Extrememe bare minimum to live?

Aintlifegrand · #61 04/04/08, 02:25 PM

I think with your job and the increasing demands in your field...that you can do this because you can always jump in and make some quick money at amoments notice as you said...I think also, that people do not need as much money as they think to live on...and there are women out there who would share your dream and have no issues with doing things the way you have planned...So I say go for it...and if it does get too tight monetarily..so what? You could easily pick up a couple of shifts a week for awhile...people should live how they want as long as they are willing to care for their family without any govt. assistance. Enjoy. OBTW..we hauled water for nearly two years..boiled it for bathing, washing, cooking, animals, gardening,..etc.. it is not that bad..before you know it..you don't even relaize that this lifestyle isn't what you have always done..we have lived without plumbing for two years. I go to work everyday and make more than enough money to live differently..I choose not to.

TxAprilMagic · #62 04/04/08, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goatguy

Well... The way I figure it, I will have my nursining RN license in another year. So I will have the medical training to assess and treat the most common human problems.

Also, the experience I have with my animals I could easily use on humans. If I can set a broken leg on my goat, I can't see why I couldn't (after several shots of whiskey) set a broken leg on myself too. If I can give pennicillin injections to my sick cow, I don't see why the same wouldn't work for me too. Not to mention how amazingly well some herbal/alternative therapies work.

And if God wants me so badly as to give me something like cancer, then I guess why argue with him and he can just have me? Death and sickness is part of life, I feel confident in dealing with it as best as I could which is surely better than what the best doctor could have done 80 years ago.

So we will be watching our t.v. waiting for them to arrest you for practicing medicine without a license. Being an RN does not make you a doctor and the law will agree. I would like to see what happens when the law finds out you set your child's broken arm after giving her a couple of shots of whiskey and you didn't seek medical attention. Your answer to the jury should be interesting if not (how your described) intrigueing. Now , if GOD wanted you so bad he wouldn't give you cancer to slowly die and be a burden on your family he would just take your butt in a blink of an eye.
My question to you is., What does your wife say about all of this not working thing.

Betho · #63 04/04/08, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNKY PIONEER

How the heck are you doing groceries for $100 a month? I have 5 almost 6 kids and I can't get out of the grocery store for less that $1000 a month. (granted we have no animals or garden)

But if you didn't have to buy any meat, veggies, fruit, etc. and bought wheat in bulk, ground it yourself to bake bread, etc. what sort of things would you really need at the store? I think it's reasonable to spend $100/mo at the store if 80% of your food needs are self-produced.

FUNKY PIONEER · #64 04/04/08, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betho

Think about the logistics of washing soiled reusable diapers with no running water or electricity.

Its not very hard using one of these, http://www.lehmans.com/jump.jsp?item...erID=77&KICKER. I've done it, takes about 1/2 hour to wash diapers.

TxAprilMagic · #65 04/04/08, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goatguy

Laughala, You are right the clothes budget should be able to come down a substantial amount. About getting a job that has health insurance, thats defeating the purpose. The point of living on such a little amount isn't so taht I can have a good job and put all the rest of the money into savings, it would be so that my wife and I could spend every moment of our lives doing what we love with the people we love. Having a full time job makes that about impossible.

The babies health is important yes, I agree very much. However I disagree on how often babies get sick (seriously sick). Unlike a third world child, mine would not have malnutrition, mine woudl have been vaccinated against the most common and worst diseases. Infections happen, but they are rare, and even more rare to get one that a healthy immune system can't handle itself. If the need actually arose, I could always take the kid to the doctor, get some anitobiotics and be on my way. A cost like that certainly would not kill me, I just might have to work an extra week longer that year.

All in all, if the average person woudl just eat well, exercise, and be happy, the chances of them getting sick is extremely low. There is also a chance of a car wreck, or something catastrophic, But I choose not to live my life worrying and prepareing for the bad things that will probably never happen.

All I can say to this post is "Oh My". You don't live in the world that the rest of us live in. Give me directions to your side of the planet.

FUNKY PIONEER · #66 04/04/08, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betho

But if you didn't have to buy any meat, veggies, fruit, etc. and bought wheat in bulk, ground it yourself to bake bread, etc. what sort of things would you really need at the store? I think it's reasonable to spend $100/mo at the store if 80% of your food needs are self-produced.

I think your right. But I think I would still spend more than $100 a month. 100lb of wheat is about $40, what about renet or cheese making supplies if you wanted cheese, Sugar ( I guess you could have a sugar cane field in the right spot) Chocolate, I can't live with out chocolate, LOL. I just don't see how you can do it for that cheep even with a garden and animals.

hintonlady · #67 04/04/08, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goatguy

Not to mention the SEVERE unlikelyhood that the child would come down with such a disease in the first place. The chances of the kid getting it is just too low to even think about.

If that is a risk your willing to take be prepared to either get lucky or pay the consequences.

Just because something COULD happen, does not mean I should ruin my life planning for it. If worst comes to worst, then someone goes to the hospital and I go to work for a few more months. But really, I think your exagerating the claim that kids get sick "all the time". Kids get the sniffles, and a cough now and then, but not every kid on the block is going to come down with cancer, meningitis, or be in need of surgery.

Right because things like tonsils, needing eyeglasses, stitches for an injury, braces for teeth etc. are so far fetched. How about the lawyers fees for keeping your kid after child services starts analyzing your philosophies on life.

Did you even consider your childs best interest or just your desires? How about college?

Yes, I have had many years expirience gardening. And though its not as easy as "dropping seeds into the ground" I think it is easier than many make it out to be. Yes, i could test the soil, adjust for pH, and the perfect amounts of fertilizer, ect. Or I could just plant the things and watch them. Plants will tell you what they need, watch the soil dampness, leave color, and stem growth and you'll have a very good idea of how the plants are performing in the conditions. Gardening CAN be a science, but it certainly doesn't need to be. After all, I'm not looking to produce every possible bushell out of my garden, I just want to grow the needs of my family and maybe a little more.

Got a tractor, tiller or other equipment? Plan to do it by hand.... okay
What about drought?

If you think keeping 4 or 5 goats full of hay costs more than $50 a month than you are paying WAY too much for your hay. Especially considering that that is a monthly average, and the goats don't get hay during the summer unless its unusually dry and the grass/weeds aren't growing.

I raise sheep, have almost 40 right now and raise several acres of hay, (by several I mean 40) Do you plan on milking these goats, animals in milk or pregnant need good hay and plenty of it, feeding their young to butcher size? Any grain supplements? You never mentioned what kind of stock or how many. Nor did you mention how many acres you have in pasture and how you plant it. How many bales of hay do you plan to fit into that rabbits trunk?

As far as sickness in the stock, yes it happens, but again, watch the signs, know the animals your tending and usually all is well.

Until a coyote tears one of those goats in half. Better add $25 for livestock guard dog food too.

Yes, i can and do change my oild, except in the winter when I absolutely hate getting under the car because of the slush (of course, if I had to, I would). but so far I just pay for the 1 or 2 winter changes to be done for me. I claim no expertise in car mechanics, but I figure I can do MOST things myself, I have so far. I think if I can change the clutch and head gasket in my car, I can probably do most things.

Yeah, and work for a week or two to buy the parts, no?

I am trying to take your comments as constructive things to think about, but for the most part they just came off as negative and almost insulting. If I read it all wrong, please feel free to tell me so.

Perhaps I am harsh, but I honestly believe you are in for a world of painful lessons. You seem to think you have the world by the cojones which is nice and easy at 22. Thing is though, ask anybody 30 or older....life has a funny way of taking you down a notch or two, especially when you think you have it all under control.

Maybe next time consider posting without the rhetorical questions. Seems to me you didn't want advice. Never want to detract you or tell you it can't be done.

Best advice, try it as a single man for a couple years. Your plenty young to start a family when you have the homestead ready to go. Dragging a helpless infant into a lifestyle that can be lean and risky is just selfish. There was a reason men had their homes built and plots planted before they proposed to their lady love back in the day.

I'd rather try to live my dream and fail than not and live a life of regret wondering "what would have happened" and "I wonder if I could have made it after all"

After you have kids their needs take priority over your dreams. Lose sight of that and you will have a whole new set of regrets. As soon as you think you know it all nature, fate or God will tremind you that you don't. Being cocky is costly.

Homesteading is an amazing way to live and raise kids, no doubt about it. Nothing compares to the peace of mind it offers, UNTIL ..........

That's my point.

Good luck to you young buck.

FUNKY PIONEER · #68 04/04/08, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxAprilMagic

All I can say to this post is "Oh My". You don't live in the world that the rest of us live in. Give me directions to your side of the planet.

Oh yeah wait until that middle of the night ear infection that needs an ER vist, or the first time your kid needs stitches. You must have health insurance for kids, or you'll end up with a $5,000 bill in the blink of an eye. I have 5 extreemly healthy kids and we still average an ER visit every 6 months or so. Last time it was the 5 year old who impaled a crochet hook in his hand.

Aintlifegrand · #69 04/04/08, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxAprilMagic

All I can say to this post is "Oh My". You don't live in the world that the rest of us live in. Give me directions to your side of the planet.

Ok.. first..I think you are not be helpful or nice...now reality is that some of us don't have crisis every week either... I had four children..and they are all grown..not one ever had any major illness..no one had surgery, no one was ever in the hospital, no one had cancer or any such thing. Doesn't mean it won't happen..but doesn't mean it will.. As long as he plans to work and pay for his medical care out of pocket as he goes so be it...I see no reason for you to be so sarcastic.

agmantoo · #70 04/04/08, 02:43 PM

I would work all the time permitted and rat hole the earnings. Once I had a good savings I would invest same in something that would produce an income for me when I was not working. Then, all the time would be mine! Works for me most of the time.

FeralFemale · #71 04/04/08, 02:48 PM

Yeah, firewood is an all the time every sparemoment kinda chore if you wanna heat your house in the winter.

Anyone see that PBS series? Frontier house? Or Pioneer House? Or something like that? These families had to survive as a homsteader would back in the 1800s. They had all summer to prepare for winter and in the end an 'expert' would judge how prepared they would be if they really had to face winter. It was a good show, but it really hit home how much work it was. Don't get me wrong, hard work is good, but then there is just ridiculousness. Without a chainsaw, you will have to chop wood every spare moment that you have, and that is on top of all the other chores you need to do to keep the place running, keep food in your bellies, etc.

I understand minimalist, but those inventions to make our lives easier happened for a reason. Life was freakin' hard. It shortened their life span. People died. Babies died. For example, no phone? What if there is some accident and you or your baby need fire or medical services at your place asap?
Why you would subject yourself and your family to that, I do not know. It is possible to live smartly, frugally, and simply without putting your family in danger.

Goatguy · #72 04/04/08, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeralFemale

Yeah, firewood is an all the time every sparemoment kinda chore if you wanna heat your house in the winter.

Anyone see that PBS series? Frontier house? Or Pioneer House? Or something like that? These families had to survive as a homsteader would back in the 1800s. They had all summer to prepare for winter and in the end an 'expert' would judge how prepared they would be if they really had to face winter. It was a good show, but it really hit home how much work it was. Don't get me wrong, hard work is good, but then there is just ridiculousness. Without a chainsaw, you will have to chop wood every spare moment that you have, and that is on top of all the other chores you need to do to keep the place running, keep food in your bellies, etc.

I understand minimalist, but those inventions to make our lives easier happened for a reason. Life was freakin' hard. It shortened their life span. People died. Babies died. For example, no phone? What if there is some accident and you or your baby need fire or medical services at your place asap?
Why you would subject yourself and your family to that, I do not know. It is possible to live smartly, frugally, and simply without putting your family in danger.

You are right, A chainsaw would certainly be a necesity, and I would definitely have one. I don't remember saying that I would fall and section the tree with an axe, I may have implied it, if I did, I was incorrect. That would just be too much work haha.

As far as the phone. Yes, all in all, i would probably have a phone. I was just thinking of what would be absolutely necesarry, and at the time that I started the list, a phone didn't make the cut. In reality, i'm sure I'd have one.

I'd probably have to have the internet too, I don't need no tv, or golf membership, or fancy motorcycle. But I think i would go into withdrawal without my internet and the vast amount of learning that I can do on this thing.

mpillow · #73 04/04/08, 02:55 PM

I enjoyed this (true) story...

http://www.innerexplorations.com/catsimple/2.htm

I couldnt do the poopy diaper washing by hand.... it would turn into birth control after the first month! maybe just week....

Goatguy · #74 04/04/08, 03:01 PM

Mpillow, That sounds like a very entertaining book. I'm going to have to see if my local barnes and Noble can get it.

TxAprilMagic · #75 04/04/08, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goatguy

FM, You make many good points, I will try to clear things up a little.

Ok first off, my ultimate dream would be as self sufficiency as possible while still living a somewhat normal and decent life. So yes, I would like to have a car (although it doesn't need to be anythign special, my 84' VW rabbit does the job right now), I would like to have some electricity as well, even though it is not required for life. So maybe a better way of saying it would be, I would like a fairly self suffiecent life that is as cheap as possible, but still within the "normal". So yes, We could get food for free by dumpster diving behind Walmart, and I can go door to door asking for old clothes, but that would be beyond the bottom limit of "normal". Does that make sense or am I just rambling too much?

In very little time I will have my RN license. In my area a begining RN/nurse will make between $45k and $55k / year. This is great for the people that want to spend thier lives doing that. The problem is that I don't. I want the degree so that I can make money and pursue the life that I want to live. I want to be like the guy on Little house on the prairie, or Jerimiah Johnson. To live on my land, raise my food, do my own thing. Its not that I don't want to work, or be lazy, its just that I'd rather be trimming goat hooves, butchering rabbits, tending a garden and collecting eggs, than being a nurse all day long. For all the homesteading people on here, I'm sure that this will make sense.

So the idea is, if I'm a nurse, working as hard as I can for say 2 months, packing in as much overtime as I possibly can, to get say $10-15k, is that enough to live on for the rest of the year? Sure, its a different way of thinking and living, but it does make sense to me. I'm not interested in big houses, fancy cars, or any other toys, I just want to be on my land, farming, raising a family, and enjoying life the way it was meant to be before the industrial revolution.

Does this make more sense, can you see where I am coming from?

How much wood can you get into that VW for your stove and or fireplace?
What do you consider normal and decent?
Even the people of Walnut Grove from "Little House on the Prairie" worked hard at bettering themselves and the community without compromising their morals or integrity.
No, I don't understand you. I am considered a full time rancher. I make a total living off my land and I don't understand you.
I am one of the most frugal and non wasteful people in my whole county and I couldn't live on 10k a year and my kid is grown and gone from home with his own life so it is just my husband and I.
There is nothing wrong with living off the land ( there should be more of us out there) but if you have never done it you are in for a great surprise and experience. IT IS ONE OF THE HARDEST JOBS YOU WILL EVER DO. My day starts at 4am everyday ( 24/7 , 365 days a year ) and ends when it is too dark to see anything then sometimes I have to get the truck and use the head lights or a flash light to see enough to finish. I give a whole new meaning to your butt is dragging. You are not being realistic and you are going to put your family in some serious dire straights if you jump into this new life style all at once without a solid plan and a sense of reality. I grew up dirt poor so doing all I do now has always been a part of my life. I am not poor anymore and have no intentions on living poor again. For those who say poor is a state of mind never spent cold nights or hunger for days on end. Yes, there is such a thing as poor but it did teach me one thing and that is how to live off the land. I don't regret my childhood for one moment so don't misundertand I was born into poor. I don't have a big house by any means but I am use to living off the land. If you aren't then you are in for a lot of hard ache and hard times that could be avoided with a little more reality thinking.
One of these days , your youth will be gone, your ability to pick up that bolder, fence post, ect. all by yourself will be gone, the aches and pains will be a constant thing and you will turn around and realize you are too old or crippled up to go out and get a job and your family is starving. Homesteading, farming, ranching, self sufficent , call it what you want is hard , back breaking work with no tangible benefits from anyone but yourself, which is not a bad thing but you have to plan a life style change with as much care as you do retirement. You may not want to live your life thinking what can happen but you better live your life prepared for it any way.

wy_white_wolf · #76 04/04/08, 03:03 PM

I had the pleasure of cleaning out some of my grandmothers stuff a few years ago. Found one of her old journals. Seems in the winter of '58 grandfather came down with the pnemonia (sp?). He spend 4 or 5 days in the hospital. When he went to check out they asked him how he intended on paying them. His answer was that he would have to sell one or two of the calves that he was fattening up. His doctor overheard the response and took one of the calves as payment and paid his hostpital bill.

Just wanted to let you know there are ways around medical bills. Health insurance didn't exist 100 years ago. Neither did most things everyone views as necessities.

mpillow · #77 04/04/08, 03:08 PM

You can read it online....scroll down to part 1(in blue) past the pics

RichieC · #78 04/04/08, 03:12 PM

I'm curious about one thing. You have a couple of times mentioned not wanting to work so you can "spend time doing what you love."

What is it that you love? Don't you think 20 hours a week hauling water and doing laundrey, and another 20 cutting firewood, might interfere with that?

Or is what you love "not working"?

PyroDon · #79 04/04/08, 03:16 PM

Not sure where some of you live .
Around here if you apply for a job and expect to get it you have to have a phone and reliable transportation (most will not accept a bike or feet as the mode )
with an infant your better have running water and electricity or SRS will be coming t take your kid thats just the way things are today in most places

Betho · #80 04/04/08, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wy_white_wolf

I had the pleasure of cleaning out some of my grandmothers stuff a few years ago. Found one of her old journals. Seems in the winter of '58 grandfather came down with the pnemonia (sp?). He spend 4 or 5 days in the hospital. When he went to check out they asked him how he intended on paying them. His answer was that he would have to sell one or two of the calves that he was fattening up. His doctor overheard the response and took one of the calves as payment and paid his hostpital bill.

Just wanted to let you know there are ways around medical bills. Health insurance didn't exist 100 years ago. Neither did most things everyone views as necessities.

I don't know how many doctors would take calves as payment for a 5-day hospital bill anymore. Health Insurance didn't exist 100 years ago, it was almost a different world. You try and go to the hospital and barter a calf for service - good luck!