Somethings gotta give ya'll

It is cheap in NW AR

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

Just wanted to mention since texican mentioned you can live with out airconditioners you can live with out as much heat as you think you need also. Get a good sleeping bag rated below zero if I did not have a family I would just heat for cooking food.as is we only heat the kitchen and kids rooms plus living room. In germany while in the army I moved out to get away from all the loud wall to wall speakers blaring music all night and keg parties, I lived in abandoned buildings and nazi bomb shelters with no heat and believe me it gets cold in germany seems like their was hardly a summer there also.

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

If you set you thermostat at 45 or 50 instead of 75 and just wear a wool sweater it would help your bill a lot.

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

I agree and disagree...
I agree that we should strive to be a self sufficient as possible. But an off homestead job is a necessity, If you have children and don't want to be on welfare or accept handouts. Health care and all.
I also agree about the work around the homestead. But some have found this movement late in life and aren't quite used to doing heavy chores.
I disagree with you on the insurance tho. It's cheap and can protect not only property....But you if you are sued.

Your sudden realization that some don't in fact homestead by your definition or even close. Has little bearing as all contribute and most have a dream to live life the way you see it. But can't get out and do it. For all kinds of reasons. So we do as we do and as we can.

I will not even respond to the insurance issue, As my time is short I will let others pick up the torch LOL, I guess some were not here for those long heated threads last year? Some do not do insurance for religious reasons The amish for example What do they do for health care? You got me on that though we farm full time and raising 4 kids but I do have the kids in AR kids we get no welfare or WIC even though just make good use of the thrift store half off sales and are frugal.I did recently pay $700 cash to have my adopted daughters mouth full of cavities fixed and that was suppose to be half off since she has no insurance and was not eligible for arkids being Marshallese and we are poor by some standards. My mom agrees with you on insurance though.

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

I'm not saying we don't try to "get by" but one illness can wipe out all you have and most of what you will have in the future.

jnap31, I was here for those conversations. I was for and still am for people deciding for themselves.

As you have come to see most here are working people attempting to live a frugal and a more do it yourself lifestyle. Most are also here to share their thoughts and talents with those that are learning new things. Many are older,retired, and many are disabled. Some are professionals, some are unemployed, some live in apartments, some on hundreds af acres, some even live in countries other then the US. Many are working saving in an attempt to purchase their dream, others are working to support and pay off their dream. Some are working to build that bank acct. that eases some of the worry.

Obviously your idea of back to the land doesn't create more problems. But since as you've seen you're in the minority you might see my point.

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"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self confidence"
Robert Frost

none of us truely homestead, not in the old sence of the word anyway.

To me homesteading is living as simply as possible, and always striving to live more self reliant.

to me to live as a modern day homesteader, one should be ready to survive weeks, or longer if there is a grid failure. Have enough food in stock, or the ability to gather or kill food in such a situation. To be able to survive any posible situation with no help form the outside world other than your neighbors.

to me being a modern day homesteader is like living in the country from the late 1800's to the early 1900's, when local people all helped each other, worked as a team to get things done, and money didn't need to be exchanged. A thank you and a home cooked meal was enough

It's still that way at my place

Does a true modern day homesteader need to be off grid. I don't think so, living on grid while conserving every ounce of electricity is very cheap. Homesteading is about living cheap, with what you have, making what you have due, if need be.

Does a true modern day homesteader need to heat with wood or solar? Nope, not if they have taken every step to heat as cheaply as possible (insulation, insulation, insulation) and can heat their home for very little money with their choice of fuel.

Should a modern day homesteader strive to be more self sufficient? Absolutely. Every day. Ask yourself everyday how can I make due without spending ANY money. Then find a way to do it.

Can a modern day homesteader work away from home. I just don't see how. Living the "simple life" is constant work. A 40 to 60 hour week away from home makes that difficult. It can be done. It's a lot harder though. If you have strived to be self sufficient, then you can find a way.

I could probably go on and on, but you get the idea.

Homesteading is my passion, not my reality.

I THOUGHT that I could do it, but since I got sick I can no longer do it all. I can do SOME of it, but not all of it.

But, if what I have done can help somebody get a start, I am here.

And, if I am starting a new project, I come here for advice. Because, while I cannot do ALL of what is needed to homestead, I can do SOME of it! Eggs yes, milk no.

So I talk chickens and I read about milk. And, it is good!

a lot of people do come here for info, its why I come here. Then I see posts like this past summer on 50 inch tv's, $1200 pots and pans..etc..etc, and I shake my head, and stop coming by. Until I'm looking for new ideas, then I return. Probably like most

I'm not sure how you are sick, but part of being healthy is a healthy mind, and with that comes keeping busy. Any part of homesteading that you can do, is good for your body, mind and soul.

Sk, I bet a lot of what you said, would get support by a lot of people.

I am interested primarily in one thing perhaps you could help a lot of people out. I think most people here would love to not work off the 'stead.

Can you tell us how you got your land?
How much your taxes are (round number)?
How do you pay your taxes/grid electric bill/internet?
Are you surrounded by such a community that doesn't really need money but a thank you and a warm cooked meal is good enough to cover your debts?

What is your primary source for cash?

I am very serious here when I say that if we can learn these secrets it will help us to become real homesteaders.

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I bought my land from my grandparents 20 years ago, paid it up 10 years ago

Taxes ..its NYS, Hillary country, so our taxes are crazy high. Lets just say more than $2000 a year but less than $3000. My parents have property next door, newer house, garage etc, pay twice what I do with 25 less acres than I have.

I'm self employed from home. Work out of my workshop 60 feet from the house. In this internet age, anyone can find a way to work from home.

My only source of cash is my hard work from home, woodworking.

None of us are real homesteaders, some just take it serious, others dream of large tv's and $1200 pots and pans.

My neighbors are either lifelong friends, old timers who lived here their entire life, and have known me all of mine, or most importantly family.

a warm cooked meal and a thank you isn't to cover debts, I think I must not have been clear. Its a thank you for whatever the job of the day was helping someone in need out (elderly needed firewood, cut and split wood for them as an example)

It is, isn't it?

My doctor tried in the WORST way to get me to join a gym for the exercize!

Let's see, now. I can join a gym and pay $200 a month, or I can put in a really big garden. Join a gym or plant a garden.......

We had tomatos, and cucumbers, and bell peppers, and 1 head of broccoli, and a hardy banana plant just for fun, and green beans, and a few onions, and a row of sun flowers, and.......

MUCH! better than a gym!!!!!!!!!!!!

Granted, but one would assume that if someone were NOT to do the wood cutting for the day (or whatever) that the person would have to spend money in some way stay warm (the elderly person) so, call it friendly or whatever, it's still labor and labor costs someone something. (directly or indirectly).

I wonder though, someone who didn't have the chance to buy their land from their grandparents and hadn't grown up in said community... well, how would they do what you've done?

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You've got a very good situation. Unfortunately many of us didn't have grandparents or parents with any more than an apartment or a small house to sell us. Many of us are no longer living in the state or the country of our birth. Your business, not much different then having a job, is obviously profitable and allows you to maintain your lifestyle which is great.
You live in NY, right next to MA which now has mandatory health insurance, what if NY enacts it? I know NY has mandatory auto insurance so if you own a vehicle you've got that.

30 years ago I bought my wife $500 worth of pots and pans, over time one of the best investments. I see no problem in investing in quality tools, if you do wood working you must use quality tools.

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"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self confidence"
Robert Frost

I have a large solar collector (~250 sq ft) on my house. The sun doesn't shine in West Michigan during the winter. Well maybe 10 days in 3 months. Seriously - the thing is great when the sun is out, even when it is cold, but we just don't get enough sun to make it worthwhile. It does a reasonable job providing heat during the day in spring and fall when there are more sunny days, and we don't need it in the summer.

My primary source of heat in the winter is my new Pacific Energy woodstove which replaced a huge old smoke dragon stove a few months ago.

Backup is propane and this next tankfull is going to hurt the checkbook.

This topic has certainly brought some discussion!

Jnap, about the green wood - we've had a tough year. Late 2006 ended with a windstorm that downed at least 13 trees on our property, 3 over the neigbors pasture fence (which we were obliged to move), 2 of them over the garden, completely wiping out our fence, and 1 through the roof of the garage where we store our hay. We spent much of the summer (and a lot of $$$) fixing the damage and moving rounds and chopped wood with a wheel borrow. THe tractor dream blew off with the storm. We tried to salvage much of it, but with limited space to season (and it rains here a ton!), it's taking time to dry, in fact, we'll need an extra summer before its at its best.

In the mean time, we've had quite a time finding reliable wood suppliers. It seems that this type of business is littered with individuals that don't function well otherwise. One season we call for a cord, next season when we need to restock, their phone is disconnected. We've been through that NUMEROUS times! We EXPLICITLY tell suppliers not to attempt to deliver us green or wet wood. RJ is a certified lumber inspector! and still, we've twice had to turn away drivers who thought they could decieve us. We had an (admitted) meth-head show up with a truck load of wood completely coated with mud. They confessed that they'd just dug it up out of the ground with a dozer - but they would offer it to us at a real discounted price!) , and our most recent winner was a jobless vet home from the war who was just trying to get by. Unfortunately he had no clue what type he was selling, green vs. seasoned. He was a nice guy though and was really trying, so we're hoping to cut a deal with him this summer in salvaging the remainder of the downed trees. (It's mostly fir and alder, so not much good for lumber). Maybe HIS phone will still work come May/June. We'll see. This has been a real challenge for us. Both of us are a long distance from spring chickens.

I don't know why we can't seem to find a reliable supplier, but there it is.

The everpresent dampness here doesn't help...every winter it seems half of our living room becomes a wood storage area with three or four days/nights advance supply getting dried up a bit. Next winter, we should be much better off.

LF

Somebody mentioned wood heat loosing it's romance because you have to cut firewood.

I guess Desert Storm took all the romance out of oil heat for me.

I've said it before and will say it again.

One day we are going to look back at people burning diesel fuel (fuel oil) and just shake our heads in amazement that it was used as a heat source.

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Reality check: yes, something has to be done, and it won't be comfortable or convenient. It matters not if one believes in global warming--the world community does. It matters not if one favors this energy policy or that--it matters what the global community favors.

Our paper had an article this week explaining the political clout the global community is preparing to bring to bear on the US, China, and India in regard to greenhouse gasses. Long story short--through tariffs and trade agreements, the world is getting ready to make us comply. That hungry world is far more capable of feeding itself than in the past, and far less dependent on our manufacturing ability.

To comply, according to our paper at least, each one of us faces an 80% reduction in our carbon footprint. That translates (unless we rely totally on solar and wind or hydro) to an 80% reduction in our energy use.

That is more than our personal transportation and utilities, folks. It is also an 80% reduction in any goods we purchase--whether groceries, clothing, hard goods, whatever.

The article warned us to prepare to live basically a lower working class 1930 lifestyle. It won't be just for those who choose it. It won't be something we can avoid by making up excuses. It will just have to be done.

As the article said, it won't be about getting a Prius, but about riding a bike.

Yes, in time, hopefully technology will allow us to ramp up less polluting energy sources. But we must remember that producing the machinery to produce solar, wind, hydro, nuclear, whatever, pollutes. And each of those energy sources has its own form of environmental change and degradation.

This is gonna impact everyone. Yes, the elderly may not can chop wood--but that doesn't mean they will get unlimited cheap utilities. They may have to move in with kids, or with other elderly in cohousing, or just to smaller digs.

Yes, some folks are disabled. They may face the same choices.

I really think some excuses for overspending we hear on these and similar forums (think of things like "we deserve this perk" or "we suffer and do without so much what is wrong with having_____") are really gonna be seen as laughable.

Life is about to become about making a living, not having toys or entertainment or fun.

And that isn't necessarily all bad. Personally, I believe families and faith will grow much stronger.