Any *TOTAL* Homesteaders out there?

Why not you don't have to be on a grid to have internet. We have a small solar/wind set up for power. In the winter we use oil lights


Just call me 80% akhomesteader

Thank you, it's been on my mind all day to get on here and add that when I finished my outdoor tasks.



Guess it would be more appropriate to say, depending on where you live in rural AK, there are no property taxes.

To me, a TOTAL homesteader is one who, upon departing the trappings of modern society, carrying nothing but the tattered cloths on his back and loins, (let's make him barefoot, even) turned his sights north, and west, stumbled upon a small outcropping of iron ore, built a clay cupola, melted and poured the iron, mixed in the proper amounts of carbon at just the right time, used a boulder and a round stone to beat the iron into malleable steel, fashions an axe, knife, shovel, hoe, pitchfork and small anvil, hammer and tongs (to make the job a little easier for the next time), lives on edible wild plants and fish the whole time, (not to mention the buck he leapt out of a tree onto and hit in the head with a rock and made moccasins from the hide) makes soap from the yucca plant he runs across and what little tallow he gleans from the deer carcass, braids up a 20 foot and a one hundred foot coil of rope from last years still standing stinging nettle stalk fibers, happens upon a limestone outcropping, uses his hammer to pulverize several tons of the stuff into powder, builds another cupola and stokes it with the powdered lime and charcoal that he manufactured the night before, mixed small creek stone and sand from the stream that he chose to settle by for it's power potential and fertile surrounding fields with the resultant cement powder, pours foundations for and builds with the axe a cabin, barn, wood shed, shop, root cellar, grist mill (yeah, he carved a sandstone mill wheel in his spare time), chicken house, tannery, and, of course, a more permanent iron and coke blasting cupola for future project enhancement.

I could, and should, go on. But I already don't qualify and if anyone here does, I'd love to know about it.

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“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” Barry Goldwater.
III

Forerunner,

Anyone in their right mind can follow all the same steps you described minus the traveling in rags part as a museum reinactor at a working settlement presentation and return to the their technological comforts at quiting time.

Interestingly many of those who get swept up in the idea of homesteading and total off grid existance and follow tracks similar to your description often write books on the topic and while showing signs of eccentricity also make a career for themselves as a published writer .

Although they may have gone off grid, from the time they begin publishing, they are right back in society. Pretty ironic when you think about it.

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"I didn't have time to slay the dragon. It's on my To Do list!"

Beaners, Come on down to Louisiana, we are homestead exempt. We pay 50.00 a year for taxes.
Also I did know a family that lived in my little town that lived of the grid for 3 years. They lived in a real Teepee. Also had an outside bedroom that was up in the trees with mesh around it. They fished for meat also had a pet dear that was hilarious. Had some pigs, chickens and a garden. They tried to eat Macrobiotic diet. But to tell ya the truth they did smell a little. But they enjoyed it for 3 years , then the last I heard was that they had gotten a divorce. Oh well.

Well Shrek, I was referring to the man who forsook all safety nets, permanently, and made his way in the wilderness with no thought of returning.

I doubt that many of those who reinact could pull off the deal for real, whether they were in their right minds or no.

Now as for writing about the experience, definitely.
Such knowledge is crucial to posterity.
If one could write and get published while maintaining their own stringent, off the path lifestyle, I see no sin in the act.

__________________
“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” Barry Goldwater.
III

This couple lives north of me about 20 miles.
http://www.miningjournal.net/page/co...id/508767.html

I'm thinking a remote area of WV as far as minimal taxes. Building codes are few and far between unless you live in one of the 4 or 5 major met. areas. That can come in handy for things like humanure and greywater and other issues.

Dan

__________________
I left my home to defend my country from socialists, tyrants, and thugs,
only to return to find an uninformed electorate had voted one into office.

Even the original settlers/homesteads didn't do all the things you list on their own. They landed at Jamestown and Plymouth Colony with a fairly well thought out plan and supplies to start their settlements. They also came in groups with various professions/craft skills so no one individual had to be able to do everything.

Later homesteaders (1800's) went west with a wagon load of supplies with which to build their new homes and get their operations running.

When settlements were along the coast in the 1600's, supplies came in buy ship yearly. In the 1700's frontier areas had supplies borught inland by wagon, pack animals or flatboats and canoes. During the westward expansion packtrains, wagontrains, riverboats and later trains brought regular shipments of supplies.

Though in none of these eras and areas did the homesteaders/settlers have all they needed all the time they were hardly without resources. It may have been several days or even more than a week to get to a town/trading- post/fort, they would make make the trip when absolutely needed.

Even during the Rocky Mountain fur trade era, pack trains brought in yearly supplies (gunpowder, flints, lead, traps, tools, clothing and even specialty foods). These pack trains would meet late each spring at a designated location for a "rendezvous", during which the trappers would resupply for the coming season.

I can't think of any period in time (even prehistory) that individuals purposefully went out "carrying nothing but the tattered cloths on his back and loins, (let's make him barefoot, even)".

Very, very few, if any homesteaders thought of foresaking all safety nets permanently. Their thoughts were to establish new settlements and communities in new areas.

As a long time 18th century living history interpreter at a working settlement, I can/have done many (not all) the tasks you mention, plus many that you did not. Granted I come home to some comforts, but even in my "modern" home and life I choose/prefer to do many things in the historic manner.

There is no way (then or now) that any individual could do all the things you mention, plus the other things you don't mention... there literally are not enough hours in a day for one person to do all that.

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"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid".

I'm not homesteading yet, but I plan to show the same enthusiasm and dedication I showed in my college entrace essay, and my college final exam (which I passed with flying colors.) So, having set my mind to it, I'm sure I will become a *TOTAL* homesteader soon.

--sgl

Sometimes I think there are people that think if your not 100% self-sustained that there should be an implied sense of failure. When I finally start the process (hopefully soon) it will be an ongoing thing.

I don't think there is anything wrong with striving for self-sufficiency at what ever level you can start with. I'm certainly going to have a safety net at whatever level that is. I would'nt live life without a safety net any more than I would operate a tablesaw without a blade guard. (Hopeless referal from an old fart woodworker )

JMHO
Dan

__________________
I left my home to defend my country from socialists, tyrants, and thugs,
only to return to find an uninformed electorate had voted one into office.

That sort of person wouldn't waste their time visiting web sites or writing books.

That sort of person is generally like trip wire vets or other nut jobs.

__________________
"I didn't have time to slay the dragon. It's on my To Do list!"

No one on this board some are just want to be's. Some live close but still go to town, have putters, cars, electric lights , running water, I could go on and on. In my opion its a big No

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Deo Vindice O I'm a Good Old Rebel and thats what I am, I don't want no pardon for what I am and did

You mean you actually leave the blade guard on? My new DeWalt came with a blade guard in the box, which a year later has never been installed. Sorry to disrupt the flow of things, I just realized that nobody I know (I am a carpenter) uses a blade guard on a table saw.

Mark

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Mark and Sara Cowperthwaite
Nathaniel, Virginia, Naomi, Samuel, and Josiah

You're right. Even for folks who could be totally self sufficient, the government prevents that. If you're going to have meat or fish, you either have to get a license to hunt and fish, or risk losing everything you have. That requires money. Most places have property taxes. That requires money. The few places that don't have property taxes are being pressured by the state to impose taxes. If you have children, there are certain arbitrary minimum standards set by social services. If you don't meet those arbitrary standards, you risk losing your children, no matter that you may be raising them as well as our forefathers were raised.

I've thought a lot lately about how to become more self sufficient, even though we already live more of that lifestyle than most folks would even want. If the economy gets "bad" (an intentionally vague term, here ) there are many things that will go, including the phone. There are things we buy now that we will stop buying, including TP. I can make re-usable cloth rags easy enough for that. Yes, I'd have to purchase the thread and needle, so I guess I'm excluded from being considered self-reliant. I like chocolate, and I buy a bag of cocoa once a year. That will stop if we can't afford it. I could go on, but the point is that even though we live in the Alaskan bush and could be much more self-reliant than we are, we live the way we live by choice. Having internet or chocolate or a garden or tattered clothes, etc are no standards by which self sufficiency should be judged. It takes practice and skills, but more than that, it takes the right attitude or mindset, or whatever you'd like to call it. Based on that, I'd say that there probably are folks on this forum who could be very self-sufficient in short order if they had to. Most aren't doing it now, but it's a matter of choice, not necessity.

Jenny
Frontier Freedom

This whole thread has me confused,

I thought a homstead was a place for my family to make a home. We have done that, so I guess I/WE are homesteaders. Are we totally self-sufficient, NO. We do work very hard at being self-sufficient, but I know that we will never be Totally. We grow most of our own food, we sell extra at the farmers markets for cash to buy what we have to. We conserve, recycle, reuse, and make as much as we can. We barter what we can, when we can.

Having said all this, we still need the cash. There are things that just need money to pay for, and that you just can't make or ignore. Taxes, grocery items, medications, and fuel are a few. OH, and I haven't found a free internet provider around here either.

All I know, is we chose to live the life we live, and its not for everyone.

I have some good friends who live completely independent. Their water supply is gravity fed from a lake on their property. They have some electric from solar, but live without a lot of electric. I'm trying to learn all I can from them.

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Not sure 100% what you mean on Total homesteader but I can tell you this there is a guy that lives up in the woods in a certain part of a state no can not name state but he is total cut off from the world he kills his own food, washes clothes out in old running creek when there is water, uses water from the creek drives no type of vehicle nor has any type of radio or tv to see what the weather or other news is. So you can call him a homesteader if want to. He never has to pay no type of bills for anything not even a doctor bill because he never comes to town. He traps his own fur too. When he is seen people thinks he is nuts because his looks like dirt most the time. Someone asked him one time why don't you have power to your place he replied saying that is devilish, if god wonted you to have power he would had them long time ago instead of us humans making it theirselves. He also replied the animals put on this earth is for killing and eating that is what god wonts us to do. He does have a gardern but he saves his own seeds. How he got started with his own seeds must be back from his parents years years ago. There is very few of these people left on this earth.

Can you be a TRUE, TOTALLY SELF-SUSTAINED homesteader if you have things, like, a small tractor for mowing hay and such....or pots and pans you bought? How about a knife? If you aren't in an area where there is iron ore, can you still call yourself *completely* self-sufficient if you buy a knife instead of chipping one from flint?

I think what confuses me is the description. There has been lots of debate about what a homesteader is....how does adding the adjectives "total", "true" or "completely self-sustained" make the definitions any less blurry?

I hear lots of different things that supposedly "define" what a homesteader, or total homesteader for that matter, is....

1. A homesteader doesn't buy things, a homesteader uses barter. Generally with neighbors and such.

Okay, if I trade 3 laying hens for a scythe to mow hay, I am a homesteader. But if I trade three laying hens for cash and go *buy* a scythe to mow hay, I am not? What if my neighbors don't have any extra scythes laying around? What if neither I, nor any of my neighbors, know how to make a scythe? Please answer quickly, as I am tired of mowing my hay fields with the scissors I inherited from my grandmother.

2. A homesteader is off the grid.

Very well. Does a homesteader use electricity? If not, then no one here qualifies. If so, how does one barter for solar panels? Does one get them from someone who *gasp* used that filthy lucre to [B]buy[B] them and then decided they were useless? Not all areas have decent wind for cobbling together a wind turbine.

3. A homesteader eschews technology.

Again, no one here qualifies.

4. A homesteader is completely self sufficient.

How many people here either laid the connecting cable or launched the satellite that provides them with internet connection? In the cable, I mean the total cable that connects them with the internet backbone that was originally established by the U.S. military. Owning your own, private ISP provider counts if your company also owns the cable, rather than rents it. Anyone? Anyone?

If being a TRUE, TOTAL homesteader does, indeed, involve these things above, why would anyone waste their time traveling barefoot through the wilderness when they could just convert to Quakerism and have an international community of Friends from which to draw education....as well as someone to barter with who might actually have an extra scythe laying about? If the above restrictions applied, NO-ONE could just go out an be a homesteader, because such a lifestyle would require a community of like-minded people who lived the same lifestyle. Unless, of course, one wished to become a hermit.

If you can trade a chicken for for cash, with which you buy a scythe, and still remain a homesteader; then you can trade a lot of chickens for cash, with which you buy a solar panel, a wind turbine, a car, or whatever you need, and still remain a homesteader.

If you can sell the work of your hands, either in product or in services rendered, and still remain a homesteader....then you can have a job and still be a homesteader.

No-one can live as they did 200 years ago without a community of others living the same way. People living 200 years ago didn't do it by themselves...they had their towns and their neighbors. Joe, down the way, had a small forge and knew how to shoe a horse and could fix an axle. Billy, up the road a piece, was a wainwright. Old Widow Johnson was who you went to if you, your wife or your kids were sick....and especially if your wife was blessing you with another kid. Even the mountain men and trappers didn't do it alone, they often stayed with and traded with the local native Tribes.

And if you happen to not be a Quaker, or living near one of those kinds of communities, you are stuck with buying what you need. Joe, down the way, is a corporate manager and Billy, up the road a piece, is a network engineer. Neither one of them know how to shoe a horse or fix a wagon wheel. Also, they still have the chickens you gave them last time and their wives have set their foot down...no more pets.

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Peace,
Caliann

"First, Show me in the Bible where it says you can save someone's soul by annoying the hell out of them." -- Chuck

Though not purposefully, Adam and Eve were the original homesteaders. Can't get more self-sufficient than that, huh?