5 year old kills bear

Myhomesteadname

just because a person hunts for a trophy doesn't mean the meat doesn't get used. Also trophy/sport hunters were the driving force in recovering the the waterfowl & big game populations after UNREGULATED market hunting devastated them. it is also the source for over 95% of the funding for wildlife management agencies & charities. and they are the source of about 99% of the volunteer man hours put into wildlife recovery.

hillsidedigger
those numbers are old & incorrect (the alaskan population is pretty static but the rest are growing) mostly because they are estimates. i KNOW for a fact NC had a population estimate of 8,000 8 years ago when i first got stationed here. the current population estimate is 13,000 in spite of the harvest increasing every year since record started being kept.
and wild bears not only get that big but considerably bigger. a bears size depends on genetics & environment. in northern & especially western states the quality of forage & winter hibernation slow a bears growth so bears over 400# are older animals. in southern states where winters are milder they do not hibernate and rarely bed down for more than a solid week. because they can feed year round and never stop growing southern bears get bigger faster and top out larger. in fact the largest black bear ever killed was 880# (on certified scales) in NC (which consistantly produces more bear over 500# than any other state in the lower 48, PA is second). in most southern states baiting bears is illegal (so is feeding them im most than prohibit baiting) so they get that way from mostly wildforage (to include preying on other animals) and raiding crops. because of the bear populations being in a recovery phase in so many states & because of the illegal trade in bear parts for the asian medicine market, checking procedures in most southern & eastern states are EXTREMELY stringent. in all cases a tooth is taken. this serves two purposes it provides valuable population health information and is indicative of food sources since bear teeth are more easily damaged by rotting agents like sugar fed plaque. a rotted tooth on a younger animal is usually followed by a stomach content analysis in states that don't routinely do so. this is one of the primary sources for illegal baiting prosecutions.
you should take up bear hunting. at least then you might actually make the effort to learn something about them instead of wallowing in disneyesque ignorance.

Years ago wildlife was struggling. The fees paid by hunters and fishermen did not cover the bill when it came to helping the numbers of wildlife increase. At that time the govt. combined the fees with farm subsidies. The addition of the farm subsidies had more to do with the increasing numbers of wildlife. All those acres of farm land layed aside collecting money for not being cropland allowed wildlife a place to breed. Especially waterfowl. If the wildlife would have had to depend on the hunters and fishermen there would be very little wildlife to hunt.

HD.. are you even SERIOUS!? come ON... legal shoot. You don't like it, change the law. Kid made an awesome shot, nothing wrong with it... and a great memory.

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Bad thing is stupid unknowing people have changed Laws concerning Bears then they start having problems with them.

I remember when Bears were considerd Varmits with no regulations.Then they were changed to a Game animal.

I still don't get the problem.Bears are in good numbers,the kid made a Legal kill,there was nothing said about him not using the meat.Wouldn't bother me if he didn't,I've killed many predators that I didn't eat.

big rockpile

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And so the flaming begins....lol. That honestly wasn't my intent. I was just pointing out "bambi's" point-of-view, but since we've decided to start chastising me....I'll rebut.

As I said (again), if you have a useful purpose for the animal, I really DON"T have a problem with it. If all you wanna do is point at your wall and brag about the stuff you kill, well.....that saddens me. Everything deserves to live and fulfill it's role on this planet without "Rambo" mucking it up.

You're picking and choosing your arguments there Chuckles. Wildlife had to start being regulated because people were TROPHY HUNTING, killing "nuisance" animals and killing for PROFIT. THIS IS THE PART I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH. The profiteers, and the trophy and sport hunters are the mindset that started that whole catastrophe.

Yes a lot of hunters contribute to the welfare of natural wildlife and habitat (I'm one of them, and my 5 year old girl knows how to shoot, FYI) and most of the hunters I know hunt to put meat on their table....the "trophy" is just a bonus, not the sole purpose of the hunt.

I also notice that wildlife tends to do pretty well on its own without us "managing it"....its when we start trying to profit from it or "make it better" that stupid crap happens. There are several examples of this....kudzu and africanized bees being the first 2 that pop into my head....there are countless others. It'd be nice if we could all live in harmony with our surroundings instead of trying to rape them.

Flame on...I'll just have to agree to disagree with you.

I know quite a bit about them, thank you very much....and I didn't need to kill them to do it. I'm sure I'm outside every bit as much as you are. I hardly think having a point of view different than your own makes me ignorant.....even if I do happen to like Disney.

I will concede that this one incident probably isn't that big a'deal, but I just think more people ought to stop and really think about what values you are instilling in your children....and if its moral.

Have a pleasant day.

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If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
~ James Madison ~

Usually in game animals those that make a nice tropy do not make good eating. Those that make good eating usually are useless for trophys.

Is there a difference between hunting and simply shooting something?
Seems to me deer hunting is hiding in a tent until a deer walks in front of you, then you shoot it. Duck hunting is hiding in a floating tent until ducks fly over it, then you shoot them. Now it looks like bear hunting is hiding in a tent until a bear walks in front you then you shoot it.

I always imagined there was some skill to hunting. Evidently is as easy as shooting something and a five year old could do it.

If I ever take pleasure in the killing of an animal, even if I kill it for meat, may I burn in hell for an eternity.

I found it it kinda trippy the way they were stroking and petting the dead things head at the the end of the video.

myhomesteadname
until sport/trophy hunters lobbied for the end of market hunting, seasons & bag limits were extremely few & far between ANYWHERE in the USA. game laws only began to be enacted after the fed banned market hunting. the unregulated individual market hunters killed dozens of deer & other big game or hundreds of waterfowl everyday, year round to sell to butchers & markets. the role of EVERY living thing is to feed another living thing somewhere along the way even game that gets "wasted" (like wounded deer in states that don't allow blood tracking dogs) ends up feeding a whole multitude of mammals, birds, insects & then plants.
reread my post, the last thing you quoted was for hillsidedigger who constantly attacks hunting by regurgitating proven lies &/or making ignorant statements like the one about wild bears not getting to 400 # plus. while i haven't flamed you at all, i would like to point out you continue to lump the problem solvers (sport/trophy hunters) w/ the problem causers (market hunters). if it offends you to be told you are wrong, then you're really going to be upset when i point out kudzu was brought into the USA as a decorative plant for lanscaping & africanized bees were developed by academics looking to increase domesticated honey production. IOW neither are the result of intentional release in order to manage or regulate wildlife in any way shape or form.
Pancho
the CRP isn't desigend to protect wetlands, that is mandated to the landowners by federal law. in matter of fact the overwhelming majority of the wetlands that are MOST important to maintaining waterfowl populations are protected by the national wildlife refuge system. the next largest protected tracts of wetlands belong to conservation organizations like the audobon society (which has recognized the value of sport hunting in managing populations to prevent the natural boom/bust cycles) or groups like DU whose sole purpose is to ensure the existence of huntable populations of waterfowl & other game. once again consumptive use fees (hunting & fishing licenses) generate about $100 (average) for every $1 in non consumptive use fees (most states don't even have fees for hikers & low impact campers and such). Also these funds raised by the states are matched by Pittman-Roberts funds generated by taxes on guns, ammo & other hunting equipment. not only do these funds pay salaries for game wardens & biologists but they are also the primary (often the only) source of funding for wildlife management agencies to buy or lease land for WMAs. thats not counting the charitable funds raised by groups like DU or RMEF that are used to buy, build & restore habitat. in contrast the majority of funds raised by antihunting bunny/tree hugger groups goes towards lobbying, advertising & other political activities (on average 90% or more). so yes in most cases guys packing a tent into the back country for the sole purpose of camping & observing wildlife have hunters & fishermen to thank. as do the wildlife since sport hunters & sport fishermen are generally the strongest force in the development of regulations that prevent market driven actions from collapsing or destroying wildlife populations. it was sportsmen that generated the political will to regulate commercial fishing that allowed the recovery of redfish, striper & other species the commercial fishermen had overfished & nearly destroyed. and it was sportsmen that generated the political will to protect habitat, establish seasons & limits and ban the market hunting that extincted the passenger pigeon and devestated the waterfowl & big game populations. the big game & waterfowl populations were well on the road to full recovery before the CRP & other farm subsidies were started. all because of guys looking to catch or shoot "the big one."

Mr Burns
there are a great many ways of catching &/or killing wildlife andjust about all of them require an individual develop a fair understanding of the desired animal in order to be effective. any idiot can sit in tree or ona ridge w/ a gun but it takes knowledge to be able to pick the tree or ridge where half a dozen or more deer are going to walk within range in daylight.
FWIW i don't care to hunt this way either, but i also wouldn't want to prohibit it to some one that does.

pops2 -

You dwell on the peripheral and do not get to the heart of matters, do you?

BTW, I didn't say black bears do not reach 400+ pounds, I said few of them reach that weight.

Believe it or not I was an avid hunter, read every Outdoor Life and Sports Afield I could get my hands on at one time and imagine I know as much about and do as much concerning wildlife management and conservation as you do.

My gripe with the 5 year old doing so much killing is that there's not and won't be enough wildlife to go around. Selfishness and unquestioned dominion should not be cultivated in one so young.

If and by the time this 5 year old reaches the age of 50, the United States is predicted to be a country of 450 million people and wildlife will be practically no longer existent.

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Why not?? One problem is now days getting kids away from TV's and Computers and out into the outdoors.Young hunter numbers are dropping every year,far as I'm concerned they should be in the woods with DM the weekend after coming from the Hospital.

If my kids are hunting I'm not hunting my kids.

big rockpile

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If I need a Shelter
If I need a Friend
I go to the Rock!

According to the latest numbers hunters only pay in 34.3% of the funds to the Dept of Wildlife Funds.

The general revenue funds provides 31.1% of the money.

All other money comes from different areas such as lotterys, cigarette tax, personalized license plates, mitigated revenue from losses of fish and wildlife, and other federal and local funds.

Funds from the sales tax on guns and ammo have purchased about 10 million acres of land for wildlife use. About 600 million acres have been funded by the general tax dollars.

Market hunting does indeed sicken me, but so do trophy hunters. I just can't understand the justification for killing something for the sole purpose of having a trophy...that's my point.

If you use the bear grease for cooking....fine. If you use the skin/fur to make a rug....ok. If you wanna eat the meat....fantastic!
But, if you wanna kill something that was minding its own business and its only use to you is stroke your ego, impress your friends and give you bragging rights....I think you ought to be tarred and feathered.

I believe your words were ignorant and "disneyesque."

I don't mind being told that I'm wrong...especially if I am, but in this case I am not. Having an opinion doesn't make me wrong.

About the kudzu and bees....I was referring to my comment about people trying to make things "better"...when nature was doing just fine on its own.

The "academics" were trying to "better" the honey production and make the local bee more disease tolerant....it ended up backfiring and they almost completely wiped out the local bees they were trying to help, not to mention spreading wildly out-of-control and into other areas that it was never meant to be introduced to.

Kudzu was brought in as decoration and to stop soil erosion....so we could make our environment...wait for it..."better"...you see where I'm going with this?

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Well there is no way you will ever understand and I really don't care.Shot this old Ram that had no more use on this earth,paid a bunch for the chance to shoot it.Spent two days hunting it enjoying the fellowship with my friends.He was with another,I liked his color,with the snowy background,I found the hunt very exciting.The meat was not fit to eat but my Dogs did enjoy it.

Yes I've taken my part in Market Hunting when Fur prices were high,that is the way I paid for my first Farm.

Yes I enjoy hunting,I enjoy everything about it even the kill.If I choose to have an animal honored by having it Mounted or its Horns hanging in my home so be it,it will bring back the memories of that day every time I look at it.



big rockpile

__________________
I love being married.Its so great to find that one person you want to annoy for the rest of your life.



If I need a Shelter
If I need a Friend
I go to the Rock!

Got this directly from the MDC's financial budget pdf for the 07-08 fiscal year...


7b. Provide an efficiency measure.
Data from the 2001 National Survey of Fishing, Hunting and Wildlife-Associated Recreation show that outdoors enthusiasts spent about 886 million dollars on goods and services related to hunting and wildlife viewing in Missouri, while total economic business for the same types of activities was estimated at 1.8 billion dollars. Resources supporting these activities are managed in the Wildlife program with a budget of approximately 13.8 million dollars (FY06).

886 MILLION....and that was in 01
^^^page 26 section 7b


Deer hunting is an $800 million economic boon to Missouri and the deer hunting public views deer hunting as a valuable family tradition.

same page, section 7d


Annually, fish and wildlife recreation generates $79 million in state sales taxes and forest products add another $54 million for a total of $133 million in state sales tax revenue.
page 50 section 7b...this is the sales tax you and i pay on outdoors related goods...
133 million dollars





heres the page link...plenty of good info here. i believe we pay for more than our share, not to mention that the money that the mdc generates is matched by federal grants...where do you think that money comes from...oh yeah, the taxes we pay to our government.


http://www.oa.mo.gov/bp/budreqs2008/CNS.pdf

big rockpile

__________________
I love being married.Its so great to find that one person you want to annoy for the rest of your life.



If I need a Shelter
If I need a Friend
I go to the Rock!

.....I'll just stick to shooting them with my camera.

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5 Stones Workshop

Infowars
Endtime
SWRC

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
~ James Madison ~

THats fine I do it myself and enjoy it too.

big rockpile

__________________
I love being married.Its so great to find that one person you want to annoy for the rest of your life.



If I need a Shelter
If I need a Friend
I go to the Rock!

HSD
on the contrary i went right to the heart of your arguement. you expressed that it was wrong for the kid to kill the bear due to a low population (which you still contend) i showed that the population is not low & is in fact growing. you contend that hunting is a threat to game populations, i have clearly explained how hunting saved the game & is still the driving force protecting them. it is clear that truth & reality have no bearing. despite your claims, you have made up your mind against hunting (and have shown this in other threads also) and will make any assinine & false arguement in an attempt to bolster your view.

MHN
once again the ignorant & disneyesque was for HSD not you. your original statement was that kudzu & africanized bees were the results of wildlife management. i merely pointed out that that was in fact incorrect, therefore wrong. you also criticized sport/trophy hunting as being a factor in the crash of game populations. i pointed out that in fact sport/trophy hunting was the driving force behind the recovery of the game populations & the enactment of laws & seasons thus showing that you were in fact wrong.
FWIW i prefer antlerless deer myself as they tend to be better eating and smaller (and so easier to get out of the woods & butcher).

My mistake....I stand corrected.

So you say...I have a few articles that say otherwise.
(there are many more articles...I just picked a few convenient ones):

Killer Bees: http://www.desertusa.com/mag98/sep/stories/kbees.html
Read the 1st paragraph....they were trying to make...you guessed it....a "better" bee.



Kudzu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kudzu
Read the 1st 2 paragraphs under invasive species.



Oh really? (I know this is another continent, but it is the same mentality)
So these lions in the Enkosini Wildlife Sanctuary are just dying and disappearing all by themselves?
http://www.enkosini.com/CannedHunting.htm



Why do we always seem to think that nature "needs" our help. It does just fine on its own until we decide to get greedy and irresponsible with it. If we'd teach people to be responsible with our resources and respect life and the habitat around us, we'd have a lot fewer problems.

And our illustrious government, and others, have long had a bad habit of wasteful spending practices and resource mismanagement, as evidenced by this NCPA study.
http://www.ncpa.org/studies/s124.html

.....and these are but a few examples.

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Infowars
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SWRC

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
~ James Madison ~

Then I'm fine with that.

__________________
5 Stones Workshop

Infowars
Endtime
SWRC

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
~ James Madison ~