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09/16/07, 09:23 PM
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talk little, listen much
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: IOWA
Posts: 1,696
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don't kill them
you don't need to kill them to keep them away. Use motion sensitive lights to spook them and every so often change the direction so it doesn't become comfortable and will still spook them. When you see them in your yard fire a shot over the top of them to spook them some more, but don't kill them - you might not have it so easy with the next preditor that will take their place.
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There can be no happiness if the things we believe in are different from the things we do.
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09/16/07, 09:40 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 106
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I don't know how much land you have but unless it is 1,000s of acres, trying to eradicate them is pointless unless you can get every neighbor on board. Build brush piles as far away from where you don't want them to be and do everything you can to encourage rabbits to want to live there. That way, you don't have to worry about disrupting the rhythm, tilting the earth off its axis and causing a complete collapse of our atmospheric bubble.
And then shoot the ones that get closer than you want. Survivors are pretty good learners. "Hey, over here is an all you can eat bunny buffet and over there is #4 buckshot. Let's stay here for dinner". They are smart animals. They learn the path of least resistance. That is why so many chickens and sheep get killed by them. Slow dumb animals that don't know how to survive here. As your caretaker, you have an obligation to protect them and you can best do that by strongly discouraging them to come around AND providing a place where their needs can be met. Most of them will figure it out quickly. Kill the others and forget about it.
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Every good farm needs team work
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09/16/07, 10:27 PM
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Wife, mom and doula
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 334
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I thought I might be opening a can of worms asking this but I so appreciate all the different perspectives. We are on 20 acres, not too terribly remote. I am new to homesteading, fresh from suburbia, and want to make wise, unhurried decisions.
I can't fence the whole area in, unfortuantely and have not bought any kind of firearm yet. I certainly don't want to wait for a disaster(dead chickens or kittens) but neither do I want to act impulsively. Our neighbor says they are great gopher control which ,if they stay out away from the house, is great. I am really uncomfortable with them being so confident, so close to the house. My daughter is getting a dairy goat in Feb as her 4-H project, and she will be kept in the barn at night as well.
If I shot at shot at ones that came too close to the house, would they be likely to move on? I guess I'd have to stay up and stealthily spy to see when tehy show up? Hmm....
How real of a threat are they to people? What if someone had to go out late and came upon them in the yard? I am a birth doula and frequently get called to a birth in the middle of the night. I know with all these questions I'm revealing my true newbie status but oh well!
We do plan to get a dog in the spring...
Thanks for all the helpful advice. Still not sure what I'll do though I'm leaning toward encouraging them away from the house.
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09/16/07, 11:31 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: scott county, virginia
Posts: 845
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goat is on the menu for coyotes guess will need to get ya a gun.
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09/16/07, 11:36 PM
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Dutch Highlands Farm
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Along the Stillaquamish, Washington
Posts: 1,642
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It can be pretty spooky to have a predator show up in your yard! I haven't seen any on our property since our Highland cow ran one through a fence and probably sent him ass over teakettle since she had blood on one of her horns. The chickens are behind electric netting and I haven't lost a single bird inside the netting in three years. They have never bothered the rabbits who are in the woodshed at the back of the wellhouse. Out of sight of the house and backed up to a stand of trees. The goats are either in the barn or with the cow. The Anatolian and GSM are on bark patrol.
Unfortunately the neighbor won't protect her ducks and wonders why the coyotes eat them. Gets me PO'd. They've been lucky with their goats and calves, so far. I see coyotes in their field studying the place a couple of times each week.
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If angels existed, they'd probably be considered big game. (Don Swain)
Home schooling.........not just for scary religious people anymore. Buffy
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09/16/07, 11:40 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 106
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While there have been a couple instances of coyotes going after people, it is basically a nonissue. They would have to be very starved before being brave enough to go after you. I don't know what your daughter's age is but she is likely big enough to not have much of a concern if she is old enough to do 4H goats. Yes, it has happened but it is really rare and unusual.
If you shoot at them without hitting them, certainly they will scatter and disappear but be assured, they will be back. It won't take a bunch of warning shots before they learn not to fear that either. I doubt they'd ever not take off when you shot or shouted, but they would quickly learn not to high tail it to the next county but just back off, wait a few minutes and come back.
They very likely have few, if any, things preying on them and that is what leads to the brazen closeness to people. Teach them to fear you and they will. Since you can't sit out there around the clock, you might be best served by sticking something out there that can be there always and have it teach them to fear it. A dog may well be your best option but if they are as brazen as you say (and that certainly isn't unreasonable), I'd want a big livestock guard dog or at least two medium dogs. It doesn't take a lot of guard dog power to send them packing unless there isn't much else out there in the way of food. It is easier for them to saunter to the next chicken coop or brush pile than get in a dog fight. Little dogs, like cats, are often coyote chow but one or two with the right mindset and grit can do a pretty darn good job of keep them at bay as well.
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Every good farm needs team work
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09/17/07, 02:14 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 6,352
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 Dog is sometimes on the menu for coyotes too; I'm all for letting animals alone that aren't bothering me or mine, but a bunch of coyotes "teasing" my dogs through the fence would be history... rather a few dead coyotes than bury a beloved dog, thank you.
It''s not just tiny dogs they get, either... growing up, there was a pack in our area that was jumping fences and killing good sized dogs, too. Dad still has a couple skins in the attic from back then, IIRC.
I would hedge my bets they're scoping out your property and figuring out just how to get at those chickens, and will have no qualms about tearing up a couple tame dogs in the process.
ETA: Mine have never had to fight anything and are too brash for their own good, but if I had a couple LGDs it would be a different story. Instead I have silly things that think they could bring down a buffalo when truly a good sized housecat gives them a run for their money.
Last edited by jen74145; 09/17/07 at 02:16 AM.
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09/17/07, 08:22 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Northern New Mexico
Posts: 1,701
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by oceanmist
A coyote is an opportunistic forager. They don't prefer mice, squirrels, etc. They prefer whatever is the EASIEST source of food.
They don't need scraps of food laying around to draw them in, especially if you've got chickens... take a wiff of the coop! It's the poo that they smell and recognize as meaning a meal.
Any predator that doesn't show humans proper respect.. and yes the fear of humans is a natural, instinctual God designed mechanism that should expected from any healthy animal...
that said when any predator loses that fear, they pose a threat. To us, to our children, to our animals.
Coyotes carry disease, that is certainly one reason why they should not be ignored when they walk up to your front door regardless of the hour.
These guys are simply waiting for the opportunity to kill.
Put up some fencing, get a LGD, but quit ignoring what will eventually be a disaster.
Misty
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Interesting post, thanks.
Are you saying that coyotes have lost the fear for humans?
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09/17/07, 08:38 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: northcentral MN
Posts: 14,378
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In order to reduce coyote populations it takes an annual kill of greater than 50%. Anything less and the number of pups surviving increases enough to compensate according to a book I read on coyote biology.
Coyotes do provide a valuable service of controlling rodent populations. Rodents have evolved to increase their population rapidly if left unchecked.
I've read that coyote control in the southwest has actually led to reduced forage production because the coyotes no longer controlled the rodents that were competing with the cattle.
I also disagree that killing an animal is always the best and first option. That attitude doesn't take into account the importance of maintaining biodiversity for our own future wellbeing.
__________________
"Do you believe in the devil? You know, a supreme evil being dedicated to the temptation, corruption, and destruction of man?" Hobbs
"I'm not sure that man needs the help." Calvin
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09/17/07, 08:40 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: far north Idaho
Posts: 11,134
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It could be worse Doula; our neighbor called last night to tell us that she had chased a grizzly off her deck away from the bird feeders and it was headed our way. We never saw it but our Great Pyrenees did a lot of barking later in the evening.
Where near Spokane do you live? We are over the border near Newport.
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09/17/07, 09:06 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 3,030
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We have an awful lot of them, but they haven't made the effort to get through the field fence that surrounds the chicken coop in the 14 years we've been here. I figure there is a healthy enough rabbit and mouse population around here to make getting through the fence and past three 90 pound German Shepherds not worth their while. We did find the remains of a dead one in the woods though, that looked like it had been eaten by something big (the skull was crunched in half). I'm not worried about the coyotes bothering us, but whatever is big enough to eat one makes me nervous! When you get your dog, a big one is always a good homestead addition. A string of electric around your goat fence (if you get the Red Brand goat fence, it is already quite tall and has smaller holes) would certainly be a good thing too. As for a firearm, my husband has some kind bullet that he puts in a 22 rifle that makes tiny little pellets that aren't likely to kill a coyote, but would hurt pretty bad I imagine. I don't know what they are called (Maybe 36 grain? I'm firearm illiterate), but one of our gun savy members might know.
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Melissa
Reformed hoyden. Please forgive me if I relapse.
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09/17/07, 09:13 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 422
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jessepona
my daughter doesn't go outside unless I do and neither does our dog. We haven't had any trouble with rabbits in our garden so unless they start getting into our chickens, I'll let them alone.
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Sounds like you are letting the coyotes dictate what you do and when. I say its easier to keep rabbits out of my garden than to let a predator (s) run my life.
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09/17/07, 11:28 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Northern New Mexico
Posts: 1,701
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by fishhead
Coyotes do provide a valuable service of controlling rodent populations. Rodents have evolved to increase their population rapidly if left unchecked.
I also disagree that killing an animal is always the best and first option. That attitude doesn't take into account the importance of maintaining biodiversity for our own future wellbeing.
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The majority of people responding to this question, including me, did not advocate killing the coyotes as the best and first option.. Fencing was by far the most advocated approach. And as to rodent control, I have black snakes that live within feet of my house and they are very effective at controlling any rodents in the area. I am much happier with the black snakes than I would be relying on coyotes eating rodents.
I am a big advocate of living with nature, after all the animals were here first, and I moved into their home place. But I draw the line with coyotes...and maybe groundhogs..
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09/17/07, 02:31 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Northern Michigan (U.P.)
Posts: 9,491
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Where one "draws the line" has more to do with their contact with them than with their own violent nature. I wouldn't have considered blowing up a beaver dam, until I lost 10 acres of high quality hardwoods to the backwater flooding their dams created. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could live with nature without upsetting any animals. Not possible. If I live on the edge of a major city, I can object to the hunting of bears or wolves or beaver or racoons. But when you live amoung them, your attitude changes. Homesteading by its very nature pushes back the wilderness and displaces some animals. Farming often inhances wildlife, too.
If we'd be honest with ourselves, we'll see that we draw the line on a lot more than coyotes. Fleas, ticks, mice, rats, bats, moles, racoons, lambsquarters, etc. Our "at peace with our environment" is selective at best. Some want to tolerate blood thursty predators, but destroy rodent habitat by raking the leaves from their yards. Simply bringing farm animals into the environment alters nature.
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09/17/07, 02:42 PM
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Wife, mom and doula
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 334
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I am in north Chattaroy about 25 milesfrom newport.
Sounds like a dog is the way to go but we really want to get a puppy so it'd be a while til he/she would be helpful.
I'm not opposed to shooting a few to dissuade them from coming close but I have basically no gun skills. I need to do some research and take a gun safety course.
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09/17/07, 04:04 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 353
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We have had good luck using Fire Crackers and Air Horns to run off the coyote. We are not good enough shots to try to shoot them, and besides that they are here at night and we would not be safe to shoot in the dark anyway. We do keep the dogs inside an 8 foot high wire dog run/barn at night, cats are locked inside the barn too. We have various motion lights but the main thing we do to scare the coyote = when we do hear them close, we either blast the air horn a few times (it is a can we buy at Lowe's or Walmart and it hooks to a top and it blasts out a very loud air horn noise) or we toss out a few packs of "mad dogs" (my kids call them "mad dogs" they are those Fire Crackers that are about 12 little ones all hooked together and they make a loud pop pop pop all at once) and that runs them off. We alternate what we use and we move the outside solar motion lights too.
I have not done this next idea but a friend did = she had only 7 acres and the coyote kept coming around, she took ground beef and tossed it in woods several miles from her house where there was only woods. She claimed that she did this 2 or 3 times a week for a while and the coyote stopped coming her way.
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09/17/07, 05:51 PM
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zone 5 - riverfrontage
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Forests of maine
Posts: 5,869
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Sss
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09/17/07, 06:51 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 12,448
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You can shoot them if you want to but it will not put a dent in the number of coyotes. You shoot one and another moves in his place. If you spend the same amount of time and money building fences and pens for your livestock you will not be bothered by coyotes. If you choose to have your livestock where coyotes can get them you will have a full time job shooting coyotes and buying new livestock. You may shoot some but they will be replaced by others who will kill your livestock anyway.
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09/17/07, 09:32 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: UT
Posts: 3,840
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yes they can sustain 80% mortality and recover w/the next breeding, but they are also extremely smart and the sight of a dead coyote or two hung on the fence will make them avoid the area long after they have forgotten why.
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09/17/07, 11:09 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: n. arkansas
Posts: 561
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Can't fence the whole property, how about just around the house and yard?
If coyotes get real hungry they will come up during the day (not just night) looking for whatever.
One afternoon my aunt was sitting on her porch, heard a ruckus, jumped up to see a coyote after one of her chickens IN THE YARD and the chase was on! She was hysterical! She went running from the porch and made so much noise the coyote dropped the chicken and took off.
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