Rationing...

Central planning doesn't work.

Best to discuss, educate and change the culture, hopefully leading to conservation.

Most Americans don't ever think about how wasteful they are.

I've been chewed out by family for taking the first parking spot I see. They prefer that I drive around for 5 minutes so I can get 20 yards closer and save all that 10 seconds of walking.

I don't get drive-thru windows at burger joints. Sit there idling the car for up to 20 minutes.

I don't get exercise bicycles on which you go nowhere, then people drive the quarter-mile to the corner store to get beer.

Guys at work often don't feel like making a lunch, so they drive 20 miles round trip to go get a burger in town.

The waste is all currently seen as healthy, normal behavior. The ones who conserve are somehow veiwed as nutcases. Amazing.

I am not suggesting we ration anything, just bringing up the discussion. I keep hearing that it's a sign that you don't live in a free country when that happens. If that's not just rhetoric, then we must not live in a free country.

I was hoping someone brought up water, because water is an understandable issue for most people. And out west, water has been rationed for a long time.

Interesting idea about the rolling brown outs being rationing. I would agree.

Who decides the dire consequences that demand rationing? Obviously in the past it was the government.

I prefer never to have to ration anything. But we practice it at home when times are tight.

__________________
Check us out out "The Modern Homestead", a small, helpful, friendly forum. Find us at "The Modern Homestead", on facebook too!

Good post.

__________________

I'm not real comfortable with water rationing when it comes to government coming and deciding that someones water belongs to the government without compensation. The Ohio Supreme Court ruled (for example) that you own the water under your property...just like you own the mineral rights.

We bought our place precisely because we knew that we had plenty of water....springs,creeks that originate on our property, good aquifers, etc. I would be a bit put out if my water was rationed to benefit others in a large city for example.

My other comment is that deciding to ration for yourself (your pantry example) is significantly different than someone else deciding you are going to ration.

Mike

That may be, but I am speaking historically, and historically, rationing is a fact determined by the government. And that's what this discussion is about.

So could I place you in the "totally against rationing at anytime" column?

__________________
Check us out out "The Modern Homestead", a small, helpful, friendly forum. Find us at "The Modern Homestead", on facebook too!

Government has inplemented rationing and it seems everytime there is a way around it, usually with money. As someone said WWII rationing in some ways was a feel good for the cause deal as much as it was a we need the stuff deal. There was always a black market that somehow could provide the goods for the right price.

We unfortunately are humans and cursed with human nature. We're also blessed and cursed with this concept of freedom in this country. We will keep on keepin on until a scientist can no longer provide the last drop of water or the last breathe of air to sustain mankind. We were given it all and we wanted more!

__________________
"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self confidence"
Robert Frost

being that any person can get elected to office, and make the rules about whether or not to ration, I guess, as much as I dont like it, the government can have the power to ration. I dont think they should though.

I dont think the government has rights either.

__________________
http://lownfamilymaplesyrup.com/ max@lownfamilymaplesyrup.com
Professional Tool. 1220 Woodmere Ave,Traverse City, MI. 49686. 231-941-8003. http://professionaltool.com/

I guess I'm weird. I was taught to not be greedy and self-centered, and to take other people's situation and feelings into account when making my decisions. And GET THIS: it was my career USAF officer dad who taught me a lot of this attitude. He didn't have a greedy bone in his body.

I guess it was all his years in the Boy Scouts that made him such a nasty unamerican communist..........


When everyone takes as much as they can without regard for the well-being of the group as a whole, the eventual result is called, IIRC, the tragedy of the commons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
IMHO, this approach to life also closely mimics cancer.

But is it being greedy and self centered? When many folks choose to spend their money on vacations, expensive pools, new cars, etc.... DW and I chose to invest our money in land with water. We aren't looking to suck it dry at someone elses expense. We invested so that the water on our property could be used on a sustainable basis.

So when all those folks who chose not to conserve and not to invest in water resources come knocking saying they wish to take our water.... I don't view our position as greedy. Rather, I view the folks who did nothing regarding water resources as the greedy ones. They paved over the land such that storm water runs off rather than soaking in and eventually replenishing the aquifers. etc. etc.

And yes SS, unless it is an absolute back against the wall situation I am pretty much against government rationing.

Mike

I think rationing encourages the behaviors that it wishes to reduce, such as waste and a "fairly distributed" supply to everyone. It also encourages people to think about the potentially negative needs of the unprepared many over the self-determined positive needs of the few.

Water rights sales in the west/southwest United States where farmers sell their rights to cities or forcing farmers to give up rights to water for their crops so that it can be transfered to the cities goes against my grain. If people want to eat, then let the farmers farm and stop maintaining golf courses, pools and watering lawns and shut down fountains and water parks.

There is also another negative effect of rationing, as it also encourages others to not care about the resource they do have access to. Game licenses are one way to regulate the access to wild game, but does it encourage people to care more about the habitat and nature? If I have no total right over game animals that walk on my property why would I be motivated to enhance their habitat? I would need to have a self-centered, selfish interest, that being that I want to improve my chances of killing game animals, to encourage my stewardship of my property to increase game numbers.

True, there is a fine line and balance between the tragedy of the commons and the tragedy of the anti-commons. Some things are better managed on a major, county, state or federal scale while others work better on smaller, personal, property owner scale.

I have to have a self-interest in some fashion to motivate me to so something that outwardly might look to be altruistic.

__________________
Those who refuse to respect the natural rights of the individual and uphold their oath to protect and defend the Constitution deserve the punishment they receive.

As with today, the wealthy managed to have what they needed while the average joe & jane did the sacrificing. Don't let hollywood/govt propaganda tell you any different. But you are right, today the only sacrifice is from those who have military members in their family. I tend to only sacrifice tax dollars to pay the contractors and high gas prices yet never getting an answer out of my worthless US rep as to why he won't fund veteran programs.

__________________
Beware of radical christians: http://listverse.com/2015/03/22/10-p...e-for-america/

Well, it has nothing to do with Hollywood and everything to do with history.

My grandfather and his brothers were of age to be drafted during WWII. Grandpa was born in 1910. He owned a junkyard.

The Army drafted his brothers and told him that it was more important for him to stay home and run the recycling business than to go to war.

My grandparents weren't wealthy, but the weren't poor either. They were middle class. My grandfather died before I was born, but I grew up at my grandma's house. Spent lots of time with her. She was a pack rat, couldn't throw anything away. Leftover from the depression is what my father said.

She had all kinds of stamps/ration books from that time that she had never used. (She had the best garden of anyone I have ever known, and was composting/using worms before it ever became fashionable). She told me about rationing.

During the revolutionary war there was rationing also.

I agree rationing should be reserved for emergency. I guess I want a definition of the emergency. Not many people conserve anymore. I don't believe that freedom = entitlement, but that freedom = responsibility.

__________________
Check us out out "The Modern Homestead", a small, helpful, friendly forum. Find us at "The Modern Homestead", on facebook too!

For a brief while there after hurricanes Katrina and Rita it looked like we might find ourselves in the sort of emergency where rationing of some sort might have been necessary. At least in the parts of the nation that was not able to get sufficient fuel. A few more weeks of what was happening then and I could have understood the necessity for rationing.

When there is a commodity that everyone must have (or nearly everyone) in order to carry on with every day life and it suddenly becomes in short supply then rationing might be required until either more can be had or folks have had a chance to make whatever necessary adjustments they needed to make to get by without it or less of it. After that the market should be allowed to regulate supply.

Rationing should always be a last recourse reserved for real emergencies. We are not in one at the present time.

.....Alan.

freedom = responsibility

well put. I've felt for the last 20 years that personal responsability no longer exists, and it keeps getting worse. Look at the ads on tv and radio from lawers about sueing "did you fall down and hurt yourself? Call us, we will get you money". Just wrong.

I suppose we all ration, whether we think we do or not. When its dry, we use less water. When gas is high, we drive less. Electricity is expensive, so we use less. It's what a homesteader does, live cheaply, live off of whats available, and conserve what we have. Self rationing if you will.

Now the question is, will a true homesteader be affected by a water or gas ration. I don't think so. If you are a homesteader you already know how to live off of very little. For instance, I have gotten our bills low enough that I can earn as little as $600 a month, and get by. Thats get by, pay all the bills, and have food on the table and gas my equiptment . Nothing more. But thats ok. I don't like to leave our property , and when I do, can't wait to return. So would a gas ration effect me. Nope. Water ration, nope, artesian (sp) well, and a stream running thru the property. Feul oil, natural gas, nope, don't use either.

I personally think a homesteader just wouldn't worry too much about this stuff. We should be used to living this way as it is.

Well, with all the "shortage" (perceived or real... no matter) news, I figured this would be worthy of a bump.

Seems like stores are doing a bit of rationing themselves on some items right now. Probably to help curb the panic buyers.

__________________
Check us out out "The Modern Homestead", a small, helpful, friendly forum. Find us at "The Modern Homestead", on facebook too!

Rationing may or may not be necessary. What it does is control the wacked out panic types. It gives some re-assurance that there will be a stable supply. One reason there was rationing during war is to give everyone a sense of participation. NOt happening to day becuase if we don't spend the economy goes to earth. But you notice that most people don't feel all that connected with war today. If they did there wouldn't be all this PC about fighting the thing. People would want to get it over so they can get back to having.

__________________
Thinking is hard. Feeling and believing a storyline is easy.

FREEEEEEEDDDDDDDOOOOOOMMM!!!

Prof Kingsfield. Rules!!





http://tnwoodwright.blogspot.com/

I know that there was rationing in WW2 but people also had Victory Gardens and raised a lot of food for their own families. Even in big cities people had small Victory Gardens out front of their homes. Maybe it is time for some folks to go back to that. Every little bit of self sufficiency, no matter how small, would help.

Good thoughts!
The thing that struck me of this topic is - will I be confident that the govt- if it implements rationing- is doing it for the better of all? If so, I have no problem.
I am happy to help others and work for the good of all. I will help as many people as I am physically able to help. I can see rationing for suplies in stores, etc, but not taking supplies people have already 'for the better of all'. If they were concerned about the 'better for all' part they would be telling people loud and long right now(if not years ago) - to get out of debt, grow gardens and store some extra food. If the govt were concerned for the people, they would not have sold off all our stores of wheat.

If rationing were implemented during a time of war where we are fighting for our freedoms - yes, we all have a stake in that. If we are fighting to continue to feed those that won't feed themselves - no. There has to come a 'make it or break it time.' You work and I will work with you and do all I can with you. And I will pray for compassion for those that are still in the adjustment phases.

I can't conceive of a better way to screw up our economy more than it already is than by instituting rationing. There isn't any way to make it work without giving the government more and more and more control over every kind of consumable supply.

If you think things are bad now just give the goverment still more control.

We homesteaders are supposed to be self-reliant types. Why do we have so many who seem to want the government to come and save them?

.....Alan.

Sam's Club is rationing certain types of rice - 4 bags per customer, Costco is considering doing the same.

This was all over the news yesterday - said it was because both of these stores make money off the memberships and not that much off the items sold, so now that rice has gone up so much, they are limiting how much each person can buy. Also that it is believed that small businesses (restaurants, grocers) are stockpiling because rice is due to increase more in cost.

GA. lived with water rationing last year and this morning the news on NPR was that there is growing concern that N. GA. and S. GA. are still in a drought situation even given the rainfall we have had..I look for more rationing in the future. I am on a well, I self ration the water - last year I did no outside watering other than keeping the stock tanks full. No washing cars/trucks, no watering lawns, only watered plants that needed it to keep them from dying and no wasting water period. I did ok and had plenty, but still saw golf courses using water like no tomorrow and people still watering lawns ..sigh.

Some people will never "get it" and will overuse until the resource is gone, then want to come take what others have. That is just human nature I reckon.

__________________
Be yourself - no one can tell you that you're doing it wrong!