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"Farmers" vs Homesteaders
How many of you are farmers (growing something on your property and then selling it to someone else via farmer's market or wholesale markets) vs hobby farmers or homesteaders?
I'm just trying to get a feel for what this forum is like... -Simon Huntley Small Farm Central |
Welcome to HT,
We dont sell but we raise almost everything we eat. bassketcher |
Simon - nice looking site you have up, and I see that your forum is new...
The colors look nice, and the recipes are right in season. You may want to put a link to your web making business in the barter board under members' websites. I don't have land, but do enjoy hanging out here. By the way, are you a farmer or homesteader taking care of your family with garden and such. Tell us about you some, you can scan the forums and see who we are. Angie |
This forum is a mix of city dwellers that want to escape the rat race, (I wager $10.00 on rat number 3 for the trifecta), round 7, and a combination of hard core row hoers - whom have been on the family held property since 1700's. Everything is here. There are serious farmers here, there are wannabes, there are dreamers, doers, did doers. wanna doers.
Ask a serious question about your pigs purple ear spots, it will be answered by some one with experience with the same condition. The cause and the cure will be discussed. Ask about farm tax exemptions, an experienced person will answer. Chickens in the city law will be discussed in full. Wanna milk a goat? Instructions will be issued. Looking for tractor repair advice, the people here are real. We are a close knit family of over 17,000, the last time I looked, may be more now. What about that herd dog? Will it also need the same shots as the livestock gets? Ask and you shall recieve. Some of our members have massive acreage and employ a lot of people, others are stuck in office employment with balcony pot gardens, this is a very wide range group of participants. Put any subject into the search feature to gain examples of what goes on here. |
I retired from the US Navy, bought land and am in the process of building a farmhouse.
We garden, we raise goats, chickens and pigs. I am a vendor at a Farmer's Market. I have 42 acres of riverfront forest in Maine, and manage 105 acres of woodlot. |
I've got seven acres I get to at the weekends. My best friends are a sharp, heavy spade a chainsaw and my wife though not necessarily in that order, well, actually ... no, no, not in that order.
I don't sell anything from it but if you are interested in five or six acres of chopped, hacked, sawn, ripped out and pulled up brush, bramble, wild tree, dead tree and vine I could hook you up. |
I am not either. Farming, I find to be an impossible compromise (because of how things must be grown in order to compete with those who will use any technigue available to grow, just saw a commercial on TV for VT Roundup or some such stuff for corn, incredible) and we here are only beginning to learn how we here can be self-sustaining with our costs in the meantime paid my by weekly job as a selfemployed consultant of sorts.
To me, homesteading is kind of like retiring from or escaping from the 'market economy', hopefully at an early age. |
I grew up on a wheat farm. As a kid we also raised our own beef, pork, and chickens. We also had a huge garden, and fruit trees. We were just about as self sufficient as they come.
I consider myself a homesteader cause I raise food for the family. My place doesn't make money, but it saves a lot. I've been considering putting in a market garden and start doing farmers markets, but so far I haven't had the time or energy to do that. Maybe next year. I've also considered putting in a butcher shop here on the place. I could butcher my own meat and do custom butchering for others. There used to be a butcher shop here, so in a way it would be like taking the place back to what it once was many years ago. |
I raise sheep to sell on part of the farm and lease out the rest of it. I also rais eMaremma Sheepdogs, and hope to soon have some pigeons. (If I can just get the coop finished)
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A full time farmer for the last 37 years, after 6 yrs college and 3 yrs Uncle Sams finest inthe 6o's. Raised cattle, sheep, grain, and 2 sons . Now I'm retiring from farming full time and doing the farmers market thing to keep busy. Wife is a RN and helped support the farm, and now helps with the veggies for market. edit: By the way,,,why is it "farmers" vs homesteaders?
sometimes the two are indistinguishable. :hobbyhors |
Um... It's a spectrum rather than a division.
Pure farmer might be just raising and selling but not for yourself at all - buy your food at the store. Pure homesteader might be just doing things for yourself - buy little to no food at the store. We have long been homesteaders. We raise most of our own food both veggie and meat, harvest our own heat (wood) and do other stuff for ourselves from our land. We also: harvest timber from our land which we sell. harvest maple sap which we make into maple syrup which we sell. raise pigs which we sell as piglets, half pigs, whole pigs and such. Most people probably fall somewhere along the spectrum and may shift time to time. Cheers -Walter Sugar Mountain Farm in the mountains of Vermont http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/ http://HollyGraphicArt.com/ http://NoNAIS.org |
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SPEW!!!!! directly at my poor laptop! Darn good elderberry wine that was too! (my mom's private bottling...only 4 bottles left....the bushes are back in NY...and she's in AZ, and I'M in AZ...don't think we can do elderberry here - but I may be mistaken...) I'm rat #3, I'm rat #3.....up the ante, up the ante! I'm gonna win! God willing and the creek don't rise! :hobbyhors |
MK, how fast are you? I will expect track records, notarized, ect. The standard. ect; you will Know if your in the business...
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Can you even put a question as to homesteader vs farmer? A lot of homesteaders we know, including us are back to the land, sort of back to basics kind of people. We raise chickens, turkeys, ducks and hope tp raise a pig and goats next spring. We heat and cook with wood and have a wind generator for part of of power and for emergencies. We grow a lot of our food and buy also from local farmers. From what we have read and researched about homesteading I did not think that the two could be debated.
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I say I'm trying to be more of a homesteader...
we are working towards raising all our own meats and veggies for our own consumption.. altho, I do sell any extra to others... I sell over 100 doz eggs at my once a month farmers market (2nd sat of the month) and am raising 150 turkeys for a restaurant this thanksgiving. |
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How about Farmers or Homesteaders? Why one vs. the other? |
We raise all our own meats and vegies, we sell pigs of all sizes, as my kids say we sell pigs from piglet to pork chops, We cut all our own wood off our land heat only with wood,dont have alot of luxuries, I make all our own quilts and alot of my clothes, we dont have a dryer and i do use a wringer washer which was my mothers.So not sure if thats makes us farmers or homesteaders,, I consider my self both,
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We are not static in any of those catgories. We are trying to move upward into homesteader more and more each year. I try to grow or buy locally what we need..a little more each year. We have a farm store that we will open slowly but surely. We have a growing flock of chickens for eggs to sell, meat for the pot and entertainment and will maybe get a pig here soon...maybe..thinking about two. Goats this winter and we have hutches for rabbits. Gonna plant an orchard soon. Ya'll gotta gve me credit for dreaming.... but those of us who are striving look up to those who are further up the homesteader ladder than we...no vs. here much.
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I'm a full time farmer who doesn't make any compromises in naturally grown vegetables. We can support ourselves with farm income only. I raise most of my family's food. We provide our own wood heat by cutting trees from our 45 acres or by bartering and do a lot of other "homestead" things. I think it's easy to be both a farmer and a homesteader.
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We are both, I guess. We grow oats, wheat, corn, barley, and alfalfa. We also have pigs, chickens, beeves and milk cows. We are farmers in that we make our living farming. We are homesteaders in that we are mostly self sufficient and daily strive to rely on God rather than the government.
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Worked towards getting back to the country starting in 2001 and got a big city lot in a run down neighborhood to save save save and garden. Gardened there and it flooded almost every year. Made it in 2003 to 5 gorgeous acres in the country my gardens flooded every year. by the 3rd year I sold, moved back into the SAME rent house in the city for two months and then moved to NY to start again. Every year I become more self-sufficient. We have 23 acres here and a house a little down the way from there. At a minimum we want to grow our own food, from there, who knows where we'll go. I just want to be able to stay home and take care of as many needs as possible there either by growing or trading. I have a job working at home and am very fortunate. I hope to only have to work 3-4 more years just enough to pay for equipment to get us going and build a house on the 23 acres. Finally got away from the Gulf coast area and all that water!
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Our situation is a blend.
We once wanted to be "pure" homesteaders. We planned to be insulated from outside economic pressures. That has not proven to be feasible for a variety of reasons - taxes, our internet addictions, and our desire for comfort/beauty top the list. We also have a philosophical view that we've been blessed with the opportunity to steward this large and lovely parcel of land, so it would not be right to hoard the bounty for ourselves. (A "how big is your footprint on the planet?" ideology). Since some cash flow is necessary, we decided that income generated from home keeps us closer to our principles. Our goal is to spend as much of our time on our place as possible. Some cash comes from "farming" income, some are better described as home-based business enterprises. We account for both the homesteading and farming endeavors in a formal way - business plan, budgets and financial records. Our homesteading activities are tracked as "Retained Income". Whatever we achieve through self reliance - whether home grown, sweat equity, and even frugality, counts as "wealth". Everything we use that we would have purchased from outside sources, is accounted for at current market value. Doing this is a pain and there's no romance to it., but we have found it's important to know this information, at least in the early years. It helps us decide how to organize our time and how to prioritize our activities. (For those of you who have been here awhile, you may remember that one of our greatest stumbling points when we started out was figuring out "what should I be doing today?" This is how we resolved that issue.) Someday I hope there will come a time when the retained income part of finances are second nature to us, and I won't have to account for it so diligently. But for now, farming and homesteading are one. Sorry so long. |
As you can see, it is a blend, just like any community. Most subjects will generate helpful replies. However, you'll also find there are taboo subjects. When people have strong feelings for or against a topic, a newbe like yourself can expect to be sharply critized. In your opening post you nearly touched a nerve. Many on this forum are hobbists, calling themselves homesteaders. The definition of homesteading has been hotly debated on this site. I guess what that word means is different for each individual. I'd suggest you read thru a bunch of topics to get an idea of who is on this site. In the mean time, don't talk about NAIS, Avian Influenza or Monsanto. Feel free to post pictures of a woods violet or tomato or your new goat, but don't wade out to the important topics until you've got a better read on who the bullies are.
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Hey.
Farmers are homesteaders...trying to be self sufficient living off the land. RF |
We started out raising for ourself but it gradually grew into a business. Now, I work off the farm but DH is full time farmer/homesteader (or my hired hand as he likes to say). We raise cows (scottish highland), goats (boar), pigs (large black), chickens, and we have horses for fun. We seem to sell more breeding animals than meat but the price is better so I'm not complaining. We have two dairy heifers that we are raising to provide our dairy products in the future. We usually raise our own vegetables but this year was a bad year and didn't get to. I can, and freeze and we try to cook most of what we eat instead of buying processed food. We have draft horses and horse farm equipment but havent' got rid of the tractor yet. We love this life style but the reality is, if I had all the money I have sunk into land, equipment, animals and the animal upkeep, I could buy the biggest house in town and live in ease. But, we wouldn't be happy!
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So far we have only raised our garden. I came here to learn. I want to add some chickens to the mix next year. We only have 2 acres, but would love to be able to become as self-sufficient as we can on the land we have. We have well water and are looking into alternative energy sources for our other needs. So are we homesteaders? Not yet, at least as I view homesteading, but we're working towards our goals.
My DH retires in about 6 years and at that time we are planning on relocating to a larger place. Hopefully by that time I will have aquired the information I need to live off the grid and be totally self sufficient. |
I consider myself both this is why.
I consider a farmer someone who farms as a living to make money and sells crops for a living. homesteaders can also sell crops but its not their main income its not what they do for a living. I think most homesteaders as retired couples or people who want to move out to the country for a simpler life. Hobby farmers have more money usually and do it for fun. I consider myself a farmer as right now its my only source of income. And as a homesteader since I want a simpler life out in the country and able to be self supporting and more sustainable. |
Well I used to farm. I raised 5000 acres of soybean wheat rice pecans and milo. Then when I retired I wnet to work for the Forestry comision then I realy reired. I have 27 acres and gorw grass and woods. That is all that I am going to do.
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I can tell you the scientific name of the parasitic mite most likely to infest Angora fiber rabbits :nerd: but I couldn't grow a luffa gourd if my life depended on it. That's why I like HT...I can tap into the collective wisdom of almost 20,000 people. :D
I would consider my family "small farmers" rather than homesteaders because most of what we raise is to sell. (We raise heritage ducks, chickens, and purebred rabbits) We do grow a garden and raise a lot of our meat, but we're not self sufficient. |
A few months ago, when I first discovered Homesteadingtoday, I responded to many differernt topics. I have 30+ years experience as a carpenter, farrier, blacksmith, teamster, gardener and have raised most common farm animals. When I started out, I thought that I could go organic all the time. I have since changed that ideal to organic most of the time. I've seen people modify their principles when it meant the difference between eating their crop or letting the bugs eat it. When you have an off the farm income, its easier to let the bugs get your garden. Its also easier to pour more money into your garden than it is worth, with off farm income. I also believe that flea markets and livestock auctions and county fairs are the source of infections and diseases, not factory farms. Monsanto's Roundup Ready GM crops reduce the fuel needed to get a crop and is therefore a good thing. Many don't share that viewpoint.
I posted a few news articles about avian influenza in the Poultry section. One was an outbreak in China, then an outbreak in Laos and one in Vietnam. The moderator on the Poultry believes avain influenza isn't a concern and if it becomes a problem it is Factory Farms that spread it. Those news articles discussed the fact that it is being spread by small back yard free range flocks and at small village markets. Due to the differing of viewpoints, I cannot post on the Poultry section. Heck, I can't even view that section. That is how this site works. Read thru the NAIS thread. I've been attacked many times because I pose a differeing viewpoint. When a woman was complaining about her farrier not showing up or being late, I gave the farrier's viewpoint and was soundly critized. There are some on this site that have posted thousands and thousands of posts. They see this site as their property. Any comments that run contrary to their views are sharply critized. Often people are critized simply for being new. I'm not afraid to go toe to toe on just about any subject, however I find that it is a waste of my time to debate topics that are emotional triggers. I think that a homesteader is someone that raises all their food on their own farm and sells enough to pay the taxes and buy the things that can't be grown. Very hard to do. I think farmers are people that raise products for sale and gain an income that pays the farm expences and gives them an income. That's getting harder to do. A hobby farm is a rural place that raises crops, livestock or orchard that provides for the family, but depends on someone working off the farm to provide income and or health insurance. Many people that think of themselves as farmers, but depend on "in-town" wages are simply hobby farms. No one wants to think that all that work on the "farm" is just a hobby. Many people that have extensive gardens and raise a few animals prefer to adopt the title "homesteader", when the off farm income provides the seeds and fertilizer and feeder pigs needed to maintain this illusion. I think it is this romance with the past that also fuels the anti-modern sentiment that is so common here. This can be a fun site. You can make some friends here. However, you should understand that there are some topics that quickly become nasty, so beware. I wasn't trying to bully. I was trying to be helpful. You can discuss what you want. But if you disreguard my advice and you get yelled at or banned, please email me and admit that I was right. |
deleted so as not to hijack the thread
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Sorta both....We do farm most of our land however farming isn't our profession. We homestead or should I say started homesteading as way to be self sufficient and would love to someday be able to live totally off our land.
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Haypoint--- you are SO right !!
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where I am at
Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to this thread!
Someone asked where I am at in the farmer vs. homesteader area: I grew up on a hilly small farm in southwestern PA, but I have to admit that I hated it. I didn't like driving 30 minutes to get to a grocery store or the woods or the bright stars. Only after a few years in college did I come around to the idea of growing food and living in the country - sometimes you have to just get away for a bit to find some direction. Later, I worked and managed a CSA farm in western Colorado. When I got there in the Spring of 2005 there was no CSA or vegetable production and by the time I left at the end of 2006, we had a 130-member CSA farm grossing about $20,000/acre. We actually made a profit at the end of the second year. That was a wonderful transformation. Now I am running a service called http://www.smallfarmcentral.com/cont...farm-central-0 which provides websites at low-cost to small farms. I would like to someday combine my skills in web development with a farming lifestyle. I think this a perfect fit for the future. Anyway, loved hearing how everyone got where they are. Keep 'em coming. -Simon Huntley Lead Developer, Small Farm Central http://www.smallfarmcentral.com |
Haypoint - excellent post, and I have to say you're dead on with your observations.
We are sliding along the spectrum. Two years ago we lived in Atlanta; we had always lived in towns or cities and though we'd gardened a little we'd never raised animals other than pets. We currently work full time outside jobs to fund getting this place up and running. We intend to move toward self sufficiency first, then eventually sell enough excess to keep the place running (taxes, equipment, repairs, feed) without having to rely on outside employment. Not sure if we will make it that far along the spectrum or not. Time will tell. Now we have a large garden that provides maybe 75% of our veggie needs. We're working toward more self sufficiency with bee hives, fruit trees, etc. We raise chickens and rabbits, thus far only for our own consumption. Had one egg customer this summer, and just today I placed an ad to sell some excess rabbits so our excess is beginning to offset our costs just a tiny bit. |
I'm a hobby farmer at least for the moment. If i can find a processor for my poultry, I'll be a farmer. :) I grew up living on 760 acres, we raised horses an cattle. We now live on 4.50 acres, we raise enough food for 4 grown childern and thier family. We have ducks, chickens, beef and a garden. Now if I didn't have my family, I might be able to sell something. :) No I'll keep the kids.
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You decide what I am, hmmmmm
Ive got 2 running tractors here, 3 plows, 2 discs, a 4 section rotery hoe, 2 planters, 1 drill, 2 cultivators, 1 sprayer, 1 picker, 1 combine 1 grain elevator, 2 wagons, a grader, 3 rakes, 4 mowers, 2 buzz saws, a flat bed trailer, a stock trailer, a manure spreader, a fertilizer applicater, a roller packer, a spring tooth harrow, and thats about it, BUT I only put in 8 acres corn, 4 acres oats, and 14 acres hay, and I didnt have any of that this year. Too much rain in Okla
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