to get the CCW permit, my ex did and that was with a drug conviction in the past, over a decade and was set up as ARD so that might be why he got it.

In Pennsylvania it is indeed legal to open carry..but I have never seen anyone except for the police do it.

What's ARD?

What county did this happen in?