What would you do? (property infringement)

An easement to this drive may or may not make it more difficult to sell your property, but will surely drop it's value, because what could now be fenced off as pasture, or used for some other purpose by you (garden, volleyball court, etc.) is broken by a driveway and is now unusable. Without an easement, adverse possession could actually take away your land. Even with your permission, this should have been done legally with an easement, and an agreement to share costs of maintaining the shared part of your driveway. I'm sure you could give them the easement for free, if you're feeling charitable (if they pay for all the legal and survey etc. to get it done right)...but most people have to pay money to have an easement on someone else's property (to compensate for the loss of value of that land).

I think you should immediately rope off or fence off the drive until this is resolved to your satisfaction.

I also would not hire an attorney over this. You are in the right...you don't need legal representation...if they need an attorney to get this done to your satisfaction, let them pay for it. The county will be able to help you with your end of it. Until it comes to you having to sue them to restore your property, if that is what you wish, and they refuse to.

A few things that I remember about a class I took 35 years ago:

1. All real estate ownership things HAVE to be in writing. They did not do this.

2. If you see a thing and ignore it, you are implying consent and that WILL stand up in a court of law.

3. If another person uses your land as though it was theirs for a certain number of years, it can become theirs.

Things might have changed, but I doubt it. It is STILL the custom to put real estate deals of any sort into writing!

For a simple lawyers fee you can deed the needed property to the church as a donation and take a tax deduction. You would have to place a value on the land. And darn, if you simply call and tell them you want to do this they will feel mighty guilty. And enough said on your part. I am sure you dont' need anymore headaches and stumbling blocks in your own life. I sure don't.
In a bad nationwide situation, you have a place to take your charity built in. Sapphira

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It doesn't matter if you deed the land to them...someone will need an easement for the shared use of a driveway. Either it's your land and they have an easement, or it's their land and you have an easement.

I would atleast talk with a lawyer who would be looking out for your best interests. Leaving it to the church's attorney would still allow them to manipulate the deal in what ever way they want. When you go to make a deal with them; include your attorney fees in the costs. I'm not saying go sue the heck out of them; just get an attorney who will look out for you and be on your side.

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Iris
The Last Straw (aka Helinbak Farm)
Once a Marine; always a Marine

Don't be a SAP like SAPapphira suggests. Charity should spring from a warm and giving feeling in your heart, not as a way to cop-out to a pushy church board. Someone needs to put them in touch with the Christian spirit which does not include grabbing someones property because it is handy..Glen

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They think you won't make a fuss cause they're a church.

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drive 2 six foot t-post down about knee high about 5 feet apart in the road and hang a no trespassing sign between them. and then see what happens from there, dont give in to these people just bacause its a church. im sure the people that go there wouldnt let someone just put a driveway through their property.

Definately go talk to the council adn have it recorded by a third party with VIDEO. Too many churches get away with illegal things just because they are churches. It is still your property and one day you will find they have taken over your lane and you can't get to your house. Sharing a lane with a high traffic group wil ruin your drive A LOT FASTER and they probably aren't willing to share expenses of repair and maintanance. Get on th ephone tomorrow and also talk to the locla sheriff about the whole thing at last let them know what is going on.

I'd say thanks for the nice gravel pad, and store some manure on it. I find many neighbourhood disagreements can be solved through the liberal use of manure.

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Based solely on your posting...

Make it stop now... don't wait. Forget "council" or whatever and go to the pastor of the church with a cease and desist letter. Let their council talk amongst themselves, but go drive t-posts across your property line (where they put the road) and rope it off and place a "no trespassing" sign. Don't let another thing happen to the property and don't give them time to organize a "poor us, little church" campaign.

Then after contacting the church, tell them that you will be contacting the sheriff to fill out a report of the incident. (and DO IT).

Then tell them to repair what they did.


I would take a completely different tack on this had there been permission granted to use it. At our church we do the opposite, we let the business next to us use our drive to bring big trucks in on, (he owns a landscape company) so he doesn't break up his concrete drive. In exchange he plows our lot for us in the winter. It's a good arrangement for us both, but it's something we chose to allow.

I think it's the utmost of arrogance to just do something like this. It's obvious to me that you are dealing with crooked men who want to use your history and (previously) kind feelings toward the church to their advantage.

My first house I ever bought I had a "pastor" that lived next to me. The first time I met him he asked... "hey, can we put a driveway in right here? We will have to go on your property a little bit...". I said, "no". But wouldn't you know it he tried to dig that driveway anyways??? I got out my t-posts and a simple string (at first). I drove the t-posts and put up the string... right in the middle of his "we'll have to go on your property a foot or so" driveway.

He stopped digging and never spoke to me again. It was well worth my time and effort.

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You are getting screwed in the name of Jesus.

(excuse me, I know that sounds rude...and don't let your husband do as he wants, either, the property is also half yours)

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You said you didn't want to be the bad guy. You are not. The church is. Don't know what they teach at that church, but the Bible I read speaks aganist this kind of behavior. They don't respect you or your property that said. I would do what ever I had to do to regain control of my property even if it is a church. I would treat the problem the same as any other thief tried to take it without my permission. Eddie

Some friends lived on a flag lot. The house in front built a garage facing out onto the flag-lot's driveway. A lawyer advised that if this was allowed the garage owner could claim an easement or some such and their use of the driveway would become a legal right. Friends rented a large dumpster and dropped in in front of the garage doors. Cars happened to be inside at the time. Friends offered to lease the right to use the driveway for a "reasonable" monthly sum. After the agreement was signed the dumpster went away and the garage owner could get his cars out.

I advise blocking the road that's on your property, and then getting a legal rent or lease agreement from the church that makes it clear they are not using your property by right but with your permission. Charge them $1 per year if you want, but make it LEGALLY clear that they are using it with your permission. Myself I'd charge them a bundle or make them restore it to it's original condition.

Just because it's a church doesn't change anything... there's a right way and a wrong way to do things. If you don't put your foot down the church will gain the legal right to use that portion of your property... and it may even eventually become the church's land outright.

I wish it was my property in question... _I'M_ not easy to deal with either. In fact, I'm downright nasty when I'm mad... you can ask any Private who ever worked for me.

Block it, file a report with law enforcement and if they are unpleasant sue their pants off.

YOU are in the right. THEY can kiss your backside.

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Just have to agree with the others.

Was thinking 'speak softly & carry a big stick' - Clovis I think had a real good post like that.

I would not wait long at all to get the sherriff involved, but I would not run to a lawyer very fast tho. Church is wrong, you are right, you don't need to pay a lawyer unless the church goes down that path.

Block the road at the property line, tonight yet!

Talk to whomever is in charge over there, in the morning. Firmly, quietly, have what _you_ want done about this in mind & find out how soon they plan to retore things to what you have in mind. They don't get a chance to say we'd like... no. This is how I want things done to fix this tresspass. But - talk calmly & quietly. No need for emotions or anger here, that only brings up worse feelings on both sides. Be calm & cool & know what you want & when will that happen, sooner is better. Period.

I would no longer be interested in sharing any road with them any more, so I would not even discuss that option - but that is me.

How do we fix the mess you have made of my lawn, and how do we keep you off of my property in the future would be all I would discuss at this time.

A report with the sherriff would be a _real_ good idea, unless you are in an area where sherriff & church are the same person or some such.....

I would not wait to take action.

You are not the bad person.

Now, I'll get off on a tangent that I probably shouldn't but, just to clear some thoughts in my head.

(My sis & her hubby have an interesting relationship, where one thinks white & the other thinks black, and they never ever see anything the same. They have been working on a farmette, and the miscommunication & differening statements from them (to me, to friends, to contractors...) is alarming at times. Depending on your relationship with your hubby & how things work in your family, I'd want to make sure hubby never said they can go ahead with this & sorta didn't think to tell you about that - you hinted that this subject was brought up by church folks and so maybe something was said that you didn't quite get all of or something...... That could deeply complicate this, if hubby is kinda squirmming now after seeing your reaction to this & he forgot to mention some conversation......)

(You also said you 'owned' 50 feet on each side of the lane. You _own_ that property, it is not a 100 foot easement you have is it? Just have to ask, as things that are only 100 feet wide sometimes aren't owned, but only controlled by easement. Could be embarassing to find your driveway is on the church property by easement.....)

--->Paul

I'm wondering about the husband thing, too....don't let him OR the church get away with it!

What church is this, just out of curiosity?

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In Va. if you let someone take pocession (spelling??????) of a piece of land as they have they can secretly file papers in the court and in 7 years take title to the land as long as they do the up keep on the land.
Like someone else said, if you want to give it to the church, give it to them.
But if not you best stop it right now.
IMHO
Dennis

If you want to give the property to the church, then have a surveyor come out and survey the "easement" or portion that you want to give to them, have appropriate markers put in, and record the transaction at the courthouse or where ever the deeds of record are kept in your locale.

Otherwise, you are in a "no man's land" of legality because technically you own the property, someone else is using it, and you are responsible for what happens on that property (can you say LAWSUIT? if some child got on that portion and got hit by a car, bit by a dog, fell in a hole and broke a leg, etc.)

The church needs to ALSO give you a charitable gift giving receipt for the full, appraised value of the property should you give them the land. If it is an easement, terms should be drawn up describing how long such easement will be in force and what happens to the easement if the church should relocate. After all, it happens..churches move..and you could get yourself a passel of liquor store owners in there..

or a kid's roller skating rink, or.....

Right now, I'd say you got yerself a mess..

btw - I bought a cemetary when I bought my land - if I hadn't purchased the graveyard, the developer was going to remove said folks from said burial place and relocate them to the town cemetary..

NOT..since this place was their "homeplace" for over 250 years..and contained all the relatives (except one - he must have been really bad...he is down the road a piece). So I wheeled and dealed and got the cemetary and all it's 29 residents on their little 1/2 acre plot. Also got me some slave graves too, couldn't let those folk be relocated even though I had to HIRE a person who specializes in that sort of location to mark all their graves..sigh...all they had were little triangle rocks. But at least they didn't get relocated or bulldozed over since the graves were not properly marked and were not located inside the cedar post fence where the white folk were buried. So now..lol...the whites have their little piece of earth and the blacks have theirs and one of these days when I get a bit more money, I am going to combine the two areas into one and surround the whole thing with a fence. Let those that don't like that..spin awhile in their graves, I am sure that they will get used to it after awhile.

For the time being..They ARE good, quiet, peaceable neighbors..lol..

just the kind I like.

Get yourself an attorney to write a letter (never discuss when it is a legal matter..put it IN WRITING) to the church elders/deacons/board. Have discussion with the church folk in the presence of your attorney (and have them pay the fees) and then document, document , document.

Otherwise, you may never be able to sell that property later on..no one is going to want to untangle that mess, unless you could sell it to the church - course they may just move in without askin too..since they already have a driveway.

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Sidepasser, the story about the cemetary deserves it's own thread.

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