do you think this would or will happen?

Most likely it was those people's teen agers or children that was doing the vandalizing. I don't know many older folks who would bother with throwing a tomato at someones house or windows. Now stealing them for dinner is another matter. LOL

donsgal

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Life is what happens while you are making other plans. (John Lennon)

My neighbors know where they can get one too. I will gladly give it to them....one bullet at a time. Fortunately I don't have these issues currently and God willing never will. But arms protect people far more than they hurt the innocent. Of course our having a German Shepherd won't hurt either. You just can't beat the look of one running at you at top speed for that pure factor. Its okay to let folks know you are serious. Stops a lot of the nonsense before it ever gets started.

Apparently not. I've had quite a number of people ask to buy our little Chevy pickup sitting in front of our house. One guy rang the doorbell and asked how many miles were on the pickup. Stunned, I asked him why he was asking. "Oh. I want it." "Sorry, it's not for sale." He truly looked hurt.

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Survivalism. It's not just for survivalists anymore.

It is picking up around here. We've had several newscasts that dealt with the uptick in rusteling<sp?> in the last year. Also several dealing with the tough times the food pantrys are having helping folks out. I think I remember one where they were having to turn folks away but don't hold me to that,lol
It is good that we have the Castle Doctrine and CC here because I think it will be worse before it will get better.
Sabrina

That's what I thought until the last couple of months. Now I'm not so sure.

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I'm sorry, but very, very few people in North American truly understand what "hunger" really means. Honestly, most people don't really have any clue. They might THINK that they know what "hunger" means... they may have felt the pang of a missed meal, possibly two. They have no concept of NOTHING FOR DAYS.

My dad grew up during the depression. He has an idea. Even he will admit that true, debilitating hunger is relatively non-existent in this western world.

You want to see true hunger, visit a third world nation. Until then, Bob is right. Few people really know what TRUE hunger, what TRUE starvation means. A few do, admittedly, but there are programs that stave off the worst of it. People who are stealing at this point are either A) thieves who would steal anything, given the opportunity, or B) hungry kids whose parents aren't providing. My cousin lived in Las Vegas for a number of years through the late seventies and early eighties with her deadbeat mother who left my uncle and snatched my cousin on a visit. My cousin tells stories of being 8 years old and stealing food from people's gardens, just to have something in her stomach that day. THAT is hunger. When someone backs up a truck to your garden, THAT isn't hunger, that's simply thievery.

Big difference.

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Ignorance is the true enemy.

I've seen the village, and I don't want it raising my children.

www.newcenturyhomestead.com

If they are stupid enough to attempt to steal a gun here, pour pity on them is all I can say.
As I said, I don't feel I need to ever kill any one else and pray I never need to, but I sleep with a 9mil on my side of the bed as does my daughter. My wife has an sks on her side.
As I said, pour pitty on them they come in this house. We all know to hit the floor and shoot upwards as in don't shoot me and I won't shoot you, sweet heart.
They have see me with the .357, one of the 9's, along with Stacey wearing the .357 . She likes to wear it but she dosen't like shooting it. But they don't know that.
The 9's we have are from yugoslovia but they are duplicates of the Browning Hi-Power 9 mm's and Stacey out shoots me every time we go shooting. Which hasn't been much lately because of the cost of ammo and a small amount of money.
I know where you are coming from Richie, but what's more important to me, is they know where I am coming from. They know not only am I not going to play but niether is Stacey.
My wife probably wouldn't shoot anyone if it would save her life but I think Stacey has the steel in her to save her life. She was going up for a brown belt and lost interest in it and I can't get her back to school to save my life, but she could pull the trigger if she had to.
And as I said before, as a show of force, Stacey and I have both walked to the truck with both of us carrying an SKS with a 30 mag, and the .357 on imy hip when they were on the corner selling drugs. They don't stay arond long. I am not sure why, but they have just seemed to stop coming around pretty much.

If you look at the time of my post, you'll see I don't sleep alot at night and I also let that be known to the late night crowd that want's to deal drugs on the corner of the street I live on. Actually I pretty much live on cat naps like I did in the army. My best sleep is after the sun comes up and Stacey and Stephanie is saftly away for the day but even then I sleep as lightly as I did in Nam.

All in all, I would hate to be the "idiots" that would break into my home, day or night. The good part is, I am pretty sure they feel the same way. Remember, one of them called me da--ed nut.
What can I say. I just might be one.
We won't know if they don't come in my home, now will we????

It's the best way I know to deter these people. Let them see up front you won't play thier games. It may be a game to them, but not to me when my families life gets into it.

Dont bet YOUR life on what a cop says on the street.
Unless you were under an IMMEDIATE threat of death or severe bodily harm, you had NO RIGHT (under the LAW) to even POINT the gun at them.

§http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...S_14-51.1.html

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

They get hungry too

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

We have not seen real panic in this country in my 54 years. One thing I believe is that it is human nature to do anything to survive(ask the Donner party) so if food is unavailable elsewhere I am sure the masses will come to us to steal our farm animals and raid our gardens. If we ever have a nationwide panic due to disease, war, or natural disaster the only thing we'll be able to do is hide the food....But then will you say no to your extended family? How about your friends? How about a starving child?

Yeah yeah, whatever. You're Rambo, we're all very impressed.

Maybe they think you're a nut because you loose crossbow bolts randomly at anything that goes bump in the night.

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"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law." -- Winston Churchill

About 3 or 4 years ago I did have a couple of small kids steal some of my sweet corn out of my garden. My corn patch was located in front of my house next to the dirt road. They didn't get a very tasty meal as the corn wasn't near ready to be picked. I talked to their land lord about it and he talked to the parents. Their parents made them come over and apologize to me. Then when the corn was ready for picking, I picked a small plastic bag full and gave it to the kids so they could have some good eating peaches&cream corn. They were just being kids running around and having fun.

But if a grown up stops and helps theirselves without permission, that's gonna be a different story with a not so happy ending.

I'm guessing that when the time comes, many of the folks who will come looking to steal food will not know what they are doing.
I expect they will damage gardens by taking under ripe produce, and other floundering about.

With that in mind, we've decided to install a "Forest Garden" this year. We're also doing edible landscaping so that our food producing plants are not set out in a nice square or rectangle of space that screams "here's the food".

Protecting the livestock is not going to be as easy, but we are setting things in place with that need in mind.
We are double fencing our property. The outer fence is cheap as we can get by with, and is scrounged materials. It won't keep someone out, but it's a visual barrier, keeps dogs off of new plantings, and prevents people from reaching the stock.
In between the inner and outer fence, we are planting thorny shrubbery - which we will lay into a hedge once mature.
Our gates are kept locked.

We going to make signs that say we are a bio-secure farm. We've been discussing whether or not to put a bio-hazard symbol on them in hopes to scare/confuse potential trespassers.

OUr place was already built when we bought it, so we have to make due with how things are laid out -
But - when we have new projects to install, defending ourselves gets a lot of thought as we plan.
So we're creating a courtyard - (or a fort! ) type layout as we go.

I don't know if we will have things set up the way we need to in time - at the rate things are going. But we do expect this is coming and we are actively
doing what we can to prepare for it.

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Hut on the Hill Farm
http://www.hutonthehill.org

Well, from what Crafty has to say and from what I have seen and heard from those how live in high crime areas Crafty's life is very normal.

One preys that the siduation never happens but one prepares for the reality of ones siduation.

I do not like that in his area he feels that the problem lies in part strong enough to lable them bad people as "black". But I can accept that perhaps in his area the persons who are activly involed with crime are also black.

I can see where over time it could turn into a race issue. I injoy Crafty's post but I prey that he in real life knows that bad people are not sorted by race but that people are sorted by actions.

We are headed for hard times.

I agree!

When push comes to shove, it doesn't matter what Richie C's lawyering advice is, there will be a point where following the letter of the law will get you severely injured or killed if not the recipient of repeat offenses against yourself, your loved ones or your property.

My personal experience tells me to make it look outwardly to others that I have a very cold and lethal looking nature so that I do not have to actually do anything in actions. However, in that same vein, I have also come to terms with the fact that one day I may have to use lethal force to protect myself or my wife. While I do not want to face such a situation, I have come to the conclusion that I would rather be alive than dead and thus anything I have to do to that end has to be accepted as what was needed to be done.

My wife is an Okinawan Kenpo blackbelt and could defend herself bare handed or with her bo staff. I am far from being as skilled as she is in martial arts, but what little I do know goes to stopping a threat quickly and, if necessary, with brutal efficiency that will destroy joints and bones if not cause mortal injuries. I am also skilled enough with firearms and other items to stop threats by whatever force is required.

I don't view people I don't know with a welcoming manner if for whatever reason I have a sense that something is not right. I watch the people and drivers through my neighborhood with a suspicious eye due to regular activities that give me pause to ponder.

Related to gardening and such, we are growing container garden so that if we need to the pots can be brought inside or moved around. That is perhaps somewhat better security than having a fixed garden plot. I do, however, worry about my mother with her dairy goat herd and poultry in her rural area. If she were to have problems, then I might need to deal with those problems as needed.

No one is really hungry in this country, not like those in third world areas. There are, however, those who would find any excuse to thieve, burgle, rob or otherwise act criminal to their own ends. My response to acts perpetrated against my wife and I would be to make certain beyond a doubt that those criminals would never think to bother us again nor perhaps ever think to remain criminals. Think that I talk tough if one likes, but if someone makes themselves a clear and present danger to my wife and I then I will respond in a manner to neutralize that danger.

I know some people like Richie C think that only the law can handle problems and that only by following every letter of the law and using the courts and torts can one defend themselves. In the fields and the streets that isn't always the case.

Yes, I do think things can and will get worse, but I also know that there will be some who will beat back the hordes and make examples of them where needed. There will also be those who will help those who are truly in need. In both cases I seem reason for optimism.

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I would challenge anyone here to think of a question upon which we once had a scientific answer, however inadequate, but for which now the best answer is a religious one. – Sam Harris

I do think everyone is in the right that this country doesn't really understand hunger in the real sense of the world. Having been to a lot of those places myself, it is a staggering and difficult to watch problem that has deep causes best suited to another, more political forum.

That said, here is America as we approach harder times, and I do believe we are going to have a recession that will cause severe pain, it isn't so much hunger as the way a big element of our society is raised to think.

Plain and simple, this is a welfare nation. Many people really do believe they are "owed" a living and it isn't about denying a hungry child a meal. It is about that child's family who has a yard just like you, has the abiity to garden, just like you and will have certainly been offered seeds and starts...probably by someone just like you...but who won't grow food because that is work. They'll steal it instead because, after all, you owe them a living.

These people will be inherently dangerous not because they are truly desperate, but because they are truly bad and the milk money they are stealing out of our wallets isn't doing as much.

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Christy
Growing Human
http://growinghuman.blogspot.com

When wearing narrow lenses of hate and ignorance, is it any wonder one finds it difficult to see clearly? - Me

I am afraid you have a good point there!

Well, I guess that elaborates my "Thieves are thieves" a bit. LOL. (ps. I agree with you)

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We're hearing a lot about how the food pantries here are having bare shelves. I don't think anyone is arguing that donations are really up and it's all a facade.

But then I also hear about how a certain political party wants to have social services be more faith based in nature. They want Churches to provide medical care, food and shelter for the destitute.

Isn't the situation we're in enought to prove the fallacy of this notion? If Churches can't support food pantries now, how will they support all social services? Even in good times this will be impossible.

As for shooting veggie rustlers....you don't have to shoot AT them to make your point. Shooting in their general direction would be enough to get your point across.