Snowmobile Map shows trail across my land....

In our state it's a state funded criminal organization.

Dept of Natural Resources. I believe yours is DOC or DEC.

One of our local clubs took it upon theirself and cut (without permission) limbs and trees along a right-of-way. They threw the cuttings onto private property and then refused to pick them up.

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"Do you believe in the devil? You know, a supreme evil being dedicated to the temptation, corruption, and destruction of man?" Hobbs
"I'm not sure that man needs the help." Calvin

Hey, I UNDERSTAND this!! I caught a guy with a chainsaw going across my property for the ATV club!! He got away from me so fast I couldn't talk in person. I figured out who and called. He would not talk to me but his son did. This makes me mad just reading it!! (There's lots to this but you get the idea.)
Here in NY the liability is ridiculous!!! I can have my property posted and if some jerk comes on and gets hurt I may/may not be liable because I might have had a hazard on my property. This rules out anything placed intentionally for pete's sake, that's a neon sign for "sue me". If the property isn't posted, that can open me up for real legal issues. It doesn't matter that the trepassers pulled the signs. Had many a conversation with DEC and State Police about this. If I have warned someone (certified letter, document conversation, call on cell so you have some reord and keep it, etc.) I am in better shape but no gaurantee. That's NY for ya. After many years here and NOT being afraid of trepassers I think the word has finally gotten out. May be part of the reason DS became a cop....
I would have a talk with some of the local cops. They may be real familiar with some of the people involved and more than happy to go have a chat with them. Show them the map. I have had good luck with the Sheriff and the NYS Police through the years. They get to know the locals and the crap that goes on and know if you are a trouble maker or not.
The disclaimer on the map may very well just be words and not offer you any protection at all. The fact you have made previous contact gives you some rights. A few pictures and a bill presented to the club with past correspondence might help. Again, the legal advice from local law might help avoid a lawyer fee. I get pretty darn riled over my property and I still don't think I would walk into a room with the guys I know that are in the particular club I dealt with, they all drink! I DID deal with the head honcho (tried to) and will do so again if need be. I also am not above and beyond making a home visit.

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You can't be sure that your local cops don't have members of the club. One property owner in northern MN caught some ATV'ers trespassing on his property. When he confronted them one turned out to be a sheriffs deputy!

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"Do you believe in the devil? You know, a supreme evil being dedicated to the temptation, corruption, and destruction of man?" Hobbs
"I'm not sure that man needs the help." Calvin

I can appreciate your being wound up about this issue, but your comparison falls flat on almost every front.

A couple points are as follows:

1. Snowmobiling on land does not wear it out in any way, shape or form. I would hazard a guess that almost all the damages you experienced were a direct result of you spending money trying to keep the riders OUT.

2. Snowmobiling on land does not use it up (as gas would be used up in your car.)

3. Snowmobiling on land does not prevent you from using the same land (also unlike your car.)

I suspect you recently moved to this area, and are unwilling to bend your rigid and city minded ideas of property use to the neighborhood you just moved into. My guess is that these people have been snowmobiling there for decades. Snowmobiles are a fact of country life. Learn to live with it. You have already recognized that you can do NOTHING to prevent this. You are creating this anxiety for yourself. If you really think you are stressing out the snowmobilers, I assure you that you are not. You are only stressing out yourself.

Pete

It's THEIR property and if they don't want snowmobilers on it, they shouldn't have to put up with them. Geez.

I had guineas; they kept going over to the neighbor's and my neighbor complained; I got rid of the guineas. They were trespassing on HIS property and although I thought the guy was being rather anal about it, it was HIS property.

minikin: Do you have access to any really large boulders and maybe know someone with a tractor with a bucket that could block the trail heads with the boulders? NOT to booby trap the trails and cause possible harm to anyone, but to block access completely?

Otherwise, if all else fails, I would agree with paying the cost of having an attorney write a letter. It's probably cheaper than continuing to replace/repair fencing, etc.

I, too, would be concerned about the liability of someone getting hurt on your property. There are idiot lawsuits in the news every day.

There's a guy down the road from me that has a great big sign on his fence that reads: "IS THERE LIFE AFTER DEATH? TRESPASS AND FIND OUT!"

Janis

Hopefully you didn't have any of your sheep in that area that they tore the fence down.

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Claycreekfarm.info

"I suspect you recently moved to this area, and are unwilling to bend your rigid and city minded ideas of property use to the neighborhood you just moved into. My guess is that these people have been snowmobiling there for decades. Snowmobiles are a fact of country life. Learn to live with it."

Wake up and smell the gas fumes! The world changes as does your small part of it.
Now you have the good things like the internet and you need to deal with the bad things like new landowners who like to enjoy their own property with out the roaring of snowmobiles waking them at all hours of the day and night.

Spoken like a trespassing snowmobiler.

Maybe they want to walk out in their quiet woods and look at squirrel tracks in the unbroken snow. Maybe they want to be able to drop trou and relive themselves without spectators. Maybe they want their land to be their land. I don't care if somebody came from the city or the country, if they bought the land, it is theirs to use and they can keep people out. Maybe things are different in your neck of the world.

I've seen this same attitude in many motorized recreationists. It's as if in their mind the problem only exists because the property owner complains about the trespass, tree damage, driveway damage, etc and that if only the property owner wouldn't complain there would be no problem. One ATV rider stood up a public meeting on ATV damage and complained about the Keep Off the Grass signs.

There seems to be an inability to empathize with other people's viewpoints.

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"Do you believe in the devil? You know, a supreme evil being dedicated to the temptation, corruption, and destruction of man?" Hobbs
"I'm not sure that man needs the help." Calvin

Boy you couldn't be more wrong about the nicest lady, but I'll let minnikin set you straight if she so chooses.

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Our website promoting the use of Missouri Herbs. www.MissouriHerbs.com

Some very interesting thoughts people have.!! i live in Canada and I think a lot of people think we are all laid back and easy going, smile at everyone, say thank you too much, and all say "A" after every sentence. Well most of you are probably correct, but Private Property is just that, PRIVATE PROPERTY.
I can relate to your problem Minnikin. I would go to a club meeting or send a letter and let them know you have had it. Unfortunately, you might have to put up a high section of fence with a few more signs. If they still break them down I would take things to a higher level, use your own good judgement. Good Luck

Wrong. It's private property, just like your car.
I paid for it, I maintain it, and I decide who can or can't use it.
Are you an anarchist? You don't believe in private property?

You would be wrong again.

Hmm, still wrong...
My livestock and snowmobiles can't use the land at the same time.
I can't enjoy a nice snowshoe walk on a fresh undisturbed snowfall.
With idiots flying by at 55 mph, children and dogs are in danger of being hit in my own fields and woods.
I can't come out of the sauna and jump in the snow without worrying about who might drive by...
Among any other millions of things.
You either don't have any land, or you don't know how to enjoy it.

I have never lived in a city. Most of these snowmobiler's are not country people. They live in town or suburban homes and have no land of their own.
Country people know better than to rut up access roads, drive on the neighbors crops, or break down their fences and let the stock out.

There is no legal entitlement attached to how long you've been doing something.
I, however, have owned this land for longer than they have owned it.

You misunderstood. The map steers fools to a dead end which happens to be my property and fence line.
Without the map, they wouldn't be here and they wouldn't be tempted.

Your ideas are rather out of touch with reality and the law.

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Hut on the Hill Farm
http://www.hutonthehill.org

Good luck keeping them out - it's been our experience that nothing will keep them out! When we lived in PA they would ride up our driveway and cross our creek just off the front porch - one night a couple of them got stuck in the creek and reared on their machines until my husband couldn't take it anymore and helped them out. Nothing said kept them out. It was our experience that the ones using our property were city folk up for the weekend from Philly or NYC. They considered all the country their property. There weren't any orange signs on any part of our property delegating it open to snowmobilers - they were all just inconsiderate of "country folk". Hope you find a way to keep them out!

You could join them at one of there meetings and let them know that that trail is closed, and any trespassers will be prosecuted, to the fullest extent of the law, and make the suggestion that they update the map and the land owners permission before republishing, and if you see maps to give away take the stack if there marked free. Who knows you may even invite the local sheriff or officer along with you to explain the problem to them.

If you booby trap the area you will be liable even if they trespass, unless the danger is obvious, (not advisable).


I would only put signs and a fence or if you want a old car or some thing, but if you plant some thing that would be hidden and hazardous that is an entirely different thing, you will be held responsible,

Do you know any members of this club well enough to attend one or two of their meetings? If so, could you simply explain what's going on and how your fences and young trees are being destroyed by this problem.

From what I understand, most snowmobilers don't appreciate the bad reputation a few irresponsible ones give all of them.

Your preventing them from using the land is a power trip, nothing more and nothing less. That was exactly my point, and you proved it for me. It wouldn't matter if it was humans on snowshoes with feather bottoms. You just don't want them there.

Nothing wrong with that, just admit it. Don't rant and rave about damages and liabilities and the rest of the nonsense, just admit "I don't want them there."

BTW you are kinda changing your story. This usually happens in "I have trespasser" rants. Without going back and re-reading all the nonsense, it seems to me the story has changed from the map showing the trail "leading across" your property to "ending at" your property. That's a BIG difference.

And FYI I do own a piece of paradise, I just don't get hyperactive when someone drives an ATV or a snowmobile across a corner of my land.

Pete

And you know this because???? You haven't identified them, haven't stopped them and haven't even talked to them, and you KNOW where they live????? As far as I know all you've ever seen is their TRACKS!!! Sounds like more delusional ranting to me.

Pete

What is sounded like to me was that the map showed a trail crossing the property, but when people got to the property line, they are shown no trespassing signs. Hence it is a dead end. That was my take on it.

And I'm not sure if you're being offensive on purpose or accidentally, but you might want to tone it down just a little bit. Since you have taken it upon yourself to represent snowmobilers to someone who is having an issue with some, it is probably a better idea to "be nice" than to be rude. I may not ride a snowmobile, but I would think those who do would agree with me.

Kayleigh

Snowmobiles do damage private property. They destroy tree seedlings. They drive the frost down deep and kill alfalfa. They freeze septic systems. They tear down fences.

Tonight on my way home more than 1/2 of the sleds that I saw were illegally riding in the wrong ditch blinding oncoming traffic.

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"Do you believe in the devil? You know, a supreme evil being dedicated to the temptation, corruption, and destruction of man?" Hobbs
"I'm not sure that man needs the help." Calvin

Got any maps?

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