Anyone use rotational grazing.....?
 

There are a lot of schools of thought when it comes to size of paddock and frequency of rotation in an intensive grazing program.

I have been trying to brainstorm how many animal units per acre, which I am sure you know is a nightmare. (considering regional differences in weather and forage growth etc.)

I need to know because I am planning a new pasture and hopefully to add more stock as the ground can sustain them. When seeding in fall for the following spring/summer the guessing game agricultural gamble is a bit intense. :help:

Then I had a eureka moment. :dance:

....at least when it comes to moving from one pasture to another;

When the animals are at the fence line trying to graze the other side it is the natural sign they want to move on (to greener pastures) In my experience stock are usually content in a fence as long as feed is adequate. As soon as they get hungry they either overgraze (which is bad for growth and parasite issues) or they try to find creative ways to get at the fresh salad bar just outside their fence.

Using this system I think I may have a more natural method of pasture management. I am way too new at this to know at what height a particular grass/legume should be left alone for optimal regrowth, blah blah blah. :shrug:

I use management intensive rotational grazing for my sheep.

You can not rotate based on the desire to eat grass on the other side of the fence. I sometimes have a lamb or two that just always thinks "it's greener on the other side." Then there are the times when the pasture "next door" is greener but I need them to eat the grass where I have them. This happens when I am forcing them to graze overly mature fields before I rotate them back into a field that has fresh new growth.

I find the key is to keep the paddock as small as possible, otherwise they tend to selectively eat.

We use this method with our draft horses (2). We have 2 pastures -- 5 acres each that we switch them off of as the grass needs. In addition we also have a smaller paddock area that we bring them into when the rain and mud make the pasture to soft. If we do not pull them out they play heck on the grass with those tiny feet.

As long as your pasture rotation keeps up with demands -- meaning if you have ample grass all summer for your herd I think you are fine.

SWEET, you are just up my alley, may I pick your brain?

1. What forages do you plant?
2. What size paddock do you use?
3. How may sheep for how long?
4. Total pasture used as a whole for how many animals?

Thank you, Thank you , Thank you.

Were trying to grow as much as our ground can amply sustain. I want a bigger operation but also love my stock and want them to be well fed.

Know a guy who has 300 ewes and sells 600 weaned lambs on a 40 acre spread. He does get some hay and outside grain, but as a whole the sheep prices pay for those needs and it is a sustainable situation. It's a combination of the intensive grazing and cornell star breeding program.

I wish I could be that cool! The guy amazes me.

Paddocks should be sized and numbered so that when you take them off the first one, you'll be able to "rest" it for at least 4 weeks for regrowth.

If too large, they wont eat everything the way if should be, and too small wont give it sufficient time to recover.

And just when you think youve got it all figured out, the weather will change and throw your plans off.

Stockman's Grass Farmer has had a lot of interesting articles on mob grazing lately. You can seriously improve your pasture with wise management of some VERY high stocking rates...

Don't let your animals tell you when it's time to move.
Pay attention to your grass.
If you take them off after they eat only the choice stuff, the less than choice will take over.
On the other hand, I've read that you want your stock density to where they can clean it up in 3 days or less because the grass will start to grow back, and they'll ignore the not so chioice and the new grass won't get started back.

I find that what is there to eat varies with the season. In the spring, when everything is growing fast, they can be on a much smaller unit, while later, they will need twice as much or three times as much area for the same amount of time. I use portable electric fencing so that I can give them a bigger or smaller area, as needed. However, this past summer I couldn't use it because the ground was so dry.

If you pay attention, you will find that some plants they gobbled in early summer they won't touch in late summer- the nutrition level has dropped in that plant. You will find that there are some things they won't eat no matter what. These are the things you want to get rid of if you can, or throw in an animal that will eat what your original livestock won't. Sheep aren't that fond of grass and will leave it. Equine and cattle prefer grass, but will eat forbes.

My gauge of when they've eaten everything down: complaining. Sure, they may baa a little when the clover's gone, then go back to eating. When they don't go back to eating, it's time to move them. Then, I look at where they've been and see how well it's eaten down. The area may be beautifully mowed. I may think there is plenty to eat, but forage does loose nutritional value once it is going to seed/flowering, and when it's going into dormancy. Or there may be plants that simply aren't on the sheep's or donkey's menu and they won't eat. They will eat pigweed when it first sprouts, then not at all. Same with goldenrod.

How fast the grass will grow back also depends on the season. You are supposed to give grass a 21 day rest, but how long it needs varies. But, if you give your paddocks a 21 day rest, that is usually good enough, so you need to be able to keep your livestock off every area at least three weeks.

If you are planning to raise sheep, I suggest you also have something that will eat what the sheep don't, a grazer. An old horse or donkey will do, or a calf.

I went to a seminar on rotational grazing a few weeks back. He had about 60 head dairy cattle which were rotated every 12 hours. His pasture was the most healthy and lush I have ever seen, perfect ratios of legumes to grasses and nary a woody weed in sight. Apparently 10 yeara ago the field was a mess. He is getting 50-90 lbs milk per cow I believe, organic and pasture only for 7-9 months out of the year depending on the weather. He runs mixed breeds including holstein, jersey, and brown swiss

You might want to contact Cooperative Extention and see what info they have on this subject. I know Cornell in NY has a lot of info on it, as they were there presenting at the last several seminars I have attended.

Okay, so the eureka moment was not the idea, but the choice to come on here and very politely get told the correct answer to my question...........


I stand OH SO corrected and thank you guys sooo much.

Tidbits such as these can make such an enormous difference and save years of trial and ERROR.

Everyone is giving you good advice. Especially Bearfoot and Maura. As Bear says, try to have enough "paddocks" to keep them from returning to the first one for at least 30 days. To do this I use temporary electric netting like Maura. So I have an unless number of "paddocks." I am constantly taking down the old and building new ones. So in the Spring is growing fast, I use small paddocks of about 80' by 80' (because the netting is 165' long). In the heat of the summer I sometimes have to move the sheep to a farther back hay field because the grass has stopped growing and the back field has more alfalfa in it. Again I cut that hay field up into smaller paddocks. Of course when I am lazy or planning to go on vacation, I just make the paddocks a lot bigger.

I have described my fencing method here before under the Sheep forum, so for a quick description; I run a polywire on stepin with the contour of the hill for about 700' (length of the field) and power this mainline. Then off of that line I run the netting down the hill 80' and then over 80' feet like a big L. So put two or more of these L's together to make the paddock or a series of paddocks like this LLLLLLL with the mainline closing the top of the paddocks.

So lets say I have 8 commercial ewes with 12 new lambs in May. The standard paddock 80x80 with a healthy stand of grasses might be good for four days. Now two months later in July, those same 8 ewes and 12 lambs are now eating the paddock in 24 hours because of the following: cool season grasses have stopped growing, lambs are now eating grass.

I try to grow each field with a different mix of cool season grasses with warm season legumes. Each "field" is really just a contour strip of about 2 acres side by side. Each strip was originally laid out by the FSA for conservation planting which is to say the contours are about 70 feet wide (I think) to make an even number of passes with the combine or corn planter (I'm not a row crop guy).

The size of your breed, number of sheep and the growth of the grasses determine how long you can leave them in one paddock.

I am raising both commercial white face sheep and Shetlands, together mostly. Because of my health problems, my flocks have not grown I would have desired after six years of work. The fact is that I sold off all the commercial ewes in 2005 and started over again in 2006. I think the most ewes/lambs I have grazed in one paddock was 32 with five of them being Shetlands. During that time I was using about 4 acres for the whole summer of rotating with just one short period in August when I moved them to a designated "hay" field for a week because of lack of growth (rain). I have 20 acres of hay fields to play with.

Ideally you want to cover your whole place in posts & wire, make micro minni grazing cells. Rotate very, very often. Make sure they eat a cell down to not much, then get them off quickly. Don't come back for 30 days.

In the real world, we have to pay for all that, and it doesn't pencil out - at least not right away in one big bill.

Any step into rotational grazing is better than not doing it at all.

I would make a few padocks, with the idea that they could easily be sub-divided into more. Thus keep access to water & the barn & the mud yard. Allow for future sub-dividing. Plan ahead for making areas smaller, with access to your barn.

Used to have a 9 acre pasture. Over the years, I now have 3 pastures of about 3 acres each, and I also put up temp fence & graze some of the lawn/ machinery hill/ grassy areas. So I have maybe 4 paddocks. Sometimes I sub-divide the paddocks with temp fence & rotate maybe 8 areas instead of 4.

This has made a _much_ better pasture for me. Mostly the weeds are much less, the grass is some better.

I know dividing smaller would help more, but at least I'm able to clean out areas of all grass, and allow other areas to grow back. More grass, less weeds, it's a good thing.

It isn't a perfect science anyhow. Different years give different growing conditions, and you will be burried in grass or desperately short, no matter what your program.

This past year has been the 2nd worst drought I have lived through. I didn't know that was going to happen, so I let the cattle graze off one paddock very short, on May 15th I planted corn into the sod & kept the cattle out. I planned to spray to kill the sod off, rework that paddock, put it in corn for a year. Well the corn got 6 inches high, then got shorter. Pretty much couldn't see it any more. I never did bother to spray it. August 15th, we got a small rain the week before, & the corn showed up again. The grass was maybe 6 inches high & _very_ thin, the corn got about knee high & was thinking about tasseling. I put the cattle in to graze it off - other paddocks were eated all gone of corse. Sure glad I never sprayed it. But, 90 days worth of growth, & that stuff wasn't big enough to cut & bale!

This is low land, tends to be wet. Just was dried out already by May 15th, & we didn't get any rain for 80 days.

Weather will make the final sayso for your plans. :)

--->Paul

Currently we are in a major drought, the highest level that is charted. Last week my herd grazed the last grass. I am currently feeding cotton gin by-products as the availability of hay is nonexistent. Small square bales are bringing $10/bale. Up until last week I had been doing rotational grazing successfully for 4 1/2 years. If the cattle and I survive the drought we are going back to rotational grazing. For cattle, the optimum paddocks IMO are long rectangular ones that can be separated at whatever distance you desire with the electrified twine and some small step-in posts. The long rectangular paddocks permit efficient mowing and spreading of fertilizer. Various times of the year mandate different sizes of the paddocks. Always graze the tallest grass first regardless of the height. To determine the size of paddock needed is rather simple for cattle. All you need to do is to confine the cattle with the electrified twine to a section of the rectangle and to time the period for the cattle to graze an area down to 3 inch height in 45 minutes. Double that size and you have the ideal paddock size for the time of year and the available forage for a day of grazing. This will optimize the available acreage. Kinda simple isn't it? It is amazing how little a farmer has to know! :rolleyes:

Are you speaking of Terry in Trenton Illinois?

He has a great set up for rotaional grazing.

I can give you my experience with rotational grazing. I started with the county Conservation District and Natural Resources Conservation District. They came to the farm, evaluated the forage that was growing on the old hay field, taught me how to measure and calculate the amount of growth and when to move the sheep to a new paddock. The standard in Michigan for sheep is 5 head per acre. I applied for and received dollars to put up fencing. I put woven wire around the perimeters of the big field and split it into three rectangles. Included a narrow lane so the sheep could have access to the barn/water when fenced in the back section of the rectangles.

That being said, I move the sheep when I think they are ready, watching for the condition of the growth in that paddock. The weather plays a huge role in when you move and not, but it does pay to be able to judge the amount of forage available, giving you an estimate of the amount of time the animals need to be in the paddock so I can then decide if I need to hay one or more of the other paddocks. NRCS gave me a pasture stick that has the equations on it.

The agency worked closely with me, this area of the farm was in a watershed that became eligible for the Conservation Security Program. Basically what this program does is pay the producer a $ amount per acre for doing the right thing on their property to protect the environment. I know many people here are against the USDA programs but I have found by going through the application process for the various programs I have learned a great deal. The $'s I received from the program encouraged me to do the rotational program set up where I was previously just pasturing the whole field and buying hay when it became to coarse and unpalitable for the sheep. These programs are here to help the small producer as well as the big corporate farms. This is a resource that is available, free of charge and if your willing to do the work can help with the finances. Lets face it, a 330' roll of fence is nearly $300 in my area. 330 feet doesn't go far. Having some help with that cost was worth it. It helped me to continue in the business of raising sheep.

Hope this doesn't run this thread off in the ditch.

We used to intensive graze our dairy cows.... or pasture area was around 50 acres and we had 40 cows on the grazing program. We used fiberglass posts and poly fence wire for ease of moving....we brought the cows in to be milked in the mornings and while they where in the barn we went out and moved the fence. We would give them about an acre and move the fence again during the night milking.....so they got about 2 acres per 24 hr period....We would spread manure and lime on the old lot and each subsuquent lot as the fence moved. The pasture would last almost a month per rotation and would be knee high when they got to a new section. We also provided plenty of water with a 1000 gal milk tank mounted on a trailer that we moved with the fence. we had a small poly stock tank that had a float valve that was filled from the tank.

We run 40 ewes, 6 cow/calves, and 25 meat goats on 20 acres of pasture from April until the beginning of November. Like most here, we use the grass as a gauge as to when to move the stock to a new paddock. Our cows have gotten spoiled on good grass most of summer, so I have to make them "clean their plate". With the grass growth slowing down, we will probably be feeding supplimental hay within a week. We have 8 paddocks, ranging between 1 and 3 acres. We are next to wetlands, so we have fenced irregular paddocks according to topography. The NRCS . can be a good resource to start, but I would also recommend a subscription to the Stockman Grass Farmer, it is well worth the subscription price.

Sugarbush,

When you were doing this, were you running 40 cows, or 20 cow/calf pairs, or some other combination?

Thanks.

We are going to be doing rotational grazing, too. I'm probably going to buy the book called Managment Intensive grazing, I know it's sold by Acres USA. (Acres usa has some fantastic literature!) We just need to figure out where to put fencing, where to put this, that and oops yah that too!! Hopefully we can keep soil on the hills, which composes roughly 99% of the pasture. We plan on turning the ravines into forested areas, with low growing, tough barked trees for the goats. (Goats eat up, not down!) (Anyone know of a short-growing, fast-growing tough-barked tree? I don't. Maybe we just keep pruning them??)

I used to think rotational grazing was when our cows got into the neighbors cornfield.

How about weeping willow? It grows fast and gets tall, but the limbs dangle down. Is willow bark tough enough?

It is so much fun. Poly wire and electric fence make it easy. When it is time to move cows they will know it and they'll be waiting on you.

It is easy to overthink. Just start with small sqaure paddocks. They work better than long slender paddocks. Get water to each paddock in the least costly way you can think of.

I have polly pipe laying on the ground with Plasson quick couplers for long runs that I can connect to a moveable plastic water tub and short garden hose. I call it "plug and play."



Sometimes you can drag the water tub from one paddock to the next buy just moving it under the wire. Untie the wire and get out of the way for the cows to move through. Retie the wire.

We do rotational grazing of our sheep and pigs. We have a strong smooth wire electric fence around the outside perimeter. The paddocks are divided by weaker fences - fewer lines, step in posts, polywire. I do not worry about fencing in the piglets, chickens, lambs, etc. They move with the herds and creep graze a little. The bigger animals respect the paddock fences. I watch the forage height and then open a gate when it is time to rotate. The animals move over and I close the gate. Rarely do I have to do more than that for herding. You should be deciding when to rotate as you want the animals to mow down the section well and not just cherry pick the most succulent forages. Otherwise you end up having to mow. I don't mow - too many steep hills, loud, rocks, stumps, etc.

See:

http://www.google.com/search?q=site:...onal%20grazing

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project:
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/butchershop
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/csa

Highlands-
You say you have sheep, how well do they work in rotational grazing? I absolutely refuse to use the portable netting - I hate it. It is SO amazingly difficult to move. I prefer to use the polywire. It works for sheep, in my experiences...it's just, if they decide to get out...they get out.
Bret- good idea with the inexpensive portable watering systems. I'd thought of it, but what about for when they are far away?...

You might try looking for a book called, "All Flesh is Grass." I read it a couple of years ago and thought it was really good.

lol uncle will ! I've had a couple of cows over the years that were *rotationally grazing* my garden.

and I've never owned a single @\?% cow !

Wow, old thread - October 2007! If anyone hasn't seen it, there is an extensive thread in the cattle section on rotational grazing - http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/sho...d.php?t=286704