USDA forest service making me nuts!

sisterpine · #21 01/28/08, 10:32 AM

Yup rode down this morning on my Caddy (nice riding snowmobile). Got down quick, missed the Moose too! Drive though McDonalds and got a giant iced tea- fresh. And am now at work slaving myself to the bone. DH just called, it is blizzarding at our place. Am gonna ask the FS guy who they get this insurance from. I think you are correct aboaut DH feeling trapped between me and the FS so I have removed my side of the trap. I love him no matter if the road is open or not and I told him so. He got up this morning and started the caddy while I was in the shower. When I got out of the shower he was already back in bed, so I went and gave him a forhead kiss while he slept. One of these days though I am going to force mother nature and that road to let me drive year round LOL. DH says we need a swisher snow blower for the atv as we run out of places to put the snow we plow....sis

MELOC · #22 01/28/08, 10:44 AM

note to self...become a forestry service employee and make friends with an insurance rep.

sisterpine · #23 01/28/08, 10:55 AM

Lol

reluctantpatriot · #24 01/31/08, 11:18 AM

Perhaps the forest service employee would understand the implications of a potential medical emergency rescue complicated because the road is drifted shut? Perhaps explain that you would be calling him into court because he obstructed your ability to keep a road clear in case of emergency.

As for plowing snow off roads, unless you are dragging the blade all the way down across the road surface it is possible to plow without affecting the road. Even with a box scraper or angled blade I still have a hard time removing all the snow and remove minimal rock and gravel. In fact, if the road surface is frozen solid the effects of plowing are virtually non-existent.

rafter · #25 01/31/08, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reluctantpatriot

Perhaps the forest service employee would understand the implications of a potential medical emergency rescue complicated because the road is drifted shut? Perhaps explain that you would be calling him into court because he obstructed your ability to keep a road clear in case of emergency.

As for plowing snow off roads, unless you are dragging the blade all the way down across the road surface it is possible to plow without affecting the road. Even with a box scraper or angled blade I still have a hard time removing all the snow and remove minimal rock and gravel. In fact, if the road surface is frozen solid the effects of plowing are virtually non-existent.

From what I've seen around here, the forest service could care less that you even go to your property. There was a group of investers that wanted to put in a big resort and access it by a forest road in the winter. They said 'nope'
There is another development of houses that are above 'the gate'. They have to snowmobile in and out. Period.

texican · #26 01/31/08, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rafter

From what I've seen around here, the forest service could care less that you even go to your property. There was a group of investers that wanted to put in a big resort and access it by a forest road in the winter. They said 'nope'
There is another development of houses that are above 'the gate'. They have to snowmobile in and out. Period.

Might you be talking about the Wolf Creek Pass Resort? I think the USFS folks were actually trying to facilitate the easement... but the locals, the county, the State govts., as well as pretty much every environmental group in the country was Against It!

Who in their right mind wants to build an entire town, at the crest of Wolf Creek Pass (which I've driven over dozens of times). WCP gets hundreds of inches of snow each year... one of the snowiest places in Colorado. A development for ?~5000 or so people, in a county with hardly any people? Boondoggle ville... the "investors" is one Texas oilman. Google it, and be amazed.

rafter · #27 01/31/08, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texican

Might you be talking about the Wolf Creek Pass Resort? I think the USFS folks were actually trying to facilitate the easement... but the locals, the county, the State govts., as well as pretty much every environmental group in the country was Against It!

Who in their right mind wants to build an entire town, at the crest of Wolf Creek Pass (which I've driven over dozens of times). WCP gets hundreds of inches of snow each year... one of the snowiest places in Colorado. A development for ?~5000 or so people, in a county with hardly any people? Boondoggle ville... the "investors" is one Texas oilman. Google it, and be amazed.

Don't have to google...I live in Pagosa... I was talking about Piano Creek. West of Wolf Creek and up behind At Last Ranch.

reluctantpatriot · #28 01/31/08, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rafter

From what I've seen around here, the forest service could care less that you even go to your property. There was a group of investers that wanted to put in a big resort and access it by a forest road in the winter. They said 'nope'
There is another development of houses that are above 'the gate'. They have to snowmobile in and out. Period.

Well, then I would care less what the forest service thought. If they don't want to keep a road clear then I would.

Jena · #29 02/01/08, 03:28 PM

The forest service is notorious for trying to keep us off OUR public lands. They mislead people all the time. I'd ask for a copy of the regulations, or at least the citation of what he's talking about. I'll bet dollars to donuts he can't come up with it. He's making it up.

Call his bluff. What's the worst thing? A ticket that you can fight in court, with a judge, who's not working for the USFS.

Jena

sisterpine · #30 02/01/08, 03:57 PM

Was re reading this and was reminded of the fact that WE trained the government to treat us just as they do....and the government will continue to treat us as imbecile children just as long as we allow them too! sis

Rockin'B · #31 02/01/08, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sisterpine

Was re reading this and was reminded of the fact that WE trained the government to treat us just as they do....and the government will continue to treat us as imbecile children just as long as we allow them too! sis

Excellent!

You could not be more correct.

adamtheha · #32 02/01/08, 05:02 PM

Do you have an easement to use that road? If you do, you can file a "takings" action under eminent domain to have the gov't compensate you for the loss of access to your property, especially if they won't let you plow it. An easement is a property right, and cannot be taken without just compensation. Access to your property is also a property right, and cannot be taken. Just don't plow the road until you have a permit, and go to court to make the gov't pay for the lack of access. Cases have been won over these sorts of things before!

just_sawing · #33 02/01/08, 05:18 PM

Just a though from a place that has not had 1" of snow this year, Pull a packing wheel. It isn't removing snow only packing it. Sawdust tires and smooth surface might work.

texican · #34 02/01/08, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rafter

From what I've seen around here, the forest service could care less that you even go to your property. There was a group of investers that wanted to put in a big resort and access it by a forest road in the winter. They said 'nope'
There is another development of houses that are above 'the gate'. They have to snowmobile in and out. Period.

I would have sympathy for someone that 'lost' their rights... If a person buys property in an area, you live with the rules that are in place when you buy the land.

If I bought land, up in the mountains, and the only access was limited, I'd live with it... or buy some flatland property...

I personally support 'the gate'... lock it down, and keep all the atvs/snowgos off of the land, during the winter... at least enforce the rules that already in place, (of course, there's almost zero enforcement of atv users, anytime during the year)

I read just the other day about a large tract of USFS land in nw CO has been totally closed... too much harassing of elk and deer trying to survive extremely large snow levels... No atvs at all...

All it takes is one percent of atv users (and I include snowmobiles) to be bad eggs, and a lot of wildlife dies needlessly.

I don't think a person has a right to do whatever they want whenever they want... I cannot drive my truck thru the capital building, thru the Smithsonian museum, or through your local church... beer chugging, chainsmoking rednecks (which I am, partly), with overpowered atvs shouldn't be able to go wherever whenever... on any public lands.

I'd love to have land up near Sisterpine... after buying the land and suffering through having to do the snowgo shuttle, I'd probably look for a better arrangement. But, having bought next to her, if I couldn't get better access, I'd have to live with it.

rafter · #35 02/04/08, 08:18 PM

That is why there are gates on most forest roads. They don't want people on them in the winter. They are closed right after the last hunting season and don't reopen them til mid May or weather permitting after that if there is a lot of snow. We all know what happens to road when they are muddy..and the forest service is not in the biz to fix them.

The roads get gravel if the forest service sees fit..and gets a grade a year if they see fit to do that.

That's the rules.

YounGrey · #36 02/04/08, 08:35 PM

What a mess, sorry to hear about that.

MullersLaneFarm · #37 02/04/08, 08:37 PM

It's the gov't, what do you expect??

65284 · #38 02/04/08, 08:51 PM

Sis, you said;

"The forest service routinely parks heavy equipment on our land so that the local hoods will not continue to damage it."

If, I were in your situation this would stop...NOW. Splain to them you can't allow it for possible liability reasons, tell them your ins won't cover it. No sense in accommodating them if they won't reciprocate.

sisterpine · #39 02/04/08, 08:56 PM

Lets see about an update...I have been snowmobiling for about a week, have almost quit whining LOL except about the wet butt I keep getting! I am still seeking a snow removal permit as well and am discussing with my two nearest neighbors the idea of going together as some type of unofficial association for this purpose.

The way I see it the government really should not be telling folks when and how they can use the public lands. It is not like the land can be lost...though its productive capacity can be changed according to some folks. I just read though 1700 pages of the "new" forest service plan for the forest I live in/near. They are going to plant gazillions of aspen trees to replace those that have been lost by natural (nature) causes and then are going to remove gazillions of lodgepole and spruce that are infringing on grazing meadows? Dont quite get how this works....and frankly I dont think our or any government should be acting in place of the real "nature". Just as I personally believe that all species have a time to prosper and a time to become extinct and that no human has or has any right to take control of that. just my two cents....so slam away if you feel like it! sis

TedH71 · #40 02/04/08, 09:03 PM

They may be removing the lodgepole pines due to the pine beetle which is eating up virtually ALL of the lodgepole pines amongst other trees. Better to have it removed than have it be a tinderbox for a fire when the trees are dead.