Affordability of a small farm around Cranberry PA area? - (lengthy post)

Michael W. Smith · #21 09/11/07, 08:47 AM

If you live in the "boonies" now, I don't think you would be happy anywhere around Cranberry. And even if you did find a place, I wonder how long it would be before the McMansions found you?

My wife's brother lives in Butler, and in that area, all the farms are being bought up to build McMansions, shopping malls, and Walmarts. It makes me sick to see all that nice farmland turned into miniature yards or paved over.

You would really need to come out here and look around BEFORE you make a decision. PA really is great - however I prefer country life to city life. I live around Brookville, PA and it truly is country life here. Going to Butler is like a visit to the city. Like I said, there is still some country left in that area, but I have to wonder for how long?

stickinthemud · #22 09/11/07, 09:41 AM

CJ-
I agree 100% with Michael W Smith.

If what we saw visiting the Ozarks (from Springfield Mo to FT Smith Ar) is typical, Western Pennsylvania will feel like home--wooded plateau cut up into hollows. Winters are longer, I guess. Trees start to change color in late September and leaves are mosty gone by early November. Spring woods green-up is late April to early May. Check a climate zone map but microclimate is everything. The urban front of our house in town is at least two zones away from the hollow out back!

Check out Google Earth. First thing I'd do.

The region's population is declining but SPRAWL is increasing. Venango & Clarion Counties are still rural. Butler close to I-79 is developing rapidly. You might add Beaver County to your search, but especially there
YOU MUST SEE BEFORE YOU BUY!
Much of Beaver is farm country but there are too many ex-industrial sites, strip mines, abandoned dumps, etc in this area to do your search from a distance!

Winter in the RV sounds iffy. Most (but not all) years there are only a couple of extended cold snaps keeping temperatures in the teens and below, but t can get down below zero. Usually freeze-thaw much of the winter.

There are bargains out there, hope you find one.
Good luck!
Cindy

mjw15618 · #23 09/11/07, 10:15 AM

I live just outside of Apollo, in Westmoreland County, and I can tell you that acerage is at a premium. I bought 5 acres in 1998 for 40K and built a log home on it in 1999-2000. My taxes are still pretty reasonable, though....about $2800 a year on property and a house worth about 325K. I commute to Pittsburgh - about 80 miles a day round trip - and the traffic is a nightmare. I lived in Monroeville for 7 years before I built my house and all I can tell you is that you will absolutely hate it! It's one strip mall after another with horrible traffic all the time. Over all, the Pittsburgh area is really nice. Welcome to PA!

baldylocks · #24 09/11/07, 11:56 AM

I grew up in Forest county (near Venango cty where "the other" Cranberry is). My parents still live there. It's too bad your position is near Pittsburgh because in Venango/Forest, etc, it is definitely possible to get land/house in the range you are looking for. Not that helps your situation but Forest county and surrounding counties would be awesome homesteading places. Taxes aren't too bad by PA standards and it is boonies for sure...anyhow, your Cranberry is much more suburban but still worth some due dilligence...you may find something that suits you.

CJ · #25 09/11/07, 02:36 PM

Very depressing

Yes, we originally thought it was the Cranberry in Venango (sp?) county, and I'd done some searching and though we could likely find something there.

There is no possibility of us making a trip to check out the area before accepting the job, the offer came yesterday and we have to give an answer tomorrow.

I'm curious. I read a press release about Westinghouse bringing in around 1000 new engineers for the new offices, averaging $70k a year salaries. Our offer is quite a bit higher than that, but we are iffy on that being enough to afford to live there. I wonder how those people are going to do it?

hisenthlay · #26 09/11/07, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJ

Very depressing

Yes, we originally thought it was the Cranberry in Venango (sp?) county, and I'd done some searching and though we could likely find something there.

There is no possibility of us making a trip to check out the area before accepting the job, the offer came yesterday and we have to give an answer tomorrow.

I'm curious. I read a press release about Westinghouse bringing in around 1000 new engineers for the new offices, averaging $70k a year salaries. Our offer is quite a bit higher than that, but we are iffy on that being enough to afford to live there. I wonder how those people are going to do it?

On $70k/year, plus a likely second income, you can get a mortgage big enough for a perfectly middle class home in the city or suburbia in a fine neighborhood. It really is an affordable area, compared to other sizeable cities. But looking for *land* specifically is the hard part--there's less and less of that to be found, and it sells at a premium.

CJ · #27 09/11/07, 02:52 PM

LOL oh I know we could get a mortgage, even a huge one! But we've worked hard to be debt free, and are probably less than 2 years away from building a house with cash on our MO land.

Of course, we can't live there (which is why we sold our former farm to begin with) due to hubby's career choice.

Taking on a mortgage is what we didn't want to do. We can get a mortgage for up to $450k. There's no WAY! I guess we're cheap, or been in the Ozarks too long, but we just can't wrap our heads around paying more than $3k an acre for land, or paying $200k for a house that's only worth $75k.

Yes I know, get over it

We Ozarkians are spoiled rotten. But it's awfully hard to move from the cheapest place on planet to a much more expensive one.

The worse thing ya'll are telling me is the traffic and congestion. I need my space, peace and quiet. Surely there's a little wooded patch within an hour's commute of Cranberry Township left for us?

hisenthlay · #28 09/11/07, 03:22 PM

I know, but you asked how "those people" were going to do it!

Most of them will probably get mortgages, and on $70k, without other significant debts and a little cash down, I think it would be fairly easy to get a loan to buy a $250k++ house.

For fun, I looked at houses on realtor.com under $250k in the Cranberry area, and came up with a few attractive prospects for the average homebuying engineer, IF they didn't want land:
http://homes.realtor.com/search/list...cnt=175#Detail

http://homes.realtor.com/search/list...cnt=175#Detail

http://homes.realtor.com/search/list...cnt=175#Detail

http://homes.realtor.com/search/list...cnt=175#Detail

So, see? Just become a suburbanite, and you'll do fine!

CJ · #29 09/11/07, 03:27 PM

LOL can't do it! I'd rather stay in the RV than buy a house in the burbs.

Besides, we've a brand new JD 48hp utility tractor we just bought, with a ton of implements, that needs some land to work on!

Can't you just see it sitting in a front yard in town?

hisenthlay · #30 09/11/07, 03:29 PM

Yup, all the neighborhood riding mowers would tuck their tails and run!

CJ · #31 09/12/07, 05:17 AM

I really appreciate everyone's input into the area. Hubby wasn't able to negotiate a better salary than what they offered, and so this morning is going to call them back and decline the offer.

It's exactly half of what he makes contracting, we just can't wrap our heads around any benefit to accepting the offer.

pumpkinlady · #32 09/12/07, 06:43 AM

If you change your mind consider our area that chas mentioned. Slippery Rock Township has not raised taxes in over 40 years. Still rural within 20 minutes of Cranberry. Land is going up in prices but can be found. Rentals too. Give a holler and I can help you find something. I am sure Chas would too.

CJ · #33 09/12/07, 10:48 AM

Thank you very much, I really appreciate the way everyone on here always jumps in to help.

We decided it wasn't worth giving up our dreams and financial independence that we currently enjoy. We'll just continue to improve our MO land (or buy more) and tools for the homestead for our retirement, so that we don't have to worry about it when we get to that point.

This way we can continue keeping our eyes peeled for good land bargains (wherever) and have the cash on hand to buy them if the right piece comes along. Life in a box isn't so bad....

BillHoo · #34 09/12/07, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJ

...There's no WAY! I guess we're cheap, or been in the Ozarks too long, but we just can't wrap our heads around paying more than $3k an acre for land, or paying $200k for a house that's only worth $75k....

The closer you get to high salaries, the higher you will expect to pay to live there. A 3BR 3Bath on a quarter acre is worth every penny of it's $1.5 million price tag in DC, because of the six figure salary that goes with it.

That house is a bank account for the person who owns it. When they get tired of making that big money, they will sell and buy a 100 acre ranch out where it's cheap and live off the spare change from the sale.

BillHoo · #35 09/12/07, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJ

I really appreciate everyone's input into the area. Hubby wasn't able to negotiate a better salary than what they offered, and so this morning is going to call them back and decline the offer.

It's exactly half of what he makes contracting, we just can't wrap our heads around any benefit to accepting the offer.

The money is where the people are. Sure, they might start him off low at $75K, but if he's good at what he does and can work with people, he can climb the corporate ranks and eventually manage a bunch of his peers and make triple the salary.

The caveat is that he'll be racing against all the other rats for that spot and it's not guaranteed he'll make it.

CJ · #36 09/12/07, 03:13 PM

It really wasn't about the salary, even though they only offered half of what he currently makes contracting. It was about finding a small farm in a range we felt comfortable spending, which obviously can't be had there... and about sacrificing a quiet life for bumper to bumper traffic, ugh.

That's why I wanted opinions of the area, and prices. We aren't willing to buy into the "American Dream". While we would love to be able to live fulltime on our remote land, we don't mind life in our box too much either. It's easy enough to take it home when we want, and not having any debt is priceless.

I might spend a million dollars for acreage... (not that we have a million dollars, LOL) but I'd never spend it on a house in the burbs. I'd rather have 100 acres and a one room shack.

teresab · #37 09/12/07, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJ

I'd rather have 100 acres and a one room shack.

Amen, sister!! That's exactly how I feel.

Michael W. Smith · #38 09/12/07, 03:59 PM

CJ, I believe you and husband made a wise decision. Cutting your salary in half and then having to deal with "the city" and sprawl doesn't seem worth it to me!

But as my motto says "Everything happens for a reason!"

CJ · #39 09/12/07, 05:32 PM

We think so, thanks!

We were 90% sure we'd take it... then over dinner the night before we both looked at each other and said, "that's nuts"!

Again, I appreciate all the input. I think we might have made a serious mistake if you all hadn't offered your take on the area.

Michael W. Smith · #40 09/13/07, 01:35 AM

And in our local paper tonight (not that your could commute from Brookville to Cranberry everyday) - 70 Acre farm for sale with 2 houses, 2 barns, 2 ponds, a workshop, and a corn crib for the price of $339,000.00.

And recently on my ride to work, a sign went up for someone wanting to sell some estate land with a little over 100 acres - pure raw land for $3000.00 / acre.

I prefer the deal I got on 12 acres of woodland adjoining our land. A couple I knew owned 12 acres of land that adjoined ours that they had inherited. I let them know that if they were ever interested in selling it, I would appreciate getting to make an offer first. After about 2 years, they contacted me and said they would sell it to me for $1000.00 an acre. (That was about 8 years ago, and I never even had to think on it!) "SOLD!"