Letter from USDA

That's right - how on earth could we have managed to develop agriculture thousands of years ago without the USDA? Or 'controlled' the 'new varieties' as generations of farmers selected for grain yield or improved livestock strains over the years? The thought of it gives me the heebie-jeebies...and it's a good thing the government pays for all of this so we don't have people out there putting their own money at risk, just to meet consumer demand or to explore new possibilities. That would be like - capitalism or something. Can't have that. Heaven forbid.

It's a wonder the human race survived before 1862 when the USDA came along.

And don't forget that rules have unintended consequences - especially the ones that are made to benefit some parts of society at the expense of others. Hitler 'followed the rules'. If people blindly follow them all sorts of bad things happen. To think otherwise is to be ignorant of history and human nature.

The USDA has a vital role to play in our society (as does the FDA, for that matter) but this thread is an example of public servants taking the authority they were granted by 'we the people' and going too far with it. It's up to 'we the people' to keep close tabs on what our servants do - or they'll wind up taking over the place. And then our founders and the generations of Americans since then will have fought and died in vain for freedom, because we let it slip away piece by piece.

Spoken like a good government bureaucrat.

One of the things I like asking our friends form government agencies is what exactly they have grown or raised this year. Turns out most of them sit at desks and don't grow or raise a thing.

As Bobg says.....gotta have rules....lots and lots of rules....otherwise what would those poor government workers do all day? They all might not even have jobs paid for by our tax dollars. They might actually have an opportunity to actually get some dirt under their fingernails and try growing or raising something themselves for the marketplace.

See for Bobg it is unthinkable that some folks might actually sell directly to the people who have the opportunity to take a look at how the farmer produces what they produce. The best protection my customers have is their relationship with me....not government rules.

BLECH!

It is about trust. About buying local. About knowing the people you are doing budiness with. Anyone who sells less than $5,000 worth of product a year almost certainly falls into that category.

Robin,
I think our website may have more "presence" on the www since we give 'lessons' in homesteading, but as far as being more "out there" in ag than you, I highly doubt it!

We only have (2) 75'x35' veggie/herb gardens, most of which is put up for our family, only the excess is sent to the small local farmer's market. (Our farmer's market booth is more about milk soaps, hand spun yarns & blacksmithed items). The same for what we raise for meat and eggs (except they don't go to the market). With 2 teenage boys and a hardworking husband in the house, food is inhaled around here!

The goal of our farm is to TEACH folks about this lifestyle so they can live it themselves.

More GOS this summer!!! How delightfully WONDERFUL for you!!! Will keep you & your health on my prayer list.

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Yes - and I prefer buying local if I can. Fortunately our local grocery, buys local certified products.

As a consumer, I would more likely either buy from someone I know personally, or for products that are advertised as organic...I want to see the certification.

Fortunately, I grow a lot of what I need. The Farmers Markets during season are SO packed with cars and people (dogs and strollers) I don't usually go - such a hassle, but good business. I know there have been issues around here with people claiming organic when products might not be.

Nobody in USDA has enough time to be looking for small Web sites marketing products UNLESS someone else reports them. So, more likely a competitor.

As for hits from the military...they are not checking on you, trust me. Those are most likely hits from military personnel just doing searches or search engines. No big deal. Put the tin foil hats away...

The Web site I work with averges 15,000 visits per month from the military alone...We also got 34 hits from Iran (Now THEY must be watching us - tin foil hat back on)

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LOL, tell us how you really feel Mike!

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OMG.

You're being facetious, aren't you?

Please tell me you are, even if you're not...

Pony!

He's right. Organic standards are a joke. And since the label is abused so much, yes, it's good that they investigate any possible fraud. It hasn't been long since the USDA cracked down on people who were selling at farmer's markets saying their produce was organic, when they weren't anywhere near organic. They were using pesticides not approved on organic crops, and chemical fertilizers, and calling their produce organic so that they could get a premium price for an inferior product.

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If you have a great product, that people want, grow/sell it locally and it is certified organic with the proper labeling - you can make big bucks. Especially with all the concerns about where our food originates.

People in urban areas are willing to pay premium prices for fresh, organically grown products like asparagus.

There is a farmer in the area that has grown asparagus for some local groceries, farmers markets and pickled. He has had such a demand for the fresh asparagus, he had to cut back on his pickled products. He is putting in 8 acres of asparagus this year so he can meet the demand now for his pickled products. Unheard of in Nebraska "corn country" -

I think it is great!

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~J. Conrad

I'm not one of the bureaucrats, I'm low on the totem pole. It's the ignorant one's like you that would cry the loudest if private industry would take over all of ag and forced the little guy out. If your going to apply rules it has to be across the board, if you have kids do you treat one differently than the other.


If you get rid of the USDA you also get rid of food stamps, WICK, and the school lunch program and how many members of the forum qualify for free school lunches. Probably the majority of them.

I'd also like to see less government, but when your dealing with the number of ag producers regardless of size you can't treat each one individually.

If you work in the private sector your still taxing someone to pay your salary in the form of the price placed on the goods you produce. For every congressional bill that is signed into law it takes 22 workers to administer and enforce them and who initiates the majority of these bills, that person is the private citizen. So when you want to blame someone for the taxes you pay, just look in the mirror.

Bobg

They got a complaint. Probably not from someone you personally p--sed off. More likely from some small producer who spent the $10-$20K and three years getting certified, and so wants to protect the term.

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"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law." -- Winston Churchill

It depends on which one pads my wallet the best.

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Robin

I'm with you on this one. This sounds most probable and least TFH.
...but then, I don't trust the USDA, either.

Mad Sheep people, read it.

Bobg
I do treat people differenly. I only have the children who need glasses wear them. I do not give the same meds to each and every person. But now you are making me rethink it maybe the diabetic and non diabetic should get the same meds cause a USDA worker has now educated me as to the best management of resourses.

Actually I do/did.

My ADD child isn't treated the same as the goal driven child who isn't treated the same as the dreamer child who isn't treated the same as our abused foster son.

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I hear that! Been there done that.

that blows chunks

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I noticed the other folks listed in IL on EatWild are certified organic and one of them is with the same Weston A Price group out of Chi-town. Could be someone who wants to protect their market (they're a good 1.5 hours closer to the Chicago market than we are though).

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I am another vote for the existence of government standards. We do a lot of our shopping at grocery stores, etc, and I'm very glad to know that the food that I purchase and eat meets Organic standards. In general my economic policy opinions fall well into the "hands-off" area, however, I do wish that the government would regulate the use of harmful chemicals more. This applies not only to food, but also to personal care products, etc.

Many people have said things along the lines of "it's about trust" in this thread. Sometimes it's not about trust, it's about protecting consumers and providing the incentives for people (whether a small producer or a big business) to "do the right thing".

~Lani

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Lani, an inspector could come to my farm, look at my paperwork and take a look at my field, and pass my certification. When he pulls out of the driveway I could dump anything I want to on my fields and still be "certified organic." It happens. Nobody's going to come back for another year. Nobody is going to test my soil or my produce. If you don't know where your food comes from can you really trust the USDA to make sure synthetic chemicals aren't being used to produce your food? You can buy certified organic green beans grown in China. We're all aware of China's big food problems. I don't trust China with the food my family eats. I see protecting consumers and trust as going hand in hand. If you can't trust how can you be sure you're protected? The USDA allows far too many bad things for me to hand out trust to them that easily. I have worked with the USDA in the past because I'm a farmer and needed two particular services. I trust my inspector and his supervisor. That's as far as my trust goes.

We do need regulations, especially for those who don't know where their food comes from. My customers have the ability to come here and walk my field, go into my greenhouses and hoop houses, watch my poultry, see what they're eating and how I grow my vegetables and fruits. They can stop in at any time unannounced. We don't need regulations that focus on putting the small farmer who works closely with her customers out of business. Our customers have first hand knowledge and a choice.

edited to add: I have never been and never will be certified organic.

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Robin

I agree!

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