do you think this would or will happen?

Tracy Rimmer · #41 05/13/08, 03:39 PM

I have two great big garden patches within easy view of the road. I intend to plant some of everything there this year. If these gardens do well, it will be more than enough to feed my family through the winter.

Having said that, the back field, visible by NO ONE, is where the majority of my growing is going on. People can't even see that area from my back yard. About the only way TO see it would be to be in it, or flying over it.

My Dad used to say that the best way to keep someone from finding something you didn't want found was by putting what they thought they wanted to find in a place that didn't take much effort to find it. People tend to put as little effort into anything as necessary -- thievery included -- and if you've got a garden patch out front, they're likely to steal from it and not even consider whether or not it's all there is.

I figure it's as good an "insurance" policy as any.

Alice Kramden · #42 05/13/08, 03:43 PM

Cattle country out here. Wonder if the old laws about cattle rustling are still on the books? I imagine the time will come when I hear someone trying to carve up some beef on the hoof.

I'm usually up most all night, on the internet reading, and it gets very, very quiet out here. The price of gasoline has cut into a lot of the traffic late at night on my road. Its very still and if anything makes the slightest noise, I hear it.

The grocery store manager told me that theft of meat and shoplifting has increased dramatically lately, and it is putting a bad hurt on his store. People will put the package of meat under their clothes, or in their purse. I just can't imagine. Time will come, I guess, to where there is a guard at the meat counter.

Scrap metal -- I see trailer after trailer of junk going to the scrap dealer. I've even seen folks scouring the railroad looking for scrap (I hope they were'nt taking the RAILS

), and trains with cars loaded with scrap.

Trying not to be a downer, but I think conditions are going to gradually go downhill more. Its just simply getting harder and harder to get by.

Old John · #43 05/13/08, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stranger

times and people. it was before America turned into the melting pot and we all took care of and respected each other. now if you offer some people a helping hand, they think there is strings attached and you want something.
thanks to the almighty dollar, the world has changed.

SEE Back Then........We were ALL AMERICANS.
we were not Asian Americans, Black Americans, African Americans, Hispanic Americans, German Americans, Italian Americans, etc, etc, etc.............

Yes, Back Then, We ALL took care of each other............
Because........We were ALL Americans, learning to BE Americans,
Learning the Language, Acting Like Americans............
THAT was the Melting Pot. It's Gone Now!
Sorry, I just kinda got Going there.
Take Care.

EasyDay · #44 05/13/08, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zong

When you were a kid, people knew they might get shot stealing. Now if somebody is in your yard stealing, you're not allowed to do anything, therefore more of it goes on. I understand that some states are passing a "Castle Doctrine" law where you have a few more rights, but of course, decent lawabiding citizens will never have as many rights as thieves.

They go pretty easy on shootin' folks around here. Primarily because they know that no LEO could get here in a reasonable amount of time. There's been a few cases in this state that, IMO, sound questionable at best. But, it works for me. At least I know I won't have to plan much of a defense before pulling the trigger.

RVcook · #45 05/13/08, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Queen Bee

It's happening around here also! An elderly man had all his chickens, chicks and eggs stolen in broad daylight a few days. The only thing they left were his old free range chickens! I am home alone--alot. I dare to say (I know it not legal -as another NC person told me in an earlier post) but I will shoot anyone that comes here to harm my animals or me AND since I don't know who might or might not be here to harm us--IF they are sneaking around (day or night), they might find themselves in a heap of trouble . They will have to clean their pants out! I am a GREAT shot and will make them think twice about being here..

I'm glad you said this because that is exactly what I was thinking. My husband said that no matter where "they're" from, pumping a 12ga shotgun gives a would-be predator/thief plenty of time to "re-think" their intentions! Gotta love that universal sound...

.

Donna H.

seedspreader · #46 05/13/08, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homesteadforty

Well... I do know... at least in my area. After this billing cycle I'll likely be giving up the last luxury I've been fighting to hold on to (this internet connection). I know a number of people that are doing the same.

Food stamps are becoming more difficult to apply for. Those that have been barely making it without them but need them now are almost S.O.L. Couple that with the fact that benefit amounts have not been raised and the food stamps are worth less (for those that do get them) because grocery prices have gone up so mouch and there is a real situation developing. Food pantries (at churches and charities) are getting less donations because the "haves" are needing to tighten their belts too. More people are going to the food pantries and getting less... if there's anything left at all. A number of the pantries are now open by appointment only so they can limit the number of people that are standing in line.

I've spent the last day and a half calling almost 75 local churches for energy assistance... most of them are not able to meet the needs of their parishoners, much less the general public. They have the same story as the food pantries... more needs and less donations. I actually asked two of the church offices about the situation. Those two churches said their requests for help have doubled since the first of the year.

I spoke with the manager at one of the local grocery stores... cases of shop lifting have more than doubled recently. Unless a huge sudden influx of "thieves" have moved into the area, I'd say that a lot of people that normally wouldn't steal are starting too. But I guess they were always just "thieves" at heart and have been waiting for their chance to start.

I don't intent to... and pray that I never get to the point that I feel like I must steal to survive but I think some otherwise decent people are finding themselves in a no win situation.

If you are calling this "hard times"... what are the folks that were already having "hard times" calling their situation... desperate times maybe???

It's not in this country but haven't you heard about the food riots in third world countries? People that had a diet a basically rice and flour (subsistant starvation) are rioting and looting. They weren't doing this a year ago... what has changed??? they went from hard times to desperation.

I saw a news report that in some areas people are actually mixing dirt into their flour and cornmeal to try to stretch it. I guess the "thieves" in America should be mixing and eating mud pies???

I think it's just a little bit more complicated than thieves are just thieves.

Got a link on the people in America mixing dirt in their flour and cornmeal? If you are speaking of Haiti, (which I am very involved with), we can agree that they are desperate.

As long as I have a computer, a house, or anything I can trade it for food. And if you are truly in as bad as a situation as you suggest and are saying you can't get food stamps in your area, I would contact your senator first and then the TV news station next (while you still have power/internet).

In my area, the food pantries and church food ministries are busy but doing fine. Not many churches give out "energy assistance" around here because there is such an abuse to it and the state also has an emergency assistance (check out HEAP and PIP *percentage of Income plan) program that doesn't allow households with children, invalids, fixed income, disabled folks to be shut off.

Here are a couple of Maryland links that are hopefully helpful:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=re...UqRrM2Td-N8WrQ

http://www.dhr.state.md.us/how/cashfood/fstamp.htm

Quote:

Benefits:
The Food Stamp Program helps low income people buy the food they need for good health. You may be able to get food stamps if you:

1. work for low wages,
2. are unemployed or work part time,
3. receive welfare or other public assistance payments,
4. are elderly or disabled and live on a small income, or
5. are homeless.

In Maryland, food stamp benefits are accessed through an Electronic Benefits Transfer System.

The Local Department of Social Services will give or mail to you a food stamp application on the same day you ask for one. You may ask for it in person, over the phone, or by mail; or someone else may get one for you.

Click here for Local Department of Social Services.

You may turn in your application form even if the local department cannot see you on that day.

Eligibility:

1. For food stamps, a household is usually a group of people who live together and buy and cook meals together. If you are eligible, we will calculate your food stamps based on how many people are in your household and on your income and expenses.
2. Almost all types of income count to determine if your household is eligible. Most households must have income at or below certain dollar limits before and after we subtract expenses.
3. Deductions from monthly gross income include: 20 percent of earned income, $134 standard deduction, dependent care deduction, any medical expenses more than $35 for elderly and disabled members, housing and legally owed and paid child support.
4. Households may have up to $2,000 in countable assets. This includes bank accounts. If a member of the household is 60 or older, the limit on countable assets increases to $3,000.
5. With some exceptions, able-bodied adults between 16 and 60 years of age must register for work, accept an offer of work and take part in employment and training activities.
6. There is no time limit on how long you can get food stamps. If you are getting Temporary Cash Assistance and your assistance ends, you may still get food stamps.

How to Apply:
Apply in your Local Office or through the internet.
For more information about applying, call 1-800-332-6347

Where to Apply:
# Apply at your Local Department of Social Services. Click here for a list of local departments to apply in person. You may file an application by mail, fax or other electronic means or someone may drop an application off for you.
# Apply online: Go to www.marylandsail.org to file your application.

Application Form:
Print an application from the DHR website fill it out and take it to your local department of social services. Please click here for an application form. You may file an application by mail, fax or other electronic means or you may have someone drop an application off at Local Department of Social Services.
Go to www.marylandsail.org to see a listing of other forms you may need.

What to Bring:

1. Proof of identity (driver�s license, ID card);
2. Proof of address, unless you are homeless (apartment or house lease, electric, gas, water or phone bill, rent book or receipt, or mortgage statement);
3. Social Security Number for everyone you are applying for. If you don�t have a number you will have to apply for one;
4. Proof of the amount all earned and unearned income before taxes or deductions (pay stubs for the past month or two, employer wage statement, benefit letters from Social Security, unemployment compensation, Veteran�s Administration or pensions)
5. Proof of shelter costs. If you want us to count your actual utility expenses you will have to verify them (rent or mortgage, insurance on your house, telephone, gas, electric, oil and water bills);
6. Proof of any cash or non-cash assets (most recent savings and checking account statement, value of stocks or bonds);
7. Proof of immigration status for non-citizens who are applying for food stamps (you do not have to provide any immigration information on people who are not applying for food stamps);
8. Proof of child support payments you make if you want us to consider the amount you pay (support order, separation agreement, child support records);
9. Proof of out-of-pocket medical expenses if you are age 60 or older or receive federal disability benefits (doctor or hospital bills; prescription receipts, receipts for over-the-counter medical expenses if prescribed by a medical practitioner; transportation costs to get to medical care);
10. Proof of child care expenses if you are working or looking for work or in training.

+ If you have trouble getting papers or information you need, ask the local department for help.

Am I Eligible?
Click here to see if you are potentially eligible for the Food Stamps.

Click here for details about this program.

Finally, I will stick by my saying that almost anyone who is stealing in America "because they are hungry" at this time, are stealing because they are thieves.

Farmerwilly2 · #47 05/13/08, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichieC

So what will happen to your animals when you are in jail?

What jail?? In this part of the country they've passed a 'castle doctrine' statute along with a cc statute. The chances of finding yourself charged, much less convicted by the folks of this county would be pretty slim if you were "defending your home and person against personal harm". Some parts of the world are not completely crazy yet. I look at someone stealing from me, especially my crops or animals differently I suppose. They didn't raise it, sweat or blister over it. I'm not their field hand, to work and break my back so they can have off with it. The best thing going for them is me not wanting to carry their death on my concious (sp) the rest of my days, so more than likely the best they'll get served is a for real butt kickin. I don't expect anybody to come back for seconds if you beat em badly enough the first time. Knock on the door and ask and you'll most likely get what you need, but try to steal it from us and it's on.

Ambassador · #48 05/13/08, 05:13 PM

You know, that is one of the reasons I would be afraid to take up farming / homesteading - as much of a benefit it is for yourself and your family. It kind of reminds me of the movie War of The Worlds (with Tom Cruise)... when they were the only ones with a van, they got stomped out by everyone else on foot and the van became something not worth fighting for. There will be a point or another where food shortages will affect everyday lives - hopefully never, but it is just a numbers game right now. I suppose either hide your stuff, or make it not worth their time!

Fortunately, there's lot of ways to do that. Unfortunately, there's lots of ways to fail as well.

Patt · #49 05/13/08, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice Kramden

Cattle country out here. Wonder if the old laws about cattle rustling are still on the books? I imagine the time will come when I hear someone trying to carve up some beef on the hoof.

We have had that happen out here too. Someone's calf went missing, they found it in the woods on the other side of their fence field butchered like a deer.

Patt · #50 05/13/08, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedspreader

Got a link on the people in America mixing dirt in their flour and cornmeal? If you are speaking of Haiti, (which I am very involved with), we can agree that they are desperate.

As long as I have a computer, a house, or anything I can trade it for food. And if you are truly in as bad as a situation as you suggest and are saying you can't get food stamps in your area, I would contact your senator first and then the TV news station next (while you still have power/internet).

In my area, the food pantries and church food ministries are busy but doing fine. Not many churches give out "energy assistance" around here because there is such an abuse to it and the state also has an emergency assistance (check out HEAP and PIP *percentage of Income plan) program that doesn't allow households with children, invalids, fixed income, disabled folks to be shut off.

That statement followed info about food shortages overseas so I assumed they weren't talking about America.

They have run News stories here showing empty food pantries. A lot of them are hurting!

artsyfarmer · #51 05/13/08, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mommagoose_99

A few years back I had neighbors stealing from my market garden. Morons did not realize I could follow their tracks back to their house in the morning dew.
Linda

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueHeronFarm

OK...now that's funny.

HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bluesky · #52 05/13/08, 06:51 PM

I work at home alone and keep the shotgun next to my desk. (I'm not sure I could actually shoot somebody unless they were harming me or mine, but I would certainly fire a shot out the window to try to scare somebody off). We live on an isolated road and even with the dogs, I'm worried that somebody might try to break into the barn or raid the garden. We've worked hard for what we have. We share with co-workers and neighbors and often put things out at the curb marked "free", but the idea of somebody stealing our stuff just makes me crazy!

Rocky Fields · #53 05/13/08, 06:58 PM

Hey.

People have been stealing sweetcorn out of the fields for years. I know of one farmer who had a cow killed and the thieve(s) took the hind quarters off of it. I had people stealing fruit from our orchard at our old homestead.

RF

seedspreader · #54 05/13/08, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patt

That statement followed info about food shortages overseas so I assumed they weren't talking about America.

Well, I know about the Haitians as I have been conversing with a couple of American ladies who run an orphanage there. They have been making dirt cookies for a couple of years in Haiti now, which is due in a big part to corruption in their country. They take the dirt and mix it with shortening and salt... it's very sad. I've not heard of any other countries mixing dirt with flour and cornmeal. As I said THAT is indeed desperation. If it's happening in America we need to know about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patt

They have run News stories here showing empty food pantries. A lot of them are hurting!

I know they've been busy and tighter than normal, but I hadn't heard of any shutting down. Second Harvest (one of the largest food ministry/pantries) is urging passage of the Farm Bill to help relieve some of the pressure on the pantries. As I said, hard times... times that will reveal character.

For those who believe we have it bad in the U.S., I urge you to travel to some third world countries... and ultimately, if we really believe it's bad here (or desperate as some seem to think) then how is it in the rest of the world? It's time for us to give more than we ever have before to help out.

Haitians are dying in haphazard home made boats trying to get to this "desperate" country.

tamsam · #55 05/13/08, 07:42 PM

OK I may be wrong and if so someone tell me. Years ago NC passed a law that you had the right to defend and protect yourself, if you felt threatened. If you confront someone in your yard and they threaten you or make you feel threatened you have the right to defend yourself however you choose. I found this out in 1997 when confronted a couple boys in my driveway after they followed my daughter home. I met them with a 12ga and held them there until the police arrived. One of them made the statement he should have let me shoot him and me go to jail. The police laughted and told him he was lucky I didn't do him and his buddy in as I had every right to do so. Now they may have changed the law since then. I know I will stand my ground here. Sam

soulsurvivor · #56 05/13/08, 07:54 PM

I remember back in the late 50s when we had a thief stealing gas from our farm tank. Daddy posted a sign warning them to stop taking the gas. Didn't work, so he took down the sign and set out bear traps. That worked, but lost a good bear trap.

I'm never so concerned about "things" as much as I am "life", mainly my family and self's life. You come threatening life and you'll have the same issue to face.

YuccaFlatsRanch · #57 05/13/08, 07:56 PM

"So what will happen to your animals when you are in jail?"

Maybe in Liberal New Hampshire, but not in Texas. Have you all not heard of the "Castle Doctrine"?? The CD extends to my gardens and pastures too. You steal in an SHTF time - you gonna be dead. My only problem is where to dump your rotten stinking carcass.

Goatguy · #58 05/13/08, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YuccaFlatsRanch

My only problem is where to dump your rotten stinking carcass.

Pretty sure your pigs and chickens would take care of it in less than a day or two... That is if you want to play the truly frugal, using everything, extreme homesteading card

ChristyACB · #59 05/13/08, 08:33 PM

Castle Doctrine is great! Even if you don't have it passed, there are allowances for the interpretation of self-defense. For example: In this town we have had home invasions and even less than a mile from here there is occasional violence and gunplay.

That means I am in a "stressed environment" and if I catch someone creeping around my backyard at night, I am NOT going to wait to see if they are a rapist and murderer or just a thief and rapist. Instead, I'm going to feel very threatened, in imminent danger and will shoot them in the face.

There is no way I would be charged with anything here for that. There is simply too much predatory dangerous crime for me to not feel threatened with imminent harm.

Make sense?

Oldcountryboy · #60 05/13/08, 09:05 PM

Hold ups are on the rise in our state of Oklahoma. If you happen to go in a conveniant store restroom or if you live at a apartment complex and have to walk to your apartment theres a greater danger of someone holding you up, demanding all your cash and credit cards.

Just yesterdays evening news they showed a young man who was suckered punched and knocked out while in the restroom. When he came to his wallet was missing. He said just as he turned around a black man hit him right between the eyes with his fist and that's the last thing he remembered. His forhead was swollen and both eyes blackened.

If your capable of packing, do it.