Trespassers have sunk to a new low
 

They've actually went and ripped off two gates right off the hinges!!! The story behind it:

We were contacted about a year ago by a neighbour who has a very large (200+ acre) farm, who told us that he was having problems with people on ATV's coming through our property (we have 90 acres, much of which is woodlands ajoining the other neighbours). Seems the ATVs are coming from the beginning of the trail way out east, travel over our trails (since we are the middle) and then go onto his west end one. He is not impressed, although relieved to know that the new neighbours (us) were not the culprits.

After months of ongoing issues of having his own trails (pay per use snowmobile trails) wrecked by ATV's, he asked if he could put locks on our two gates that brack a set of train tracks in the middle of our property. I said, sure, go ahead (with us having the combo for it, of course!)

Well......seems he went out there with the pupose of following the ATV tracks once again and found that the locks had not only been cut, but the gates were torn off the hinges! These gates were not installed by us, they are very old, rusty things that were pretty banged up, so no great loss in that respect. BUT the idea that someone would go and actually wreck property that doesn't belong to them, to drive on a trail they were not invited to use......:flame:I cannot believe the nerve of some people!

So.....neighbour calls CN Railway and tells them (this being a safety issue, technically the railway must address this crossing). So now CN is involved and looking for culprits. They are sending someone out to investigate and I think the police may be getting involved as it now includes not only trespassing but destruction of property.

I'm pretty sure my other neighbours are part of this problem, as they all own ATVs and snowmobiles, but only have maybe 10 acres. I'm betting that half the town uses these trails though, too.

My take is that I would love to use the trails, too, provided that I could get all the neighbours to agree. It could be a community trail and thereby patrolled to keep it in shape and to kick off people that should not be there. However, I just know that some people will not go for that.

Angry neighbour wants them off and that's that. His trails are being destroyed and apparently it costs him plenty to get the snow trails re-groomed.

Any helpful ideas or comments?

Last gate I bought was $165.
String some smooth wire about 4' off the ground between 2 trees.
You will find the culprits soon enough.

Do that and you'll find them in court where they will take everything you own.

Boy that's a real smart thing to do there. A persons life is worth far more than $165 to me and that wire can and has in the past taken lives. I am not a non violent person in my life views but this idea assuming you are not joking just is not cool in the least.

Set out a couple of scout cameras, get pictures and send them a bill every time you see tracks.
Post a sign that says it cost $200 to use the trail, pay or sue them and take their ATV
We have atvs, but would never dream of riding on someone else's place without permission.
What's wrong with people?

You reach a point sometimes when lawbreakers make you reach your breaking point.

Hey.

I seem to remember this in a previous post.

Let the authorities handle it for now.

If authorities do nothing, fell some trees across the trail that the offenders can't go around.

RF

Anyone trespassing on my land, for whatever reason, or on my place to steal, has placed his value, imho, at zero... or even a negative number. To be rid of vermin is a good thing.

You come to me and ask to ride my place, and unfortunately for you, the answer will always be no. If you ask to borrow something, if I have it, Ok, take it, and replace it when you can. Take it, and get caught.....:bash:

If I were a national politician, I'd introduce a bill... If you buy an atv, you must have land to ride it on. If you trespass, once, your atv is confiscated. Twice, and prison for life!

One of my neighbors is having troubles with another neighbor and their atv's... They've cut locks, shot bulls, cows, goats, guard dogs, and last year burnt 25K dollars worth of hay... Put up game cameras... they stole the game cameras... it's gotten to the point where aggrieved neighbor is travelling armed... When the atv riding punks get planted, the entire county will have a party... They have dozens of arrests to their names...

ok, rant over.

btw... don't use 'wire'... use 2lb test... won't do anything but scare them... Worked for me!!! They popped my 2'test once, and stopped using that 'nice trail'.

OP.... low is when they dehinge a gate, and take it with them...

The gates aren't worth taking, I don't think. LOL They're probably from the 60's, old and rusted, but useable for "supposedly" blocking access. I haven't been out there to look myself yet, to see exactly what was done.
Yes, but then that means I can't use the trail myself. See, where the gates are, is midway in my property. The uninvited guests come off from the property to the side, then onto mine near the train tracks (where the gates are, on either side of the tracks), then continue on my property on that side, then to the angry neighbour's. So, to block access like that means I'm blocking the middle of my OWN property and the use of it.

Guess I will just let the police handle it. I really didn't want it to go this far. I don't want to be seen as the one who is stirring up the neighbourhood, but sheesh, tearing down gates on someone's property? What kind of people do that?

Here we go again.

Call the local snowmobile club and ask them to take jurisdiction over the trail in exchange for free trail passes for yourself and your neighbour. Not only will that give you the opportunity to legally ride on other people's land, but the snowmobile club will patrol and maintain the trails on your land.

Everyone wins.

Pete

Pete, I thought of that, it's like I said I would LIKE to do that, but that would only give the club access to maybe 2km extra trail lines......and then would come to an aburpt halt as it would cross into the neighbouring property on the other side. :( I doubt I could get everyone to agree on having one long trail system. The issue is that the club does snowmobile trails on the angry guy's side, which are being ruined by ATVs all year long. Other neighbour will never agree to that.

The thing is the ATVs are ALREADY crossing onto the neighbours pay-per-use trails and destroying them, so doing that with mine will not solve anything.

If you really want to stop them, check with some farmers about getting some old disk harrow blades. Bury three fourths in the ground, and with the grain of the path so to speak. No one will get hurt and you know where they are at. ATV tires are expensive, they will soon learn. Eddie

One of the problems you're facing is, you have an 'attractive nuisance'... YEPPERS!!! You have atv tracks crossing your place... I, an uneducated snaggletoothed half stoned atv rider see these tracks, and think, woohoo!!! Open Trail!!! and I cut the fence, tear down the gate, and ride on the groomed trails...:bouncy:

Get law enforcement to install some hidden high definition cameras. It's being done more and more and is very effective.

If it were my property I'd lay some loose barbed wire on the trail. Once it gets picked up and wrapped around the axle a hundred times it will be easy to ID the perp. What you do with the machine after that is better left unsaid.

The private land i hunt on is surrounded by Mark Twain National Forrest and often gets trespassed on. A few years ago during gun season there were atvs cutting across it to access other land. well in doing so they cut fences. i heard a shot and headed that direction to see the atv going through the fence back onto government so i strolled down to where he had come through the fence and repaired it then waited. 20 minutes later he comes back down to the fence and slams on the brakes to get stopped at which point i came out of the brush i had been sitting in and confronted him. I told him not to cross into the private land again only to be told he had a deer down and wanted to go get it. I told him he would have to go around to which he was very unhappy. he left but i didn't and he tried coming back later that afternoon to be caught starting to cut the fence....his deer trip got expensive as i called the sheriff and filed charges. sometimes atough stance has to be taken to get your point across. He was from out of state so he got arrested and not just ticketed.

The vigilante revenge fantasists strike again.

I know I must be nice, so I will not reference any post or poster specifically.

I will just give the OP the following advice:

If, hypothetically speaking, anyone should advise you to take steps that could result in the death or maiming of another human being, please ignore it as the stupid, pathetic, small-minded blather that it is. One of the problems this place has is an overabundance of Redneck Rambos, who are always thumping their chests about how they will visit terrible retribution on anyone who offends them. Such little "men" are particularly prone to posting on trespassing and dog-at-large threads.

Ignore them, or you will loose everything you own, and go to jail.

NO-PPERS! It don't work that way!

A friend solved this problem like so - partially block the trail with some large logs or other obstacle. You and they can get around them, but you have to slow down to do so. Setup a motion activated camera to point at that spot. Check the camera daily. He had to build a "cantena" to point the wireless all the way back to the house before it would work and the battery solution was a big jury-rig, but he did it.

The knuckleheads came to the logs, stopped, and started clearing the trail. He got their faces on camera perfectly when they saw the camera, came over, and started messing with it. After about 20 seconds they realized that it was a wireless camera and they bolted.

It took him 4 days of PITB work (build the cantena, set it up, swapping the car battery it ran off of every day, charging the other battery, make sure it was still working, etc.) before he caught them but he was able to burn the video to DVD to give to the local police. The police paid the guys a visit and had a talk to them (teenagers down the road). In the end, my buddy agreed not to press charges if that just stay off his horse trails with their 4 wheelers.

I will address you since it was my post you reponded under it is no fantasy all i did was fix the fence they had cut. nothing illegal about that. if he would have gotten hurt not my problem either as that fence had been there for 80 years until they decided to cut it. Cattle are put in that pasture except during hunting season. I am not saying to try to hurt someone but if you are fencing your land or fixing a fence, them getting hurt while trespassing is not the land owners problem if it truly is a fence as this was 4 strand barb wire. You wouldn't be calling me little if you knew me as physically or mentally i am not. And i tend to post in just a few more threads than what you mention.:soap: i'll be climbing down now :)

So if people don't like other people tearing up their land, fences, etc, they are small minded redneck Rambos?
You wouldn't be an ATV person would you?;)

Years ago, in this county, a man strung wire across a dirt road on his property. He had trouble with dirt bikers and moped riders tearing up his land. The outcome was a young boy on a moped being killed by running into the wire. The man who owned the land was bought to trial. It is so long ago I don't remember the charges. He was found guilty of causing the death.

If you take the law into your own hands the next hands you feel will be attached to a lawman placing you under arrest.

Use the justice system and don't stop making complaints against the riders.

RichC

Did not say that, he simply said don't resort to trying to harm somone on purpose. If someone were to get hurt without you trying to hurt them on your property they could still sue you, but if you were to intentionally try and harm them you WILL go to jail, and they WILL own your property.
That said I don't blame you it would be hard to stop from pounding them into the ground, but do it the lawful way and life will be much better for you in the long run.

I don't own an ATV and never have.

Be upset? By all means. I would be.

Set booby traps to kill or maim people? If you do, you are a criminal, and should go to jail.

My post was not a response to yours. There, hypothetically, may have been other posts that advocated more extreme behavior.

Of course, my post was not a response to any actual post, merely a hypothetical (must be nice).

But I stand by every word. Intentionally setting booby traps is, at the very least, depraved indifference.

And you'll go to prison for a very long time. If you don't get nailed for manslaughter, you're at least going to be charged with the crime of setting a lethal trap with the intent to harm a human being.

Years ago we had the same problems, not from ATV riders but from coon hunters who would cut fences at night to let their dogs or trucks through.

The owner of those trails is either going to need to monitor them closely or get rid of them. I don't have a lot of sympathy for him either way. It's not like he's some farmer whose cornfield is being ruined, which happens a lot of the time up here in winter as snowmobilers come tearing through. And he obviously doesn't live there or he'd HEAR the riders and be in a position to go out and do something about them.

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Dixy you'll probably have more luck with the railway police, they tend to have a lot of time on their hands for going after stuff like that. OPP or local police will drag their feet. Was it you that I suggested to get in touch with RACT last time? That's the OPP rural crime team, they tend to put more pressure on local detachments when it comes to rural trespassing.

I see folks handle things differently around the country. Some places folks just roll over and get walked on. In this part of Kentucky we get Rambo redneck and would wait till somebody started to cut our fence and tear our place up, then we'd commence to butt kickin. Yea, chest thumping also, but then that'd be the other boys chest we'd be thumping on, not ours. Calling the sherrif is done after the dusting. Charges are optional, usually a good butt kicking would be enough. Boobie traps and firearms have their time and place but not over tresspassing. Stop sticks, now that is a different story.

I'd rig up some sharp objects similar to those at parking lot exits where you can drive one way over them, but not the other, without pucturing tires.
In the dark, maybe this will bring the culprits a surprise.

Another approach might be a hidden nightvision camera. At least you'd have pictures of the guilty.

Yet another approach might be a wireless alarm so that you're made aware when they pass the entrance. This will give you time to be there when they return. The sound of a cocking shotgun should make an impression on them not to come back.

Okayyyyyy, let me rephrase my original question: what can I legally do without causing physical harm to any of the trespassers?
Ahem?

#1--I have groomed trails that are being ruined by ATVs as it becomes almost impassable when they root up the trail and it is certainly uncomfortable to ride my horses on it.

#2--I do live there, but we're talking 90+ acres. The trails are not right in my backyard, and um, it's winter! Kinda hard to hear anyone out there when your windows are shut!

#3--By the time I could "get out there and do anything" they are long gone. I don't happen to own high-end ATVs that can traverse the paths like they can. AND I don't care to be alone (particularly as a woman) and confront a group of men way out in the back forty. I would much rather just forward a call to the cops, thanks.

Oh and BTW, since when is it someone else's decision as to what I should be able to do OR NOT with my own property? I didn't realize that if I owned land and pay taxes on it, that this gives others who don't the automatic right to trespass on it? Are you saying that it's ok for others to use my trails because I don't have cornfields?

I guess it's true: ATVers just assume they have the right to go where they want, or will find some way to justify breaking the law. No wonder there are less and less trails for them to use. They are certainly not paving the way to make themselves welcome, are they?

ATV owner here. I do my best to respect the law and not trespass. Just be warned that before I ride I always arm up first. 41 magnum is my choice. It seems there are many ATV haters out there and NO, I do not own my own land.

There is a possibility the railroad maintenance crews took your old gates for some kind of right-of-way access. I am all for prosecuting those who beak the law. I someone wants to play the wild west, I'll be your huckleberry.

So let's all be more friendly and address the problem at hand. If I was you I would just watch the problem area until I catch them trespassing. Get their information and call the proper authorities. It may even be a neighbor. Peace. SRM out!

If you could drop a tree where they enter your property, that would work better than blocking the trail in the middle of your property.;)
Also posting signs where they ride might make the message a bit less subtle.:cowboy:

Yeah, I'll concede the point. I'm just biased towards farmers, not people who buy land to earn income from snowmobilers. Sometimes that bias conflicts with my libertarian view of "to each on his own property".

It's not ok for them to use your trails, but I think you're going to have to make those trails less attractive to the hoodlums in your neighborhood.

How does it work??? What goes thru the mind of a trespasser? As a non trespasser, I'd like to know... if anyone knows, please enlighten me/us/all....

Richie, I don't own an atv. I know lots of seriously disturbed people that do.

And, there's no "revenge fantasies" involved here. I have done what I recommend... Playing nice, I have found, does not work, and in fact, actually encourages bad behavior. On the other hand, running them down and forcing them to stop or be run over, does work. I made an example out of some drunk skunks 4 years ago... young punks... the word got out... and no strange atv or trespass problems since.

MontanaVet.... you're obviously not the problem. We all know that only a few rotten apples spoil the whole bunch. If you don't own land, and don't trespass, I assume you ride on public lands (since there's so much public land in MT). Now if you lived in a non public land state, you'd either have to trespass, or purchase a hunting lease to ride on. The closest 'public land' is around an hour and a half away from here. You either go there, or pay by the day to go to atv 'parks'. So many people live in town, with zero acreage, and have 'night leases'.... trespass at night, when they think owners or lease holders won't notice. These are the outlaws I talk about.

I don't trespass on an ATV. I do it on a dirt bike.

People have told me I'm inconsistent in the past, and I'm actually willing to concede that. If your dog comes on my land, I'll shoot to kill. If your pig comes on my land, I'll shoot to butcher. If you come on my land, well, you ARE a human being even if a worthless one, and as such will not get the automatic bullet treatment.

If I determine you are on my land to steal my stuff, there's a half decent chance you will leave with lead poisoning. If you are simply on my land to enjoy what I enjoy every day (birdwatching, snowshoeing, picnicking, watching trees grow....) I will likely ask you to leave and respect my privacy, but would be far less upset then if you break into my house. If you buzz across the back of my 90 acres on an ATV, well, I'm really not going to get upset about that one.

It's about give and take. Inevitably the conflict has nothing to do with property "rights" and everything to with whether or not you enjoy motorized off road sports.

A dirt bike or ATV can easily cover several thousand acres in a single day's riding. Many trails run from public onto private back onto public land. Most of these scum bag trespasser who deserve to die are just decent honest folk out for an afternoon with their buddies or kids.

Let your neighbor fight his own battles. I can't believe you've allowed yourself to be drawn into this.

Pete

It has everything to do with property rights! Whether or not a property owner enjoys motorized off road sports has absolutely nothing to do with someone having the right to trespass on private property.

Lots of the timber land around my part of the country is privately owned - and while many allow horses and hikers they do not allow motorized vehicles. It is their property and their right to decide who is and is not allowed on it.

If you intentionally trespass you are committing a criminal act - which is something that decent and honest folks don't do!

You have horses?

Does this trail have a blind curve or low spot on it?

If it does, I'd store a nice big manure pile right there!!

They'd learn quick there are more pleasant trails to ride on.

Trespassing has nothing to do with property rights? What planet are you from?

Around here we've done a pretty decent job of cracking down on trespassing ATVs, coon and coyote hunters. My land is posted and the usual spots where they rode through have been fenced. Most important was that it came to be known that if you were caught trespassing you were not only going to be prosecuted but you would also be slapped a court order which substantially enhanced the penalties if you were ever caught trespassing on the property again. It is said those that didn't get the message that way were usually sent a unambiguous message by other extra-legal means.

A trespasser is the lowest of the low. Worthless vile scum no better than a burglar. It's one thing for someone to get lost and turned around in the brush and accidentally get on someone else's property. It's quite another to blatantly trespass on another person's land. It shows a lack of decency and respect. The same type of criminal dirtbag who would trespass on your land is the same type who would break into your house and steal from you. It is the same as someone walking into your house uninvited and watching your TV, eating your food and snooping through your possessions. It is a personal violation and decent people simply don't tolerate it.

Well...
 

I have an ATV and own property. My ATV is a farm implement. I've never taken it trail riding. Sounds boring to me. I'd rather take a nice horseback ride.

I've found my fences cut before. I just fix them.

I don't trespass, but I ain't gonna pull a gun unless I feel personally threatened.

I once found out that a guy who cut my fence was a 65 year old friend of mine who was following his coon hounds one night. He's just not able to climb fences anymore. I saw him a week or so later at the local diner and asked him how the hunting was going.

He immediately told me he'd cut my fence a few nights earlier and would be over to fix it. I told it him was already fixed and no big deal.

As a result, he became a faithful "watchdog" over my property and warned others not to do what he had done, because "That Boley is a good guy."

This may not work in every situation, but I prefer a friendly approach.