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04/07/08, 12:03 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NC/Blue Ridge foothills
Posts: 1,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fantasymaker
Could you explain this? Im just not getting what you are trying to say.
Part of the problem here is that we dont know WHAT faithfullone is trying to buy.
Nor do we know where he wants to buy
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In many cases here in IL you are looking at perfectly square totally open square miles with the corners either marked or apparent.
So a 2 1/2 acre parcel could be either very easy or very hard for the layman to locate by aloquit parts.
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On close inspection, you would find that all sections in Illinois and thruout the PLSS areas vary from a perfect square mile sometimes by only a little but all too often by a lot. To me, 5280' plus or minus 5' is a lot but many sections vary from exactly a mile in each dimension by hundreds and in some extreme cases by thousands of feet..
Therein, lies the problem in aliquotically creating a new parcel without an accurate survey. While it may be legal to convey a new tract of land with merely a general description, it does leave open the question of just where the limits of that land is on the ground. Some people get very upset over as little as 2' of ground.
__________________
Population keeps on breeding
Nation bleeding, still more feeding economy
Life is funny, skies are sunny
Bees make honey, who needs money, monopoly
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World pollution is no solution
Last edited by hillsidedigger; 04/07/08 at 12:10 PM.
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04/07/08, 12:15 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NC/Blue Ridge foothills
Posts: 1,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fantasymaker
Often a surveyer is a good idea but the founding fathers of our nation went thru a lot of trouble to create a system where the average person could reliably loacte an average parcel.
In fact even the USA government uses this system to deed lands without a survey.
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"the average person could reliably locate an average parcel. (only if it were already accurately and visibly staked)"
It is true that an average person could write an aliquot description but they still could not likely place it correctly on the ground within many or even many dozens of feet.
__________________
Population keeps on breeding
Nation bleeding, still more feeding economy
Life is funny, skies are sunny
Bees make honey, who needs money, monopoly
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World pollution is no solution
Last edited by hillsidedigger; 04/07/08 at 12:17 PM.
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04/07/08, 05:42 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fantasymaker
Could you explain this? Im just not getting what you are trying to say.
Part of the problem here is that we dont know WHAT faithfullone is trying to buy.
Nor do we know where he wants to buy
.
In many cases here in IL you are looking at perfectly square totally open square miles with the corners either marked or apparent.
So a 2 1/2 acre parcel could be either very easy or very hard for the layman to locate by aloquit parts.
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most of the land is bottom land, but about 2-3 acres are up by the road, wooded and hilly with a old entrance, possibly a old house place.
There is a fence south of the land, and a road on the west side going north/south, the wooded section is in the south-western part of the property connering the road and that fence.
Keep posting guys, you folks sure have given me some good advice, it sure does sound like a survey and a abstract search.
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If you don't want to hire an atty, find an experienced land realtor & ask if they'll do it for X dollars, many times they'll guide a transaction through without their full commission - especially in down times.
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That sounds like a promising ideal!
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04/07/08, 06:48 PM
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Sugarstone Farm
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 811
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Start with the county clerk. In our county, only one house per 20 acres is allowed. You can sell off 5 acres, but the buyer may not be able to build.
This happened a few miles from us. Family sold a few acres off their 40 acre farm to son # 1 who built a home. They then sold 5 acres to son # 2. Son # 2 put in a driveway and well and went to get his building permit and was denied because only 2 houses are allowed on the 40 acres. You need to find out before you spend a lot of money getting halfway there. I think you can appeal, but no guarantee you will get approved on appeal either.
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04/08/08, 12:12 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: IL, right smack dab in the middle
Posts: 6,787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillsidedigger
"the average person could reliably locate an average parcel. (only if it were already accurately and visibly staked)"
It is true that an average person could write an aliquot description but they still could not likely place it correctly on the ground within many or even many dozens of feet.
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I disagree. That was the point of the rectangular net . And it worked! Very few of the individual parcels in IL were surveyed by surveyors .In fact huge amounts of land were simply stepped off from the nearest marker. AND THEY DID A GOOD JOB! People still can even though in some ways its a bit tougher now
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04/08/08, 06:15 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North Carolina piedmont
Posts: 34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fantasymaker
I disagree. That was the point of the rectangular net . And it worked! Very few of the individual parcels in IL were surveyed by surveyors .In fact huge amounts of land were simply stepped off from the nearest marker. AND THEY DID A GOOD JOB! People still can even though in some ways its a bit tougher now
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I think the point of the PLSS was and is to describe land - and it does work for that general purpose, but I would not trust an average citizen to properly step off and calculate double proportion for my plot of land - heck, I wouldn't trust my self as I don't work in a PLSS state. There is quite a difference between doing a good job and doing a job correctly.
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04/08/08, 08:57 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: IL, right smack dab in the middle
Posts: 6,787
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As a lot of professsionals in their own line of work do , I think you missed the point .Its not about perfection is about having a system that works.
It did work ,its still works and how can you argue with success? Its not perfect,it needs to be used with some common sence and inteligence ,but its a great system.
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04/08/08, 09:05 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NC/Blue Ridge foothills
Posts: 1,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fantasymaker
I disagree. That was the point of the rectangular net . And it worked! Very few of the individual parcels in IL were surveyed by surveyors .In fact huge amounts of land were simply stepped off from the nearest marker. AND THEY DID A GOOD JOB! People still can even though in some ways its a bit tougher now
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So, misunderstandings of maybe 5' or 50' or more in the position of boundary lines have never caused a problem?
__________________
Population keeps on breeding
Nation bleeding, still more feeding economy
Life is funny, skies are sunny
Bees make honey, who needs money, monopoly
...
World pollution is no solution
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04/08/08, 09:43 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: IL, right smack dab in the middle
Posts: 6,787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillsidedigger
So, misunderstandings of maybe 5' or 50' or more in the position of boundary lines have never caused a problem?
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Sure they do its what keeps surveyors employed. And its the reason surveyors have a skewed view. But most properties are fine.
Its sorta like a Doctor all they ever see is sick people but it doesn't mean everyone is so sick they cant function.
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04/08/08, 01:29 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North Carolina piedmont
Posts: 34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fantasymaker
As a lot of professsionals in their own line of work do , I think you missed the point .Its not about perfection is about having a system that works.
It did work ,its still works and how can you argue with success? Its not perfect,it needs to be used with some common sence and inteligence ,but its a great system.
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Maybe we're talking past each other - PLSS is a GREAT way to 'describe' a piece of land and find it on a tax map - and it is great at organizing the bulk of the land in the US, so yes it is quite successful at what it does well and it will continue to do so. It does not set your corners for you or show you where you can build a fence, nor does it make it particularly easy for the lay person to ascertain these things. Here's a link to the 1973 Manual of Surveying for your reading pleasure.
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04/08/08, 04:44 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: IL, right smack dab in the middle
Posts: 6,787
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LOL I haven't read that in years ! Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
I don't think we are going to convince each other and I'm pretty sure that we have said all that anyone else wants to hear on the subject so I think Ill end my part of the discussion by saying ,Thank You . You reawakened some long dormant brain cells!
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