Letter from USDA

Organic or not, I don't trust the organic products produced by the big corporations (although I will buy them when I find them for pennies on the dollar in the pick basket or at the Dollar Tree. But hey, I'm on a tight budget!) The big guys are known for straddling the fence and even outright abusing the system when it comes to following legal guidelines.

I prefer to buy from smaller, privately owned, organic companies after I have thoroughly investigated them.

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Sure you are, just a low end one - but a bureaucrat none the less.

You really are amusing Bobg. I AM the little guy and I don't see "private industry" (by that I'm guessing you mean industrial agriculture by large corporations) forcing me out except through collusion with government bureaucrats. I own a small farm and I am perfectly able to compete, thank you very much. I sell out my production every year and my customers are happy with what I produce and sell them.

There's rules and there's rules. Some rules truly make sense. Other rules like much of what USDA does are designed to protect some companies at the expense of other companies and the public at large. I really like how those helpful government bureaucrats (you know, your coworkers) are trying to prevent milk producers that don't use hormone injections from labelling their product as such. Many purchasers of milk are interested in knowing how the milk they buy is produced. But the government bureaucrats don't want to allow the producer to label their product so as to communicate that. Uh huh, you are trying to protect the little guy (wink wink).


Do you really want to argue this position? Your basic premise appears to be that people here should support your position because they are "Getting theirs". Not "My argument is right and ethical and good for society at large".

There are no other ways to achieve the societal goal of ensuring that people have a baseline ability to get food? Let's see, Milton Friedman (You know, that famous economist that won the Nobel prize) argued for abolishment of these types of programs. He pointed out that a negative income tax would be much more efficient with the taxpayers dollar plus eliminate economic distortions and unneeded subsidies to corporations.

Do you really want to argue that an organization like USDA which tried to classify ketchup as a vegetable is providing a healthy diet through it's programs? Here's a great article (google is your friend) that shows what a wonderful job (not) USDA does in creating good nutrition for our nations school children.... http://www.motherjones.com/news/feat...ma_207_01.html

USDA doesn't define and require healthy foods..... here is it's terminology - Foods of Minimal Nutritional Value (FMNV). Doesn't that sound healthy?


You sure about that? I was just perusing the USDA FSA CM-2 handbook and there seemed to be quite a bit of requirements in there for you government bureaucrat types to deal with farmers individually. For example, if a field that is designated HEL is subdivided and sold why then the local FSA office is supposed to determine whether the HEL designation applies to each of the new parcels. You must be looking at a different dictionary than I am because that sure sounds like dealing individually.

I could list lots of other examples but why bother. You like and endorse big government because it provides your income. I oppose big government because to a large extent it takes money from my pocket and wastes it. Where you stand depends onwhere you sit.

You really don't understand the difference between a tax and an input to a product or service sold in the open marketplace? Here is a clue...... a person is FORCED to pay a tax. A customer decides whether or not they want to purchase a product or service in the marketplace. If my products are shoddy then my customers will go someplace else.

How about we do a little reality check. Why don't you describe the job you do and we'll see how many people would buy your services on the open market and for what price?


I have no problem looking in the mirror. I want to put those 22 workers ( * lots of bills that shouldn't have even been proposed) off the government teat and let em get back to doing some productive work. Actually, for the majority of those bills it isn't the "private citizen", it's large corporations and special interest groups.

I've turned down government handouts for agriculture on more than one occasion. The fellow from the County FSA office just can't understand why I would turn down "free" money. When the local county was declared a disaster area and I could have gotten "free" assistance and low cost loans....the government bureaucrats like yourself couldn't understand why I turned them down.

If people would stop relying so much on the kind auspices of government bureaucrats like yourself who are only here to help them.....why maybe, just maybe our economy and society would be in wee bit better shape then they are now.

Just a few thoughts

ladycat
those military hits are just as likely to be officers. ALL officers have gov't accounts but MOST enlisted do not. but in either case they will both surf personal interest stuff.

Typical farmer attitude, thinking your the only one's that do hard work. I've worked on a farm and yes there's long hours. But, you look at it overall and it's not that hard of life.

If you did away with all the taxes who's going to repair your roads ,etc that you don't think about. Yea, you'll be crying after a while.

Bobg

Without roads, beaurocrats wouldn't have a way to get the farmer's food on their tables. Oh, wait a minute . . . scratch that, it must be the other way around. Everyone knows that it was the farmers that wanted to give the food to all, so they must be the one's who wanted the road tax the most. It helped them prosper by providing access to buyers. Or wait . . . maybe it was the other way around.

MLF, (lol, funny initials you have there) maybe I'm just a screwball but, a dairy cow dilemma + being reported for selling raw milk + letter from the USDA = ? Could these all be related incidents?

I'd more likely think the big producers are the one's scouring the net looking for smaller competitors eating into their market. Extreme capitalists will stop at nothing to keep their hold on consumers, and I do mean 'nothing'.

You're providing a valuable service to the community by teaching others how to manage their own homesteads. Good for you. It's likely there may be more incidents in the future, especially if the economy really heads south. You keep fighting. We need you out there standing up for a more self-sufficient lifestyle. I'm glad to hear they don't have a leg to stand on with this.

A large percentage of military personnel are farm boys and girls. Probably just looking around. If the .mil or .gov wanted to check up on you for something you'd never know they were there.

Actually in the Army all personnel have official email addresses now... and computers are widely available to surf at military installations both stateside and overseas even for those who's job doesn't require a computer. My old tank company of 64 persons had 9 computers, 4 of which were more-or-less available for everyone to use and only 2 of which were used exclusively by commissioned officers. There are also computers at the post library and some bases have internet cafes now... as do the FOBs and bases in Iraq, Afghanistan and other forward deployed locations.

All military computers will show a .mil address.

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"I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

So dismissive Bobg....... those farmers with their easy lives..... benefiting from the hard working government people like yourself who are of course "public servants" sacrificing themselves on us farmers and homesteaders behalf. I'm humming the Battle Hymn of the Republic just thinking about it.

I didn't complain about how hard I do or don't work. I pointed out that my work is subject to the marketplace and isn't a tax. I then asked you to enlighten us as to waht exactly you do so there could be a discussion of whether or not folks here would buy your product or service in the marketplace if they weren't forced to buy it through taxes. You obviously don't want to answer that.

Moving on......

So if I understand you correctly, you are somehow claiming (based on your previous posts) that what you do at the USDA is related to the taxes that are used to pay for repair of roads that you claim I own (note the possessive "your roads" used by Bobg in his post). I don't really think that those super duper "over engineered" roads that you are referring to really need to be quite so big and fancy.

I think many of us taxpayers who aren't experts like yourself might think there is an awful lot of waste and mismanagement in those road construction programs. You know, kind of like using undersized plates in a bridge in MN that result in a bridge collapse..... you know, the one that was inspected many many times prior to the collapse and nobody noticed or mentioned those undersized plates. But that's just my ignorant opinion according to you.

Oops. Wrong thread for this post.

Mike,

I work for the USDA/ARS Plant Introduction and Testing, here's our webpage: http://www.ars.usda.gov/main/site_ma...ecode=53481500 . We house and maintain seeds that were collected around the world and send seed samples to those who request it, we don't house any GMO's only seed the it developed by conventional plant breeding methods. The seed is available to anyone who requests it, but the majority is sent to plant breeders looking for specific traits that would can be used to improve a crop.

I'm not going to continue to argue the point with you, we each have our own opionions and that's fine. Let's just say we agree to disagree.


Bobg

If you have a website, and you think "someone's checking up on you", get a site meter.

Just today, after posting a link to my farm pictures (from another thread), I see that I have at least 3 hits from different USDA sites, and 3 military/GOV sites - all who linked through from the post on HST. I'm not paranoid, so I don't care - but I do know who's looking at my sites.

Very interesting. Where did you get your site meter? I'd like one like you have.

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"I will not be afraid of ten thousands of people, that have set themselves against me round about." -- Psalm 3:6, KJV

Freedom Advocates: Recognize Unalienable Rights

LOL big brother is watching!

One of those hits could have been from Kung. He's working at a base, and he's been surfing from their connection. He's showing a .mil ip.

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I don't know what DocM uses, but my favorite is SlimStat.

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You know, I doubt Kung is reading my website or blog. That's just a guess...

I use both Sitemeter and Stat Counter because they provide different information. Sitemeter is simplistic but helps my site rating, stat counter gives more raw data. I don't do it because I'm worried about "big brother", I do it to fine tune the information I have available so I can reach more customers/readers. But, if I were paranoid, it would be a better tool than a tin foil hat!

http://www.statcounter.com/
http://www.sitemeter.com/?a=home

If you have a blogger.com blog, you have google analytics already, but it doesn't really tell you anything useful.

Once you've identified who's looking, can you block them?

Yes.

http://toolator.com/ban/

There's a trick to using it successfully with blogger though, you have to position the code twice, once at the very top of the source code, under the google search bar, and once at the bottom.

Of course, if you have determined stalkers, as I do, they'll just use a proxy server, or go to their friends/families homes and lurk from there. Heh.

Well, that can be a skilled technical job (assuming you work in the technical aspects), but it is also a perfect example of the problem: why should we be paying the USDA to do this? There are private organizations doing exactly these things, both not for profit and for profit. The project is redundant and probably expensive.

See, the problem is that with a private operation, if I do not like how they are doing their job, if they aren't efficient, I can stop giving them money, give it to a different organization. What do I do if I disagree with the USDA? Not send in my tax return? "Un-elect" appointed officials in an Executive bureaucracy? Vote for a different president just because they (say they) will clean house at the USDA when I probably disagree with them on eight other major issues (and have no way to enforce their promise anyway)? I have negligible control either as a "consumer," a philanthrope, a taxpayer, or a voter of what the USDA does or does not do or how they do it. That's why about 75% of these programs don't belong in the government, especially the federal.

There are some things that the government is uniquely suited to solve— like roads— but they are few compared to the number we entrust to it. If your job is valuable, you should be able to do it just as well under the aegis of a private firm. I can get samples of seeds, heirloom varieties, hybrids, new breeds, etc., from probably a dozen places without looking hard and I know of a number of seed swaps, seed banks, and heirloom preservation efforts. As for newly developed varieties, guess what? People want to sell them. That's the whole point of developing them.

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The Constitution is more than paper— Ron Paul 2008