The Cost of Easements

Ok drew it since it the pictures would make it more confusing.
[IMG][/IMG]

The question mark is because that little triangle does not exist. No clue how I ended up with it. The purple oil road is how I get to my home now. The grey "legal access" is what I need to use. But in both places I can use it the canal cuts through it. The legal access does connect to the road about half a mile or so away. The little brown road in the right hand corner is the easement for neighbor #1 as well as the other neighbor. They are having a peeing contest over it and throwing up gates.
The For Sale property is who Neighbor #1 is trying to have sell us an easement. So yes painterswife I would have to go through the edge of both their properties to get to mine. I really thought an attorney told me that was not an option. But neighbor #1's says sure ya can after you pay $30,000.

__________________
You may not copy my posts or pictures without my consent on this board or any other.

Can an easement parallel to the canal and to the right of the canal across "estate empty" and the land between Oil Rd and "Legal Access rd" be obtained? This would give you a private drive to the main rd since you own ( ? ) and this would allow you to access all the property you own.

__________________
Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

If you have legal deeded access over someone elses property they may own the land, but you have the legal right to use what, maybe 30 to 100 ft. width of access. They do have the right to put up a gate, but it is illegal to lock it (lock you out) or lock out fire/police/ambulance vehicles.

Been there, done that - "crazy lady" down the road put up a "grudge gate" that now stands open after being taken to court....

Although agmantoo's suggestion is a good option, it may cost you PLUS you'd still have to build a bridge.

It appears to me that you don't want to build a bridge because others will use it. I'd try to mend feelings with the neighbors who would use the bridge, get all the costs yourself & then see if they'd help pay for it.

OR

if the cost of buying an easement from the property that is for sale is cheaper than the cost of the bridge, maybe that's the way to go.

Maybe you can trade your legal access across the for sale property portion for legal access on the oil road...That would be of benefit to the for sale property as his property wouldn't be cut up as much and he could better utilize it..

Do your homework, deal direct with the owner of the for sale property. Ignore the pettieness of your neighbors. I'd try for a legal access trade over the for sale property. Give him the benefits of the trade.

Good luck!

[QUOTE=thaiblue12]Ok I was allowed to buy, build and receive a C.O. for my property and house. Problem is I have no stinking access to my property. My neighbor #1 has allowed us to drive through an oil road to get to our house. Which he can cut off at any time. This puts me in the position that when asked for favor and such I run to do them. Put up with alot of nonsense and such.
Contacted the realtor who sold us this place and they are "innocent" since I do have legal access. Plus the guy is now doing time!
QUOTE]

Perfect reason to ALWAYS hire a realestate lawyer to represent you in ANY land transaction.

They are cheap compaired to the price you pay for land or homes. There is NO reason ANYONE should not hire and be represented by a realestate lawyer.

When I do small realestate transactions with close blood family. I and They still hire lawyers. Its not that we do not trust each other. Its to make sure it is done right.

The realator is in no way at fault. You are.

Even at this point. I would look for a lawyer to help you. They would be best to refrance and search for the best way to do this. They can draw up deals and such for you in the best way. They can steer you in the BEST way to do this for all parties.

You are talking some real bucks. Why not spend 500-1000 bucks and hire someone that knows what they are doing?

A canal in my area is a public water way. THIS IS NOT THE SAME IN ALL AREAS. Some areas may call it a natural water way. In this case you can not effect it in any way. Get a lawyer.

There is a site called www.askalawyer.com

I would post your problem over there and see what ya get.

If price is a matter for getting a local real estate lawer to help you out. Go talk to one. They can work per job or per hour.

You can help your self and same a ton of money by doing simple document stuff for them. THIS IS VERY NORMAL.

They will need documents from the county. You go pick them up and bring them to them. This will save you money. They will tell you what they need. Were to get it and give you any documents you need to obtain them. I HAVE NOT FOUND ONE YET. That would not work this way. Many times its not a problem as it is your land you are trying to work a deal on. So your neibors records are available.

The most I have ever in My AREA had to pay (not all areas are the same) spent was for a very hard to figure out land deal. Was 1800 bucks. Took almost a month to get it done. Because of paper work.

I paid by the hour. I or my mother did the leg work if we could. Some things we could not. Do not figure just because title insurance was obtained everything is ok. IT IN MANY CASES IS NOT!.

This land had always been sold on a hand shake in the early years. Took a long time to get the paper work needed to get it deded right. Not just a deed. A good and right deed.

I think I got a steal. No one else wanted to do the law work it took to get this deal done. I picked up a nice 150k deal for $12,500 (started at 30k but dealt down for the lawers to work so hard) including the lawyer and documentation fees. 3 Level and tillable acres, machine shed and 3 bed room house on a unfinished basement.

These poor folks just wanted to sell, but it had to be sellable. It was not. We had to work that out. Got it free and clear with no existing easments. There is a clause and pricing for any future easments. As well as any past ownership.

I can find no reason why you should not seek out a good real estate lawyer in your area to give you a hand.

I do not know if this would help you or not. It at least provides case law in Colorado.

http://www.masterslawfirm.com/Easement1.htm

From your diagram, You would have to buy two easements. You would have to buy from both owners.

Your next move is two see who has legal right to use the easement(with bridge) that you have.

The others may have no legal right to it and if you built a bridge you could gate it. Of course this would also depend on who owns the property that your easement is across. They would have the right to use it.

Realisticlly, the owner of the property for sale would be shooting himself in the foot by selling an easment on the proprerty. Neigbor #1 does not have any right to let you use an easement he bought and is trying to pull one over on you.

In the long run your best option is to convince Neighbor # 1 to go in on a bridge with you( if he has legal use to the same easement)

Jill

I am not a lawyer. I own and live on property that uses eaement to get to it and has easments across it. I have researched the court cases in regards to easements.

I'm curious, relative to the price you paid for your irrigation and neigbor's land locked piece of property, how much is it going to cost you to have permanent access to your property?

Since you are already legally tied to your property, that would be my deciding factor. If it looks like the access will cost more the property, wouldn't it make more sense to admit your mistake and cut your losses then paying more for the access then either are marketably worth? Best case might be to have one of your bordering neighbors make you an offer for you land.

Marlene

__________________
It is the one with persistence and determination that brings great ideas into being.

Several things to think about... (I've done my land law research in Texas, don't know if the same rules apply in every other state!)

From the size and configuration of this 'subdivision', it looks like this parcel may have originally been all tied together and owned by the same person. IF it was owned by one person, and then subdivided, each subdivided parcel would have legal access via the most common route.

The oil road, is it owned? by an individual, or is that common or public? Some deeds around here still include acreage taken in by county and state highways... so that a person technically owns the land, although the state controls it.

You say you own the "?" land? Does it have a right of way along the good road? If so, I think you're r.o.w. starts before the other two neighbors. I'd doublecheck with the tax office/county appraisal and verify that I owned that land. If so, is that oil road on that property? If so, I'd be charging the other two neighbors for access....... and then maybe they'll all sign agreements letting each other travel freely on the road.

I see the other tract is for sale. Does the preferred (present access route) road exist on this property? If someone bought it, would they gain access of the road? How much is that lot? Could be worth buying it, just to get legal access to your back lot....... I bought 100 acres up the road from my place about ten years ago, just so that I could gain legal access to my old home place. You could buy that lot, grant yourself easements to your back lot, make the other two neighbors pay 15K each, then sell the place to someone else.

Painterswife said "My neighbors have an easement across my property for access. I would never in a million years let them sell or allow someone else to use that easement." If you've granted an easement, it's transferable to any and all heirs and assignees, in perpetuity. That is, if you've granted a legal easment. Only uneducated folks, who don't go through lawyers or real estate agents, will accept restrictive easements. One of my neighbors has been fueding with another neighbor for decades over an easement.... one neighbor offered the other a lifetime easement to the owners, gratis, the other neighbor wouldn't accept, as the bank said it was worthless.... bank required permanent, transferable easement, before they'd allow anyone to build on it... they wouldn't risk losing access to their mortgaged investment.

If a person grants an easement, they receivers can put in a trailer park, or sell off mini parcels, and every yahoo gets easement rights.

Soooooo, my advice would be,

....check on that ? land and see if road touches property, and voila, you've got ownership of the road before your neighbors... problem solved.

....check on price of lot for sale, may be worth purchasing, owning, granting and selling easements, then sell the land to someone else.

BTW... where are you located in CO, and how much do they want for the parcel in question?

good luck

__________________
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

Agman I cannot drive near the canal, they made that one perfectly clear. Even threatened me with the State Police.
Daytrader I have sent my message to the link you sent me, thanks.
Texican yes it was all at one time owned by the same person. This I found from my many trips to the county and looking through records. They recorded no access that I could find.
Yup the oil road is owned by the For Sale/Empty lot as well a neighbor #1. The oil company has an easement through there. It is that easement that neighbor #1 is trying to buy. He is trying to buy the empty lot as well. No I cannot buy it I cannot afford it. It is also what they called a dry lot and has no water rights and was allowed one well for the entire thing. I do not own "?" that piece of land does not exist. It some how ended up there during me drawing this up.
I pay nothing for irrigation, my property has no water rights but I do have a full use well.
My neighbr will not lay out a single dime for the bridge. This was spoken about many times and he refuses. The bridge would run on the county's road so anyone could use it and I have no right to stop them, plus I would have to be the one to maintain it. In addition the other neighbor would like the bidge as well so he can subdivide his property and have two exits as per the county. He also refuses to pay a dime but wants to use it as well as anyone who buys his parcels.
A true mess and clearly the cost of easements as whatever they feel they want or can get away with.

__________________
You may not copy my posts or pictures without my consent on this board or any other.

"Painterswife said "My neighbors have an easement across my property for access. I would never in a million years let them sell or allow someone else to use that easement." If you've granted an easement, it's transferable to any and all heirs and assignees, in perpetuity. That is, if you've granted a legal easment. Only uneducated folks, who don't go through lawyers or real estate agents, will accept restrictive easements. One of my neighbors has been fueding with another neighbor for decades over an easement.... one neighbor offered the other a lifetime easement to the owners, gratis, the other neighbor wouldn't accept, as the bank said it was worthless.... bank required permanent, transferable easement, before they'd allow anyone to build on it... they wouldn't risk losing access to their mortgaged investment."

A properly drafted, and recorded easement is tied to and granted to only certain properties. That means only the owners( and their guests) of a piece of property with the easement can use it. They can sell the property and the easement goes with it. It does not allow them to sell use of the easement to their neighbors or the property down the road from them.

In Texas, the fact of the land all being owned by one person in the past is all that is necessary for easements to be granted..... no written records of easements are necessary. I'd go to the courthouse and look through the law books, or, condense my words down to a sentence, call a land attorney and ask "If a property were owned by one person, then subdivided, would all subdivided properties on said parcel have r.o.w.'s?" CO may be different.

I spent half a day in the law library finding out all the facts over easements. I now own my own law library (although it's easier now to go online).

__________________
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

hum you can cross the irrigation canal just have to do it at the legal road for you not any were else!! if they complain just asking them when they are going to build the bridge they are suposed to build. they built a canal thay have to build a way to cross it. just whip out the property map you got from the county ou have one right? otherwise the oil road is proberly public. does it have a sign saying oil etc a gate?

Hey Tblue 12, Tell the truth for the benefit of all, didn't you truly believe you were getting a good deal when you bought it? You seem to blame just about everyone in the state for your fix when it is clear you simply failed to do due dilligence before buying. Time to man up and accept the cost of your education...Glen

__________________
The more a man travels, acquires wisdom and learns about life, the more likely he is to marry a Country Girl.

Or maybe they made an honest mistake and thought they had asked the right questions.

We are not all perfect and get it right the first time.

thaiblue12,

Any chance you can provide the legal description of the easement?

Mike

Well quietstar I do not think I have been blaming everyone in the state nor have I lied. In this area the county does not care about you, your easement issues and etc. If a house can be built here and they can get you to pay taxes then so be it. I am not alone with this type of problem. Others need bridges, neighbors to grant easements and so on. Who is everyone in the state that I am blaming? The county allowed it so that annoys me and the realtor lied, that is about all the people I feel annoyance to.
Thanks painterswife, I did think I asked the right questions. Just like I asked how much it would cost to bring electricity to the property and the realtor said " Oh the estimate the owners got was $3,000" Come to find out later it would cost $11,000 and the realtor and the owners knew it.
So sometimes asking is not enough and I have learned that the hard way. Next time I will not buy a piece of land this far off a road and I will get an attorney. Oh wait I am stuck here for a loooong loooong time. lol

Mike I will try to sift through all my house papework and get you that description.

__________________
You may not copy my posts or pictures without my consent on this board or any other.

One thing to check is how long the "oil road" you are using has been used to access the property.

The following http://www.houselist.com/forms/que/easement.htm says that if that road has been in use to access that property for 18 years( Colorado Law) you have a legal right to use it.

I know it is a long shot but worth looking at.

Jill

This is a complicated question, and you need a lawyer. Really, you need one. This is going to depend a lot on the details of the various land transactions (including the initial subdivision) and CO law. You will not be able to do it yourself, or with advice from an internet forum based on the law of other states. As it happens, I am a lawyer. But I don't do real estate and am not in CO, so I'm not just trying to get you to hire a lawyer in hopes of getting work out of it.

As for the neighbor negotiating an easement. Have you considered the possibility that the $30K is what he believes it will take to actually get the easement, and the $20K is the first offer in what he expects to be an extended negotiation?