Somethings gotta give ya'll

stanb999 · #81 01/05/08, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nodak3

Reality check: yes, something has to be done, and it won't be comfortable or convenient. It matters not if one believes in global warming--the world community does. It matters not if one favors this energy policy or that--it matters what the global community favors.

Our paper had an article this week explaining the political clout the global community is preparing to bring to bear on the US, China, and India in regard to greenhouse gasses. Long story short--through tariffs and trade agreements, the world is getting ready to make us comply. That hungry world is far more capable of feeding itself than in the past, and far less dependent on our manufacturing ability.

To comply, according to our paper at least, each one of us faces an 80% reduction in our carbon footprint. That translates (unless we rely totally on solar and wind or hydro) to an 80% reduction in our energy use.

That is more than our personal transportation and utilities, folks. It is also an 80% reduction in any goods we purchase--whether groceries, clothing, hard goods, whatever.

The article warned us to prepare to live basically a lower working class 1930 lifestyle. It won't be just for those who choose it. It won't be something we can avoid by making up excuses. It will just have to be done.

As the article said, it won't be about getting a Prius, but about riding a bike.

Yes, in time, hopefully technology will allow us to ramp up less polluting energy sources. But we must remember that producing the machinery to produce solar, wind, hydro, nuclear, whatever, pollutes. And each of those energy sources has its own form of environmental change and degradation.

This is gonna impact everyone. Yes, the elderly may not can chop wood--but that doesn't mean they will get unlimited cheap utilities. They may have to move in with kids, or with other elderly in cohousing, or just to smaller digs.

Yes, some folks are disabled. They may face the same choices.

I really think some excuses for overspending we hear on these and similar forums (think of things like "we deserve this perk" or "we suffer and do without so much what is wrong with having_____") are really gonna be seen as laughable.

Life is about to become about making a living, not having toys or entertainment or fun.

And that isn't necessarily all bad. Personally, I believe families and faith will grow much stronger.

Let them put tariffs, trade scansions, ect. It will push Europe into the dark ages again. As for the rest of the world. They may have some political clout...Until we just eat or consume all we produce(ethanol/bio-diesel). They will be begging us to "share". But we will demand those sanctions go before one shipment leaves. They will give in or starve.

It's true that we import food. Like fresh fruits and veggies. But we make more than enough food for ourselves. The diet may require changes.....More meat/milk/grain.....Less fruit/veggies. But we will cope.

pancho · #82 01/05/08, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedspreader

I've said it before and will say it again.

One day we are going to look back at people burning diesel fuel (fuel oil) and just shake our heads in amazement that it was used as a heat source.

Didn't people at one time burn whale fat for heat? Diesel may go the way of whale fat.

susieM · #83 01/05/08, 11:08 AM

You can also heat with soup, socks, porrige, and cocoa.

seedspreader · #84 01/05/08, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pancho

Didn't people at one time burn whale fat for heat? Diesel may go the way of whale fat.

Actually I think it was for light.

Here's an interesting article about that... we should start a new thread:

Quote:

Here's where the great "whale oil myth" comes in.

According to the myth, whale oil became expensive when whales became scarce, and this in turn brought on the development of kerosene. No government intervention was necessary, and the whale stocks, in turn, were never fully fished out. We simply shifted to alternatives. It was a simple question of supply and demand.

Too simple, actually. Although it is true that whale oil became more expensive in the 1840s and 50s, there were already many fuels on the market before whale oil and every sizeable town had a store devoted to a variety of lamps and lamp fuels.

By 1850 a consumer had a choice of:

* Camphene or "burning fluid" -- 50 cents (alcohol / turpentine / camphor oil Ð bright, sweet smelling)
* whale oil -- $1.30 to $2.50
* lard oil -- 90 cents (low quality, smelly)
* coal oil Ð 50 cents (sooty, smelly, low quality) (the original "kerosene")
* kerosene Ð 60 cents (introduced in early 1860s)

The amount of camphene on the market was far above 90 million and probably close to 200 million gallons per year. That's about the same level as kerosene in 1870. Whale oil never got above 20 million gallons, so camphene was by far the leading lamp fuel.

In 1862, a tax of $2.00 a gallon was imposed on beverage alcohol and camphene was forced off the market. Since the Pennsylvania oil fields had just opened, the whales really had nothing to do with the emergence of the kerosene industry.

From all contemporary accounts, kerosene came into an already well established liquid fuel system with full scale production, distribution and end-use technology already well in place. In other words, kerosene replaced an array of lamp fuels of various qualities and prices; it did not suddenly emerge to light up a world quickly going dark as the supply of whales ran out.

So in fact, the oil industry was born with the silver spoon of subsidy firmly locked in its teeth. And ever since then, government intervention (or lack of intervention) has been the determining force in the marketplace.

http://www.radford.edu/~wkovarik/mis....whaleoil.html

PaLady · #85 01/05/08, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonykill

I bought my land from my grandparents 20 years ago, paid it up 10 years ago

Taxes ..its NYS, Hillary country, so our taxes are crazy high. Lets just say more than $2000 a year but less than $3000. My parents have property next door, newer house, garage etc, pay twice what I do with 25 less acres than I have.

I'm self employed from home. Work out of my workshop 60 feet from the house. In this internet age, anyone can find a way to work from home.

My only source of cash is my hard work from home, woodworking.

None of us are real homesteaders, some just take it serious, others dream of large tv's and $1200 pots and pans.

My neighbors are either lifelong friends, old timers who lived here their entire life, and have known me all of mine, or most importantly family.

a warm cooked meal and a thank you isn't to cover debts, I think I must not have been clear. Its a thank you for whatever the job of the day was helping someone in need out (elderly needed firewood, cut and split wood for them as an example)

SK: I'm in my last year studying to be a nurse...I can't do that from the homestead. While I am just starting out, my desire is to have and maintain my own homestead (that term to me is pretty close to the little house on the prarie deal) and NOT have to work off it...however, inflation, taxes, etc., is a very real part of anyone's life and only each person knows what they can afford...my philosophy? Everyone is broke...just at a different level. So, until I consider myself "not so broke" nursing it is (thank God for those who care for the elderly and the sick...we do good work

) and do everything else I can to obtain my dream even if it takes me the rest of my life.

humbug · #86 01/05/08, 12:35 PM

Propane has gotten way out of reason. It is over $3.00 gallon here. Thankfully I put a woodstove in this year. I cut my wood through a
Forest Service and BLM permits. I don't know how people are making it anymore..The price of everything is skyrocketing.

I think that there are different levels of homesteading. Each individual has to find what works for them and is compatable with their lifestyle, time and energy levels. Conserving should be foremost in every homesteaders life. As mentioned insulating definately saves money no matter how you heat your home. Looking for alternative ways to heat are always a good idea. I used to live in a house in which we had made a solar heater on the surface of the south wall. The biggest problem we had with it was figuring out how to keep it from overheating int the spring summer and fall. We get lots of sunshine in Nevada where I live. We ended up taking it out because it was more of a problem keeping it from overheating out home during about 8 months of the year when it wasn't needed.

LFRJ · #87 01/05/08, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huisjen

Somebody mentioned wood heat loosing it's romance because you have to cut firewood.

I guess Desert Storm took all the romance out of oil heat for me.

Well put!

stonykill · #88 01/05/08, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedspreader

Granted, but one would assume that if someone were NOT to do the wood cutting for the day (or whatever) that the person would have to spend money in some way stay warm (the elderly person) so, call it friendly or whatever, it's still labor and labor costs someone something. (directly or indirectly).

I wonder though, someone who didn't have the chance to buy their land from their grandparents and hadn't grown up in said community... well, how would they do what you've done?

I responded longly to this and my computer ate it, so I'll summarize:

I got a mortage, and paid the going rate for my land just like anyone else would. My grandfather offered it to me 1st because I grew up here, and he was a good man

Helping others without asking for money is just being a good person. I guess good people are in short supply.

I seem to see a lot of excuses as to why any given person can't homestead...I don't have your situation...etc. If you want to do it you will find a way, plain and simple. Its actually getting boring.."i can't because...I don't ....". If you want to you will

Get Amy Dacyzyns "The Tightwad Gazette" Study it, memorize it, practice it. You won't be able to even come close to homesteading if your a spendthrift.

If you want to do it , you will. If all you can do is say I can't, then you don't want to. It's really that simple. A simple lifestyle isn't for everyone.

I'm really bored with this thread. Too many excuses.

nodak3 · #89 01/05/08, 02:31 PM

stanb999--50 years ago I would have agreed with everything you say.

Truth is, the world is not dependent on the u.s. farmer the way they were in the past. Even much of our beef is imported.

And if trade sanctions shut off foreign oil, or shut it down to 20% of what we get now, it is gonna hurt big time.

In short, at one time the world jumped to our tune. That time has passed.

And for the excuse makers--the best homesteaders I have known lived in northern NJ--in Passaic and Nutley. Amazing what a small lot, small job, and good skills can provide.

seedspreader · #90 01/05/08, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonykill

I responded longly to this and my computer ate it, so I'll summarize:

I got a mortage, and paid the going rate for my land just like anyone else would. My grandfather offered it to me 1st because I grew up here, and he was a good man

Helping others without asking for money is just being a good person. I guess good people are in short supply.

I seem to see a lot of excuses as to why any given person can't homestead...I don't have your situation...etc. If you want to do it you will find a way, plain and simple. Its actually getting boring.."i can't because...I don't ....". If you want to you will

Get Amy Dacyzyns "The Tightwad Gazette" Study it, memorize it, practice it. You won't be able to even come close to homesteading if your a spendthrift.

If you want to do it , you will. If all you can do is say I can't, then you don't want to. It's really that simple. A simple lifestyle isn't for everyone.

I'm really bored with this thread. Too many excuses.

Yeah, I've stepped deep into a thread and "bored" with them too before... it happens. You can chose to leave and not answer anymore anytime, but if your up for it, I have a few more statements and questions.

You say you got mortgage. Can you tell folks how you did that? Mortgages mean credit ratings... and credit ratings for many folks mean "steady jobs". So I have to assume you've worked off the 'stead for money? Is that true?

As someone pointed out, you made a statement that anyone can make money via the internet. Obviously you MUST realize that this isn't any more self-reliant than someone who goes and flips burgers, works as a nurse, or any other such thing. You work, you get paid. That's a good thing, so what difference does it make if someone sits in an office and does that or at home and does that?

I don't know ANYONE one this site who makes a living "homesteading". We have some FARMERS here, (very few) who make there complete living off what they raise, but they would be the first to admit they aren't self-sufficient... they have equipment, crop loans, govt. subsidies, etc. that they deal with.

It's not a matter of excuses at all... my posts have been leading along for a purpose, either you will follow that purpose or you won't...

But truth be said, you're at a different STAGE than a lot of people, but you're not better off or worse off. Homesteading like anything is about distributing wealth from one generation to the next. It DOES make a difference as to where you come from.

You were born into a community that "just helps each other", my gut reaction would be to tell you to go out in the world a bit and you will see that this isn't the normal community that most people live in.

You were born into a family where your Grandfather owned land, and had the option to offer it to you. That's great. Many folks have been born 2, 3, or many more generations never having owned land, and by the time they figure out things like homesteading... they are 50 years old and are going to make their best shot at it.

I am happy you've got it all figured out. I am sorry if the site has disappointed you because most people are behind your learning curve... but hey, that's REALITY.

If you really want to find some self-sufficient people who know how to live without electricity, regular food, etc... there is a whole bunch of them in places like North Korea, Africa, Asia...

I am sure from their perspective they would get a good chuckle at how self sufficient, you, me or anyone else on this site is.

stanb999 · #91 01/05/08, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nodak3

stanb999--50 years ago I would have agreed with everything you say.

Truth is, the world is not dependent on the u.s. farmer the way they were in the past. Even much of our beef is imported.

And if trade sanctions shut off foreign oil, or shut it down to 20% of what we get now, it is gonna hurt big time.

In short, at one time the world jumped to our tune. That time has passed.

And for the excuse makers--the best homesteaders I have known lived in northern NJ--in Passaic and Nutley. Amazing what a small lot, small job, and good skills can provide.

Now I know Passaic....That isn't even remotely country living(You can live their today if you live with the prostitutes and drug dealers.). As for the world not being dependent on the american farmer. Why are they already ka'bitzen about the use of corn for fuel? I say let them starve a while. They will come begging again. If not.....More food for me and mine.

As for the US beef..... Well they export our premium beef and feed us the crap thats imported. But your average american can't tell the difference so they get away with it. We are a net exporter of beef.

stonykill · #92 01/05/08, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedspreader

Yeah, I've stepped deep into a thread and "bored" with them too before... it happens. You can chose to leave and not answer anymore anytime, but if your up for it, I have a few more statements and questions.

You say you got mortgage. Can you tell folks how you did that? Mortgages mean credit ratings... and credit ratings for many folks mean "steady jobs". So I have to assume you've worked off the 'stead for money? Is that true?

As someone pointed out, you made a statement that anyone can make money via the internet. Obviously you MUST realize that this isn't any more self-reliant than someone who goes and flips burgers, works as a nurse, or any other such thing. You work, you get paid. That's a good thing, so what difference does it make if someone sits in an office and does that or at home and does that?

I don't know ANYONE one this site who makes a living "homesteading". We have some FARMERS here, (very few) who make there complete living off what they raise, but they would be the first to admit they aren't self-sufficient... they have equipment, crop loans, govt. subsidies, etc. that they deal with.

It's not a matter of excuses at all... my posts have been leading along for a purpose, either you will follow that purpose or you won't...

But truth be said, you're at a different STAGE than a lot of people, but you're not better off or worse off. Homesteading like anything is about distributing wealth from one generation to the next. It DOES make a difference as to where you come from.

You were born into a community that "just helps each other", my gut reaction would be to tell you to go out in the world a bit and you will see that this isn't the normal community that most people live in.

You were born into a family where your Grandfather owned land, and had the option to offer it to you. That's great. Many folks have been born 2, 3, or many more generations never having owned land, and by the time they figure out things like homesteading... they are 50 years old and are going to make their best shot at it.

I am happy you've got it all figured out. I am sorry if the site has disappointed you because most people are behind your learning curve... but hey, that's REALITY.

If you really want to find some self-sufficient people who know how to live without electricity, regular food, etc... there is a whole bunch of them in places like North Korea, Africa, Asia...

I am sure from their perspective they would get a good chuckle at how self sufficient, you, me or anyone else on this site is.

I'll try to answer these in order;

Yes I used to have a "real job". The fact is, I live a more comfortable life now. Although on paper, I'm poor. Thing is, I like how I live.

there is a huge difference between working from home, and having a 8 to 10 hour "real job" Living the "simple life" requires constant work. Fires need feeding, gardens need tending, livestock if oyu have it(I did at one time , but don't now), to name a few. If I was at a "real job" I couldn't tend to these things nearly as efficiently. I'll give just 2 example of working from home benefiting me in small but important ways. This past november, its turkey season, I'm licenced. I'm walking to my house from the shop for a cup of coffee. 3 turkeys run acrossed the yard. I go in, grab a gun, hunt them for 10 minutes tops, kill one, and hang it in a tree to deal with after work is done for the day. Thanksgiving dinner, the price , 1 16 gauge shell, 10 minutes of interupttion. The 2nd...A local tree service guy who also sells firewood. I've known him all my life. When he cuts a pine or willow tree, wood of no monetary value here, he drops it off in the yard. So this day in particular, he asks me to move my Jeep, and says he has 4 more loads if I can take them. Mind you free wood. Its July, its 85 or so and humid. I say sure. He leaves, I fire up the log splitter and split each load befroe the next arrives. By 3 in the aftrnoon, I've got at least 3 cords of wood cut and split, that I would not have been able to take if I wasn't home (the driveway has room for 1 load, the rest would have gone to landfill) . I just finished burning that pile of wood about 2 weeks ago and heated the shop and house and domestic hot water with it.All free.All because I work at home.

I've been all up and down the east coast and as far west as Michigan. I've met people of the caliber I am refering to everywhere I go. If you don't know any, that may or may not be a reflection on you.

I was looking to buy land before my grandparents had to move. I was going to buy land anyway. It's not luck, its called planning. Thats an excuse calling it lucky.

I never claimed to have it all figured out. I learn something new on this journey of life everyday.

I love living in the USA and have no interest in leaving it, so no thanks.

someone else asked about my tools. Here are my 2 latest tools. A 10 inch Dewalt table saw, and an old cast iron planer. Cost, a trade with another lifelong local that I have known my whole life. He had these, didn't need them, knew I did, and we worked out a trade. A used Unisaw goes for $800 around here, the planer is worth $200 at most. Cost, 2 good people with mutual respect for each other working out a trade. If you don't know good people like this, I am so sorry. Again, It may be a reflection on you. Maybe not, but maybe?

seedspreader · #93 01/05/08, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonykill

I'll try to answer these in order;

Yes I used to have a "real job". The fact is, I live a more comfortable life now. Although on paper, I'm poor. Thing is, I like how I live.

there is a huge difference between working from home, and having a 8 to 10 hour "real job" Living the "simple life" requires constant work. Fires need feeding, gardens need tending, livestock if oyu have it(I did at one time , but don't now), to name a few. If I was at a "real job" I couldn't tend to these things nearly as efficiently. I'll give just 2 example of working from home benefiting me in small but important ways. This past november, its turkey season, I'm licenced. I'm walking to my house from the shop for a cup of coffee. 3 turkeys run acrossed the yard. I go in, grab a gun, hunt them for 10 minutes tops, kill one, and hang it in a tree to deal with after work is done for the day. Thanksgiving dinner, the price , 1 16 gauge shell, 10 minutes of interupttion. The 2nd...A local tree service guy who also sells firewood. I've known him all my life. When he cuts a pine or willow tree, wood of no monetary value here, he drops it off in the yard. So this day in particular, he asks me to move my Jeep, and says he has 4 more loads if I can take them. Mind you free wood. Its July, its 85 or so and humid. I say sure. He leaves, I fire up the log splitter and split each load befroe the next arrives. By 3 in the aftrnoon, I've got at least 3 cords of wood cut and split, that I would not have been able to take if I wasn't home (the driveway has room for 1 load, the rest would have gone to landfill) . I just finished burning that pile of wood about 2 weeks ago and heated the shop and house and domestic hot water with it.All free.All because I work at home.

I've been all up and down the east coast and as far west as Michigan. I've met people of the caliber I am refering to everywhere I go. If you don't know any, that may or may not be a reflection on you.

I was looking to buy land before my grandparents had to move. I was going to buy land anyway. It's not luck, its called planning. Thats an excuse calling it lucky.

I never claimed to have it all figured out. I learn something new on this journey of life everyday.

I love living in the USA and have no interest in leaving it, so no thanks.

someone else asked about my tools. Here are my 2 latest tools. A 10 inch Dewalt table saw, and an old cast iron planer. Cost, a trade with another lifelong local that I have known my whole life. He had these, didn't need them, knew I did, and we worked out a trade. A used Unisaw goes for $800 around here, the planer is worth $200 at most. Cost, 2 good people with mutual respect for each other working out a trade. If you don't know good people like this, I am so sorry. Again, It may be a reflection on you. Maybe not, but maybe?

LOL, I don't entirely understand you fascination with trying to point fingers, but rock on Stony Kill...

But you consistently (I assume you must be blind to it) miss the point that there are many people on this board who weren't born into such a situation. I am not talking about "me" or mine, or who I know or don't know. I am saying you are taking your SMALL circle of influence/location/community/family support and applying it, rather broadly, to everyone else.

So to summarize... you worked a "REAL JOB" to get your land... through a mortgage on land that your grandpa sold to you... and then say you can't understand how anyone can call themselves a homesteader and work a real job.

There are tons of homesteaders on here, who never had a mortgage, bought their land with cash, in a foreign state/land, etc.

That's what I get a kick out of... I've seen THOSE people come on with the same argument...

Again as far as reflections on me or whatever... meh... I've never really been concerned with what people thought. I do chose to be a realist though.

Ask yourself if everything you had was taken away from you and you were moved to say... Arkansas, if you would be in the same boat.

What you have is what is called a BLESSING. It's good to be in the situation you are, but everyone is not in that situation. So before you blast everyone for not being where you are, just take a moment and consider that.

stonykill · #94 01/05/08, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedspreader

LOL, I don't entirely understand you fascination with trying to point fingers, but rock on Stony Kill...

But you consistently (I assume you must be blind to it) miss the point that there are many people on this board who weren't born into such a situation. I am not talking about "me" or mine, or who I know or don't know. I am saying you are taking your SMALL circle of influence/location/community/family support and applying it, rather broadly, to everyone else.

So to summarize... you worked a "REAL JOB" to get your land... through a mortgage on land that your grandpa sold to you... and then say you can't understand how anyone can call themselves a homesteader and work a real job.

There are tons of homesteaders on here, who never had a mortgage, bought their land with cash, in a foreign state/land, etc.

That's what I get a kick out of... I've seen THOSE people come on with the same argument...

Again as far as reflections on me or whatever... meh... I've never really been concerned with what people thought. I do chose to be a realist though.

Ask yourself if everything you had was taken away from you and you were moved to say... Arkansas, if you would be in the same boat.

What you have is what is called a BLESSING. It's good to be in the situation you are, but everyone is not in that situation. So before you blast everyone for not being where you are, just take a moment and consider that.

when I worked My "real job" I didn't even try to homestead. I thought about it, but knew I couldn't. I'm still working at it. Anyone who trys to live simple is always working at it.

I lived here 10 years before any serious attempt at simple living was made.

By you, I don't mean you personally, you is just the reader, whoever it may be.

If I had to start over, I'd do things differently to get to the point I'm at faster. It's all a learning curve.

There is a personal tragedy/loss that forced me into where I am, in the last 4 years, trust me, its not a blessing. I'd rather not have suffered the loss....

as far as cash, that is how I live now. If I can't afford it, without charging it, I don't get it. Those of us who live simple, know that that's how it has to be to live simple.

Read the tightwad gazette, live it , learn it, everyday, then you can live simple.

stanb999 · #95 01/05/08, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonykill

when I worked My "real job" I didn't even try to homestead. I thought about it, but knew I couldn't. I'm still working at it. Anyone who trys to live simple is always working at it.

I lived here 10 years before any serious attempt at simple living was made.

By you, I don't mean you personally, you is just the reader, whoever it may be.

If I had to start over, I'd do things differently to get to the point I'm at faster. It's all a learning curve.

There is a personal tragedy/loss that forced me into where I am, in the last 4 years, trust me, its not a blessing. I'd rather not have suffered the loss....

as far as cash, that is how I live now. If I can't afford it, without charging it, I don't get it. Those of us who live simple, know that that's how it has to be to live simple.

Read the tightwad gazette, live it , learn it, everyday, then you can live simple.

I know the tight wad gazette well. But i believe the point you are missing is many of have sacrificed more than you for less then what your "blessings" have given you.

For example my DW and me.
We gave up living in the state we where from. In doing so moved to a totally different area. We excelled and did very well. We went from living week to week; to having just a touch of comfort. We purchased our first home at less than 30 years old. With no help. We worked for 3 years to "fix it up" With all our money going to home improvements. So we could sell it at a tidy profit. When we sold it was more money than we had ever seen. What did we do. We bought a piece of good land. That happened to have an old farm house. It was soo bad the realtor even said it should be torn down. Well we took the money we had and fixed it to the point of livable........

So when you say sacrifice.....Doing without.....Living on less. You haven't even begun to live with the little this life style can impose. Yes, I have a job off 'stead. If not the bank would through us on the street. You live in the lap of luxury and don't even know.

Sorry to be so harsh.... But get off your high horse.

stonykill · #96 01/05/08, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanb999

I know the tight wad gazette well. But i believe the point you are missing is many of have sacrificed more than you for less then what your "blessings" have given you.

For example my DW and me.
We gave up living in the state we where from. In doing so moved to a totally different area. We excelled and did very well. We went from living week to week; to having just a touch of comfort. We purchased our first home at less than 30 years old. With no help. We worked for 3 years to "fix it up" With all our money going to home improvements. So we could sell it at a tidy profit. When we sold it was more money than we had ever seen. What did we do. We bought a piece of good land. That happened to have an old farm house. It was soo bad the realtor even said it should be torn down. Well we took the money we had and fixed it to the point of livable........

So when you say sacrifice.....Doing without.....Living on less. You haven't even begun to live with the little this life style can impose. Yes, I have a job off 'stead. If not the bank would through us on the street. You live in the lap of luxury and don't even know.

Sorry to be so harsh.... But get off your high horse.

good for you. So I guess I had it easy because I didn't have to move. Granted, I didn't leave my state. To me it would have been stupid to leave my homestate/ area as my family all lives here. Living a simple life without family around is even harder. That was your choice to move, mine was not too.

Your not being harsh, shortsided, narrowminded, sure, harsh no.

It would be a lap of luxury if my daughter were still here, but being 4 years ago that changed, no luxury.

Not on a high horse. Seems you are though.

**Terri** · #97 01/05/08, 08:14 PM

It really boggles my mind how people completely overlook the luck that they have had in their lives!

Most of the people here have been SO! lucky, but they think they did it all themselves.

Firstly, most of us were NOT born in a third world country. That means we got an education, health care, and oportunities that most of the world will never see.

Speaking of opportunities, very few Americans or Europeans are murdered because they work. This is not true in many countries if you are born female. And, while burning widows and blackmailing the in-laws are illegal in India, it is still a major problem. At least, I think the demonstrations in India a few years back indicate there are! Not to mention the problems if you are born untouchable.

Then there are the disasters that can wipe a person out: identity theft, natural disasters, divorce, crippling or major health problems (your own or a family member, nobody will let their child die if the sale of their property will prevent it), and so forth.

Then again, there is plain old discrimination. I might be white, but I am female and there were a LONG line of people who wanted to keep my out of agriculture for my own good! Including parents, siblings, my ag teachers, the loan officers who lied and said they did not give out loans, etc.

I can only IMAGINE the problems if I were Black as well as female!

The roadblocks to stop a person from homesteading are many and varied: most people can overcome a FEW roadblocks but some people are hit with MOST of them!

People who get this far are prudent and hard-working, without exception. They are also very, VERY lucky!

stanb999 · #98 01/05/08, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonykill

good for you. So I guess I had it easy because I didn't have to move. Granted, I didn't leave my state. To me it would have been stupid to leave my homestate/ area as my family all lives here. Living a simple life without family around is even harder. That was your choice to move, mine was not too.

Your not being harsh, shortsided, narrowminded, sure, harsh no.

It would be a lap of luxury if my daughter were still here, but being 4 years ago that changed, no luxury.

Not on a high horse. Seems you are though.

Not on a high horse. I had to leave my home state because the price of land hit the level of extreme. I only think long term. As for narrow minded..... I seriously drought it.

sidepasser · #99 01/06/08, 07:28 AM

Well Stony - this board is not about how one person can "one up" another on living simple or how someone must be a much better homesteader than the rest because they are poorer, live in a hovel, live off the grid, raise their own meat, or have survived a personal trajady so therefore must be better than the rest.

This board is about sharing how to live better with less, how to fix/repair/build something ourselves, how to tend a cow or goat, etc. There are many here that have survived losses, some of a huge nature that would do other folks in. There are some that have lost everything to flood, hurricanes, tornado, fire or loss of health.

They have overcome and are trying to get back on track. It is not up to us to judge them - to say that because I have electricity or work a full time job, that I am not "homesteady" enough. It is not up to YOU to judge whether we meet your requirements for being a homesteader - we have no requirements to meet at all. As long as there are people out there trying to learn, who want to learn, who want to live a better life - then that is what this board is about.

It is definitely not about "I am a better homesteader than you because..." This thread has drifted from it's original intent in a manner that is not very becoming to the board or it's members. I am not sure that is where we need to go, but like any conversation, occasionally a shift back to the original thought is required.

I am sorry that you lost a child - not sure if you mean through death, divorce, or how..but any loss is a great one when it happens to us personally.

Shift - We have been using our log splitter non stop the past few days..and enjoying hearing every piece of wood split..that popping, cracking sound just makes my day!! On the other hand, I seem to have pulled a muscle or something in my ribcage/back and can hardly breathe.

I even called my Doctor's office (something rare for me) but no doc was available but they did call me in four presc. of which only two were going to be useful to me..so I didn't fill the others. Have an appt. for Monday for xrays, I have been dealing with this since Christmas and it has gotten substantially worse, to the point where I can not lift anything or catch my breathe. Time to get it seen to. Unfortunately I am afraid that the bill will be to my detriment even though I have insurance..oh well, I have to get back to work around here while the weather is turning nice..the wood pile cannot wait, nor can the fencing!

stonykill · #**100** 01/06/08, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidepasser

Well Stony - this board is not about how one person can "one up" another on living simple or how someone must be a much better homesteader than the rest because they are poorer, live in a hovel, live off the grid, raise their own meat, or have survived a personal trajady so therefore must be better than the rest.

This board is about sharing how to live better with less, how to fix/repair/build something ourselves, how to tend a cow or goat, etc. There are many here that have survived losses, some of a huge nature that would do other folks in. There are some that have lost everything to flood, hurricanes, tornado, fire or loss of health.

They have overcome and are trying to get back on track. It is not up to us to judge them - to say that because I have electricity or work a full time job, that I am not "homesteady" enough. It is not up to YOU to judge whether we meet your requirements for being a homesteader - we have no requirements to meet at all. As long as there are people out there trying to learn, who want to learn, who want to live a better life - then that is what this board is about.

It is definitely not about "I am a better homesteader than you because..." This thread has drifted from it's original intent in a manner that is not very becoming to the board or it's members. I am not sure that is where we need to go, but like any conversation, occasionally a shift back to the original thought is required.

I am sorry that you lost a child - not sure if you mean through death, divorce, or how..but any loss is a great one when it happens to us personally.

Shift - We have been using our log splitter non stop the past few days..and enjoying hearing every piece of wood split..that popping, cracking sound just makes my day!! On the other hand, I seem to have pulled a muscle or something in my ribcage/back and can hardly breathe.

I even called my Doctor's office (something rare for me) but no doc was available but they did call me in four presc. of which only two were going to be useful to me..so I didn't fill the others. Have an appt. for Monday for xrays, I have been dealing with this since Christmas and it has gotten substantially worse, to the point where I can not lift anything or catch my breathe. Time to get it seen to. Unfortunately I am afraid that the bill will be to my detriment even though I have insurance..oh well, I have to get back to work around here while the weather is turning nice..the wood pile cannot wait, nor can the fencing!

1st, thank you

If you go back to my 1st post on this thread, I haven't had a heating bill since 1991. Other than my labor and a few gallons of gas and bar oil here and there.

Everyone has their own definition of homesteading. And if their way makes them happy, great. I'm not judging, its observations and opinions. Rather than try once again to put my definition into words, I'll give a few examples....Again opinions:

If you live in the snow belt, and your heating bill is more than a few hundred $ a winter, you are not self sufficient enough and not yet homesteader...in my eyes anyway.

If your weekly food bill is more than $50 for a family of 4, you are not self sufficient enough, and not Yet a homesteader

If the new truck, tractor and barn are financed, you are not yet a homesteader

Now to some, having a sign at the end of the driveway saying "_____Farm" with a new truck and tractor, both financed through the bank...well in their eys, they are homesteading. Not in mine.

Now.... if you (forgive me, not you, I tend to speak/type in the 3rd person), are working full time, to pay up those debts, while figuring out how to live at poverty levels, heat for just your labor, feed yourself for next to nothing, and make due with what you have, without spending any money, well then you are on your way to becoming a homesteader.

Not judging....observations from scanning this and other sites.

I am always working to be more self sufficient as are many here.

I come here looking for ideas. I see a lot of threads on 50 inch tv's , pools, $3000 heating bills, $25,000 tractors, $500 store bought solar ovens...etc. To me, and apparantly just to me, this isn't what homesteading is about.

Now a few here, really have the homesteading figured out. I am in awe if Texican. Thats my kind of homesteader. There are others as well, his name just popped into my head. I love his threads.

Now....I'm sure the hate mail will roll in. It seems if you (again 3rd person, I can't help myself), have a varying opinion to the mainstream, you or in this case me, is a blithering idiot. God forbid anyone should have a varying opinion.

I'm not judging anyone, just pointing out, if your heating bill is $600 a month, I don't consider you a homesteader. You may be working towards becoming one....but you are a LONG way off.
And what I think only matters to me. Although I am sure there is a silent minority here that agrees, but is smart enough to remain silent.