What's going on with the price of horses?

We do have slaughter facilities but not in the sense that Pouncer means - mass production designed to take horses. The plant here *will* take a horse (or they used to) but it was more of a service to the occasional owner, according to the foreman when I toured the place a few years ago.

Hay/feed prices are a big contributor to why we're seeing horse prices drop, as well as irresponsible breeding as already mentioned. The funny thing is, I see A LOT of people up here that make a lot less money somehow find a way to feed their beloved horses with $300/ton-$500/ton hay while I see several down south whine and moan they don't HAVE ANY HAY because it has gone up from $60/ton to $100/ton even though they make more money at their day jobs. For the average horse owner, it's simply a choice - they don't WANT to spend that money but they also don't want to admit that so the BLAME the fact they need to sell on a "lack of hay". Obviously everyone has to watch their bottom line and sometimes a large increase in costs puts you over the top. There is NOTHING wrong with selling your horse because you don't want to fork over the extra dough for more expensive hay, but just say that's what's going on, don't shift the blame and make it sound like a huge crisis. The Fuglyhorse blog had a good post about this last week.

__________________
Heather Fair
Fair Skies Nigerian Dwarf dairy goats
All I Saw Farm
Wasilla, Alaska
http://HoofinItNorth.com
http://FairSkiesAlaska.com

http://network.bestfriends.org/anima...ews/12003.html

The Illinois butcher market has been opened, then closed and from what I can read is still open.

I do attend the Greenville and Springfield sales. Horses move out of there on semi trucks.

Hay is very high price. GOING much higher. Keeping horses as pets is like keeping an extra Hummer or two around "just for fun or to have". It isn't cheap.

Many folks that keep horses want easy to use wares like 50-65 pound bales of hay. This cost premium money. Think tripple in about 3 months.

350 for a meat class horse is a deal. About 2 years ago even a starving horse was going for 350. There are many more horses available for purchase right now. More wares lower prices. That is how it is supposed to work.

Try 80 a ton to 450 a ton last winter. That was in the Midwest. The folks at Thoughbreed Center in KY watched it go from 300 a ton to 4k a ton. They had no problem buying it. Race horses get the best.

The folks in Orlando COULD NOT PREY for cheap feed. 50-80 a ton went to 1k a ton and is right now at 300 a ton. They do not have a choice. Buy it or feed commercial feed. MANY are switching to commercial feeds as they are cheaper then hay.

Many folks hate to think of the pet horse getting cut into steaks. It dose happen. Most of the meat is shipped out of the country for human consumption. There is supposed to be a ban in the US for Chevel steaks. IT IS DANG GOOD EATTING. Nice and tender. No game tast. Lean as well.

Funny how we eat cows, chickens and pigs, yet eat a horse how bad is that.

Our paper said a while back, half our hay farmers went to growing the crazy corn for fuel. Then, Kentucky's drought at the end of spring/beginning of summer killed most of the corn crops. One fellow who I talked to said he'd lost 10K worth of corn seed.

Maybe, just maybe, those guys will go back to growing hay now. It's still reasonable down here, if you know people. I don't think it is right for people to buy up our hay, and then re-sell it for 5 times as much just to make money. You know "what goes around comes around". Honestly, most of our old time farmers here would not do that, because it ain't right. Farmers know each other, and know it's hard to just get by in good times.

But there are some who try to prey on hard times like this. Remember what Jesus did to the guys selling birds outside the Temple? They were doing the same thing. And folks around here remember names very well.

Even at $150 a ton, that is high for around here. We are getting rain now too, so we could have good cuttings still.

Comments like yours, I feel are inappropriate... they are just meant to hurt others, and seriously make me doubt your intentions for the care of horses, which includes proper breeding practices.

If anyone who is interested to learn more of what I'm talking about, just google the "Strasser" method. Strasser is a doctor in Germany.

I personally have a slower way, that gets the job done... just in a longer amount of time for the horse's comfort. Patience and Caring is the key... this natural method is not a quick fix, and it takes some serious anatomical study to do it!
I have actually been able to cure horses using this method, who were able to go on and lead normal lives. Horses who would have otherwise been put down and deemed undeserving of life by mosts standards.

Yes, there probably are some people out there... calling their methods "natural" and are harming the horse, rather than helping, because they view it as a way to just save money... and this can not be farther from the truth!
There are also farriers who will trim hooves without putting on shoes, and calling this a "natural" barefoot method. It is not the same at all!

It takes thorough research and experience to learn if something like this is good or not, and it takes money for proper tools, equipment, books, videos, ordering hooves for dissection, certification tests, and that trip to Germany isn't cheap.

Anyway... I do not feel the desire to post about this on the equine group, because I've already gotten a flavor of how I can be received.

I will also no longer post or read comments on this topic.

Anyone who knows me, knows that I am serious about animal husbandry practices, and knows that I am not a quack.

Cricket

Hiltrud Strasser is a quack and her followers have been jailed on occasion because of cruel practices. I, myself knew a Strasser practitioner and he was a liar (claimed a dead lame mare was sound on his website) and a quack.
I won't say that you, yourself are a quack...perhaps just very gullible.
http://www.azteca-horse.com/Strasser.htm

Here is a link with the opinion of Henry Heymering, CJF, RMF
President, Guild of Professional Farriers on the Strasser Method of trimming for barefoot horses.

"Conclusion:

After trying for several months to evaluate Dr. Strasser's method it is frustrating to not have enough evidence to be able to give a definitive answer. There are many testimonials of success from Strasser methods, but just as many testimonials of failure. I was able to see clear evidence of failures. I sought out but was unable to find clear evidence of successes. It should not be this difficult to come up with clear evidence of the method's benefits - if it has any. Unless and until repeatable evidence of the safety and benefits of the method (rather than just testimonials) is demonstrated by the proponents it seems that the parts of the method that differ from currently accepted practices are far too risky to recommend - particularly when done by anyone with less than 4 years of experience in the method."

From: http://www.hoofcare.com/news/conf_heymering.html

Pix

Strasser's is not the only barefoot trim.

A good balanced trim is the same whether barefoot or shod. The only difference is that the barefoot hoof wall is rolled while the hoof that is going to be shod is left with a flat wall.

clsmith15, there is nothing wrong with a barefoot horse, if that's what the situation warrants but there is something terribly wrong with someone suggesting they can cure navicular, founder or laminitis. Some treatments may provide comfort but none have been provent to cure the conditions.

.
A horse that is used in the wood for logging up and down hills has to have shoes with caulks to do the job right.

Horses used on paved roads have to have shoes and borium on them to do the job or they will fall down or wear the hoofs off.

Pulling horses have to have shoes with caulks or they can not get a grip and pull.

Horses on ice and snow need shoes to pull properly and have good foothing.

Racing horses need shows.

rodeo horses need shoes for traction.

Without shoes on there type horses they will have busted, and split, and broken hoofs.
And suffer injuries from falles.

Shoes are not natural for horses, but most horses are not used in a natural way either.

There are some approaches to trimming that are better than others. It's all a matter of the practitioner. There are some cases which have reversed rotation (proven by exray, etc) and those that are proficient work hand in hand with vets and specialists. But even the best will say that barefoot is not for every horse under all circumstances.

I have "gone to the dark side" myself but it works for my horse and he's very sound and traveling like he should be-on fairly rocky ground. But if I had to do a lot of serious road work, I would think about shoes, no matter the depth of collateral groove, health of the frog, and toe callous present. It's only prudent, after all That said, I think a lot of hoof problems could be fixed with just more frequent attention, period.

I wince every time I see a horse ambling around on a lot of flare with underrun heels...but that's just me.

I agree with Hoofinitnorth, some people just don't WANT to pay the price, or go to the effort of getting good forage. My answer to this is that the highway goes both ways, it's just a matter of dollars and your desire to maintain your horses' well being.

There was a news report about our poor hay crop this year. I had to laugh when I read the story online, it's actually the second year with a poor crop due to weather. I am already bringing up containers of hay from the Lower 48, and will continue to do so as long as the hay farmer can supply us with his premium hay. Is it expensive? YES! Is it double the cost of our best local squares? No. But I think the local farmers will be sold out in another couple of months, the yield was too poor.

I've seen coffin bone rotation reversed and horses that previously were in pain just standing become sound and able to be ridden again. If the trimmer knows what he/she is doing, it's not snake oil.

clsmith15, that's very interesting. Has the primary care vet forwarded the initial and final xrays to the nearest vet school or possibly cornell since they do a lot of research in the area of navicular, founder/laminitis. Without hard facts to back these types of claims, it does look like snake oil.

bumpus, our reputations are going to be permanently ruined because that's twice in a week that we agree

Thank you for stating this!

NOT ALL HORSES NEED SHOES REGARDLESS OF THEIR JOB, and NOT ALL HORSES CAN DO THEIR JOB WITHOUT SHOES.

Why anyone feels the need to profess they are better because they are "Barefoot" is beyond me. A balanced trim is a balanced trim and there should not be anything different about "preparing the hoof to shoe" vs. "preparing the hoof to reman barefoot" except for the aforementioned rolled barefoot hoof wall.

I can't tell you how many people locally and on the Net with whom I've conversed that SWEAR Barefoot = The One True Way, shoes = bad, farriers = bad, anyone that "trims to shoe" does it wrong (even if the shoes don't go on), and Trimming to Shoe is VASTLY different than Trimming to Remain Barefoot. *sigh*

In my book, if a horse can be sound without shoes, leave him barefoot. If a horse cannot be sound without shoes (or cannot remain sound without them), give him shoes.

I always wonder, too, why people that have an unsatisfactory experience with a professional farrier will RUN to the newest fad in "Barefooting". Why not just call another farrier that is a better match to you and your horse's needs? Why not involve a decent vet (especially if the horse is LAME)? Turning to fads or unproven, untrained hands often disappoints and sometimes harms the horse.

We have few VERY good farriers in this area but they are there. It is difficult to get an appointment with them at times, and it is even more difficult to get on their customer list if you are new to them. I think that this may be part of the reason so many people are turning to the alternative methods of trimming around here. (Sort of like people running to the latest "natural horsemanship showman" instead of a tried and true "trainer".) BUT, if your horse has special needs and you have a regular veterinarian, you have a MUCH better chance than just calling up cold. Sometimes all you need is to have your vet call a referral in (even if the horse is not lame) and the farrier will come (or suggest another farrier they trust to substitute).

I personally have seen NO MAGIC in the local "Barefooters". In my opinion, they could get AT LEAST similar results, if not faster and better results (which sometimes means more humane results because the horse is sounder faster) from using a decent, TRAINED, EXPERIENCED, RELIABLE farrier who has had peer-reviewed mentoring, evaluative testing, and continuing education. To be effective, farrier service MUST be performed on a REGULAR and TIMELY basis. This means it is done WHEN THE HORSE NEEDS IT - NOT when it is convenient for the owner or the farrier or the handler, etc. etc., etc. Also, the horse MUST be EXERCISED REGULARLY (either through guided work OR turn-out in a large area with some naturally abrasive materials present). The owner/caretaker MUST practice GOOD HUSBANDRY (clean stalls, clean hooves, good feed, etc.). Do these things and the AVERAGE healthy horse won't need anything special.

On the flip side, from my experience, horses with injuries or conformational defects often REQUIRE cooperation between qualified veterinarians and farriers. These horses are rarely better off with someone that claims Barefoot Is Always Better (especially when they advocate for continued use of boots in lieu of shoes - think about it - if the horse is sound(er) with boots on and he must wear the boots this day and that hour, is he really sound? Would he be more sound with shoes or a different trim? Yes, there is such a thing as building a sole callous but often that is the excuse used for all minor lamenesses in these cases.).

I also find some people are fooled into believing unreasonable repair times for their horses. Sometimes recovery takes longer than expected, sometimes it shouldn't take so long! Yes, it does take time to *totally* "fix" an unbalanced hoof and a hoof does take time to grow but A TRIM IS EITHER BALANCED OR IT IS NOT and what I am seeing are repeatedly unbalanced trims (or rasping instead of a real trim) being called "slow progress". In a normal horse with mild but common conformational challenges, kept in appropriate conditions, it should not take a year to balance the feet! This is sometimes where people diverge on "drastic trims" vs. "minimal rasping". I find it odd that the same people who appear to be unwilling, unable, or unskilled to use nippers think they are doing less harm by only using a rasp! Unbalanced is unbalanced and even a rasp can seriously unbalance a hoof and cause or worsen or prolong lameness! I also find it odd that those people that say slow, minimal change is good follow those that regularly tout success with drastic trims! Neither minimal nor drastic is "wrong", I just find it odd that there is such a difference in the demonstrations from the same schools!

As for Strasser, the methods are often considered inhumane because they involve REFUSING to shoe a lame horse that would otherwise be sound (or more sound) with the addition of shoes. In other words, they prefer to leave a horse unnecessarily LAME and in PAIN than to apply shoes. What Strasserites forget, is that shoes have a purpose and when applied appropriately and AS NEEDED, have done their job finely for many decades (centuries?). Other issues I've heard about Strasser mostly involve allegations of inconsistent, minmal, or even non-existent training, evaluation, mentoring, testing, etc. and that one can be "kicked out of the Strasser club" for not following ONLY their methods. Some folks see Strasser as an expensive, exclusive fad club/money maker rather than a true school of farriery, similar to the popular thoughts on Parelli as a trainer vs. showman.

Where it seems intelligent people diverge on hoof care is when an animal will likely suffer greatly from continued care - one person thinks it is temporary and fixable (or hopes so) and delays or even refuses to commit euthanasia, while the other things it is hopeless and cruel to continue with the horse in pain and thus resorts to euthanasia sooner than the first person. This has always been a trade-off with treating injuries in all animals and people. How much is too much and how much is tolerable, as well as how much is temporary healing vs. permanent suffering?

XCricketX, I have real concerns for people that seem to ignore genetics and conformation when it comes to hoof balance!!! BAD CONFORMATION SHOULD NOT BE BRED (although some minor conformation issues can be selectively bred out). One just has to wonder, though, in this day of dollar horses, who spends the time and effort breeding conformationally unsound horses? It is neither cost-effective nor humane in most instances!

Does this affect the prices of horses today? YOU BETCHA! Insufficient or ineffective or irresponsible trimming can RUIN a horse and seriously devalue him. Likewise, the lack of locally available qualified practicians can devalue horses because it costs more to travel to provide the necessary care for the animals. Find an area where food, care, or other needs are difficult to meet and you will find "depressed" prices - prices that are below what they would be if these services were otherwise regularly obtainable to the average buyer.

__________________
Heather Fair
Fair Skies Nigerian Dwarf dairy goats
All I Saw Farm
Wasilla, Alaska
http://HoofinItNorth.com
http://FairSkiesAlaska.com

x-rays are x-rays whether they are forwarded to a vet school or not. If you have eyes that can see and understand the anatomy, you can read them. No need to send them off to the vet school. I'm sure they are busy enough

So just anyone can be a radiologist? Who knew?

No credible source agrees with the claim that you can reverse rotation of the coffin bone or un-do changes to the navicular bone. I have a navicular horse and I've talked to my vet , a lameness specialist who by the way is not averse to herbal or natural remedies) about the idea that you can "fix" navicular thru one of the barefoot cults. She, like most others laughs.

Oh, good grief you don't need to be a radiologist to see obvious coffin bone rotation. It's a shame that your vet laughs at a viable resolution for your horse's lameness issue yet is considered a lameness specialist. I wouldn't be proud of it.

clsmith15, my point would be that if you have a series of xrays showing the regression of the coffin bone, any vet college or research facility would be very interested in your findings and would very likely be pleased to work with you on your findings.

Pouncer..I was very interested in your posts in hopes of being informed about regions where hay/feed prices are forcing the local horse herd to be sold cheap in a desperate market. The information in your post was largely rendered usless because you seem to fear giving even a hint of where you are located...Glen

__________________
The more a man travels, acquires wisdom and learns about life, the more likely he is to marry a Country Girl.

www.purefood.org/madcow/horse42501.cfm