Extrememe bare minimum to live?

Barting for them is hard after the stay. The trick is to barter for them before you need them. It can be done.

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If the grass looks greener it is probably over the septic tank. - troy n sarah tx

Our existance here is soley for the expoitation of CMG

What I love is working for myself and my family (when I get one). Tending my animals, gardens, and all that other good stuff. I also love anythign that is considered independence. Whether that is making my own cheese, wine, yogurt, or welding my own gate instead of buying one. Anything that I can do myself and not pay/go to the store for I will.

Independence is where I get the greatest joy in life. hauling water, doing laundry and cutting some wood should NEVER take 20 hours a week, and if it does, I either haven't done it in a long time and need to catch up, or I'm doing somethign wrong.

Hauling water is not hard, I do it everyday already. I can pump 50 gallons in 8 minutes and if the well was close enough to my house, I could carry in a 3 or 5 gallon bucket full in just another couple of minutes. Doing laundry may take some time, I really don't know, never done it by hand. But again, i can't imagine it would take the time that you are proposing. And Lastly, If I spent 20 straight hours cutting wood, I would have one heck of a pile. Unless I am building up a stockpile for winter or something, i can't even come close to imagining why I would spend 20 hours EVERY week cutting wood.

Your either misinformed, doing it wrong yourself, or exagerating.

If I had to guess I would think that you are exagerating, and then I would speculate as to why one would exagerate about something that's only result would be to discourage a young and hopeful homesteader. Doesn't make sense to me.

I realize you are trying to be helpful, but please try and be helpful in a way that actually is helpful. Sarcasm, exageration, and outright negativity is NOT helpful.

Richie, that is not directed completely at you, so don't take it too personally, but to everyone that has so far tried "helping" in ways that were all in all destructive to my motivation and confidence.

I want advice on HOW to achieve my dream, not reasons why I can't, shouldn't, or won't.

Also 100 years ago my daughter maybe would have lost her life to her foot infection and my other daughter might have lost her life at 5 to a raging kidney infection. I would have lost my life two times over from tubal pregnancies. My husband would have died at 13 to a bicycle accident that landed him in ICU (bruised liver) for two weeks. I could go on and on. I can't believe Goatguy has spent any time in a hospital setting to not understand this stuff. Has the hospital rotation not happened yet? I don't mean to be negative, I really don't, but sometimes reality needs to at least be in the front seat somewhere.

An interesting perspective...we are a family of 5 paying $14,000 a year for health ins. w/ $5000 ded. no dental
We are young and healthy....still we pay for those uninsured people that use the ER for treatment

Morningstar

yes, I have spent time in the hospital settings. I have had a few semesters of clinicals so far. And yes, I agree, Bad things happen, people get sick, people get hurt, Its part of life. But what happened to your kids, yourself, and your husband is FAR from normal. I dont' mean this in a bad way, but your family is EXTREMELY unlucky.

The average family would not have any of the problems, or accidents that yours seemed to. I am very glad that you had insurance (assuming you did) for the things that happened to you and your family. But just because it happened to you does not mean it will happen to me.

You want me to be "realistic", well, realistically, the statistical chance of those things happening to my family is just to small to worry myself over. Yes, one or two of those things could happen, but its that so bad that my work/savings/lifestyle wouldn't be able to absorb it.

I want to live a realistic life, but to me, that lifeis a life that does not involve worrying about that bad things that may be waiting in the shadows around that next corner.

I reccomend watching the movie called "Gattaca". About a fellow who has a heart condition and is told that he shouldn't pilot a space craft (its set in the future). He does not let this stop him from his dreams, sure, his heart may fail, but it if it does, it will be up in space where he dreams and yearns to be. Watch it, its a good one

We paid for ours with cheese.

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http://www.mofga.org/

http://www.mofga.org/Programs/FarmAp...2/Default.aspx

Home insurance/tax : $50/year is what we pay.

Food: $100/month is about what we do pay, we do grow a large part of our food.

Animals: $50/month, *1

car: 0 *2

Annual garden: $10/month, *3

clothes: $20/month

Basic home repairs: $50/month

utilities: $30/month, I would keep this for running the well and electric fencing

misc. : $100/month (unexpected costs/repairs/bills)

phone: $0 there is no true need for a phone. I have been asked at our Farm's Market why I carry a cellphone. I am the only farmer there who carries one.

refrigerator and freezer: $0 these are truly not needed. A farmer in 1700 did not need one. A farmer in 1800 did not need one. A farmer today does not need one.

internet / higher electricity to cover a PC / satellite: are all fine and dandy items but again they are not needed, they are luxuries.

$410/month or $5k/year;

This past year we grossed $1,000 from our farm. We expect to see about $3,000 next year, and increases after that.


*1 - this seems like a lot. But it all depends. Right now we are building our herds and flocks so we are spending $110 a year. But then again we are earning a bit too, so in total last year our 'animal' books came out at about even.

*2 - "bare minimum to survive" We are dreaming here anyway so let us dream. If you setup a location within a mile of a community Farmer's Market, then you could use a push cart to haul all of your produce to market, and simply do not require a car.

*3 - Why are you buying seeds year after year? I don't. However I will allow for hoses and greenhouse repairs.

goatguy -
check out all posts by simpleman

and here's his web page, I don't know if it's updated, but it should appeal to your 'basic' premise and nature.

http://groups.msn.com/livingoffthela...pgmarket=en-us

Angie

__________________
"Live your life, and forget your age." Norman Vincent Peale

I CAN DEFINITELY SEE WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM.

I AGREE COMPLETELY.

I HATE TO TELL YOU THIS, BUT NOT ALL WOMEN ARE LIKE THAT. IN FACT, IN OUR HOUSEHOLD, IT'S EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE!!!

I AGREE COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY WITH MAMAHEN.

I AGREE COMPLETELY.

You've received a lot of "advice". Some good, some....well let's just say some trying to suggest that you be "cautious". I have lived on less than $10,000.00 a year. It's not easy sometimes. In some ways it's no problem at all, especially once you get used to being frugal. The only area in which I agree with the more "cautious" remarks, is in the area of children. You will have to plan more carefully, and have some sort of savings for emergency situations. Bad things happen, not all the time, and not to everyone, but better safe than sorry.

Most of all, good luck, and be happy. Just start out slow, don't jump in to the deep end in the beginning. And do try what some mentioned, working part time, weekend or nights, or for a temporary service.

__________________
If it needs a home, it ends up here!

So all you want is affirmation? Fine. Ra-ra, go team.

Try living this way yourself, first. And understand that what people have written above about social services taking a kid raised in the cirmstances you outline is not an exaggeration at all. It really could happen.

__________________
"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law." -- Winston Churchill

I work as a nurse. This job took me several years to get good at. I think it would be a more balanced, enjoyable life to work 1 day a week every week than 2 months a year. You are going to lose your skills/never develop your skills which will make those 2 months utter misery for you and everyone around. I worked one 12 hr day a week for 2 years when my son was young. Very nice. I calculate that would end up around $17,000 before taxes.
Heidi

Honestly, if it's just you, I agree with you 110% but when you add in a pregnant wife (I understand you don't have one at the moment?) and children down the line. Crap happens. Period. These things are not over a short amount of time. My husband and I are inching towards 40 and have three children, the oldest 14 years old. Talk to someone, anyone, over 30 that has had a few kids and see how many of them think that going sans insurance is a fabulous idea. I actually am really surprised that as a nursing patient (that has gone through your hospital rotations) you think that we are just "unlucky". My mom has worked in the hospital 30 years, those places are pretty full, doctors office's are too. My neighbor's boy needed stitches like 8 times while growing up and broke a few bones along the way. You don't think any of the kids will need braces? My one daughter with bad teeth is going to cost around $5-$6 thousand dollars when all is said and done. Don't fix them you say? Cosmetic? Nope, sorry, having bad teeth that drool is not optional and teeth that are spaced so closely together actually can cause health problems. You should always take care of your teeth. Now you could go public health/medical card since you probably would qualify but you said you didn't want to go that route.

Anyways, I appreciate the fact that you are 22 and I have no doubt over the years you will change some of your ideals. I don't mean that sarcastically, I was 22 once, and lets just say I'm really happy to be inching towards 40. You should realize that this is advice from someone that has ACTUALLY lived like you want to live and know lots of people that still do. My parents were hippies, we drove back and forth across the US like 8 times (living in our truck along the way) when I was young, we lived without running water or electricity and all of that. We lived on a commune, we lived in a cabin that you had to hike two miles back to get too, you get the picture. Right now I live way in the woods with a satellite internet connection in a tent (ok, Yurt, basically a 30' round canvas fancy tent). I also gave birth to my 3rd child in this tent with a midwife, in a horse water trough (only used for birthing of course! not like a used one). My sister gave birth to her second about 20 feet away on her Yurt's porch in the same tub. Don't think this is from someone who is sitting in some house in some big city. Just so you know .

RichieC

That is not at all what I meant. In that post I explained what I meant the best way I could. I'm sorry, there must be a communication gap between us somewhere. Just respond how ever you feel you should and I'll make do the best I can. Thanks for trying anyhow.

I wanted to add one more thing (and then sheesh I need to step away from this computer!). I think you can find a woman. I am the one that needs less then my husband, not the other way around.

Also I can't remember if you already got a book list but I own these and like them all. This is besides to the basic "homesteading books" of course. There are others but these are the ones off the top of my head. I liked Mortgage Free and another book that I can't remember the name of! I have to search my many book shelves. Someone else may remember it. The guy (I think Canadian?) about living more, working less, something along those lines maybe??? Well, I need to get to work around here but I can see if I can find it later, it is a really good book and I think you would like it.

Mortgage Free by Roy

Living On Less put out by Mother Earth News

Your Money Or Your Life by Dominquez and Robin

I don't know about absolute values. They seem low, but maybe that's just me. It's certainly a goal to try for, though, and it wouldd be interesting to see how well you do with it. If you start out with very low figures you can always raise them.

Personally, I would rather work full time and get some money in the bank and work it that way than try and work few hours a week and get the money in small amounts. It just seems safer to me.

But when you are young a lot of stuff seems possible. That's one of the great things about young people.

Go get 'em, tiger!

Jennifer

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-Northern NYS

You did not say, but I had meant that my numbers would be for two adults and a child.

Right now we are not doing the absolute minimum, we are building a large home and setting up our farm, so it does cost us a lot more.

A good exercise in frugal living would be to examine your electrical breaker box. Turn off one breaker. Now live a month and adjust to life without whatever services that circuit provided you with. You will save money and learn a skill or four.

Then turn off a second circuit, and do it again.

You can do your laundry by hand. I have. A 5-gallon bucket and a toilet plunger works fine, and hang your clothes outside on a line.

You can live on what you get - most people do.

I admire you dream to go for this lifestyle.

and this is a little beyond the remit of the original question, but have you considered the social side of things.

As someone who works from home it can be a big adjustment to living most of your life on your own. It's one thing to do it with a family, another to undertake almost everything by yourself.

Planning to work regularly, but part time, will give you some structure in your life, and give you opportunity just to get over the cabin fever from time to time. It'll also let you build up experience, which will count a lot to getting you new jobs.

The trouble you may find in working for a few years first and saving money is that you may well not save it. Most people get distracted by the bright lights conveniences and toys in life.

why not work 2 days a week? you'd make the same, with a steady income and the opportunity for more income if there was an emergency.

and have you checked feed prices or are you planning to grow your own feed and hay?? for all the animals??

__________________
Let a smile be your umbrella against the thunderstorms of life.
have a great day.
when i call on Jesus, all things are possible.

This is how I've calculated our expenses whenever we can get onto the land, and assuming that I'm still working full time.


Home tax : $150/month (We don't practice insurance, forbidden by Scripture)
Food: $200/month - Also includes toilet paper, garbage bags etc, and whatever food I don't have time to raise.
Animals: $10/month - No shots, no vets, no extras. Just forage and grains.
Vehicle: $250/month - Got to drive 45 minutes to work somehow
Annual garden: $20/month - We save seeds, so all I'd need is new shovels, fixing rototiller etc. And yes, ALL BY HAND! No tractors or large machines.
Clothes: $100/month - My wife is a goodwill phreak, and finds insane deals. I go through shoes like crazy.
Basic home repairs: $50/month
Misc. : $250/month - Just in case, spending

grand total = $1030/month about $12,000/year. And since I always save half, I need $24,000 to live this lifestyle. If I'm not working, I can cut the car out and use my bike (Not joking, I lived three years like this)

I'm assuming that I use solar electricity, rainwater for domestic use, wood for heat grown on our land, and no debt. It's all very possible, and is done by thousands of people all over the world.