Girl Orders Rebar. Adventure Follows.

Once the order was made and the Price was agreed upon,
"The Deal was Set!"

It was Wrong to go back on the Deal, once it was set,
even if you had been offered a cheaper Price.

Like they said........"Your Word is Your Bond".
It sounds like good words to live by.

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Be Intense, always. But always take the time to
Smell the Roses, give a Hug, Really Listen, or
Jump to Defend your Friends & What you Believe in.
'Til later, Have Fun,
Old John

Yep. I think this little stunt my end up costing her more in the long run than she saved.

I'm sure supplier #1 knows many of the other suppliers in the area. What do you think is going to happen if he tells of this to other area suppliers? Think they'll work to get your business just to have the orders canceled.

I know a guy that was trying to break into contracting. After canceling orders from a couple of places he is now required to order in person and must make a nonrefundable deposit at time of order. And this is at places that he didn't cancel on. They make him pay fully in advance. I don't expect him to be in bussiness much longer.

I agree 100%.

Clove

This all could easily have been avoided by only one of the people doing the shopping (wife or husband).

R

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When faced with issues in life, where do you look for the problem; out the window, or in the mirror?

Just wanted to weigh in a little. I feel if you are dealing with an induvidual person, than yes "word is bond". But I have to say my veiws change when dealing with a company or business. I feel any time I'm about to hand money over I must make sure they know until I show up with cash the deal is subject to change. I also offer the chance to offer me the best price. The best price better be the first price that is offered. If they go and offer to sell the item at a lower price later, than they were lying to begin with and their word is useless.

Business are in business to make money and consumers should try to hold every penny from them as possible. I think you did the right thing.

I will also add that with certain items I don't price shop because certian stores have proven to me they are not trying to screw me and have offered advice that is worth more than money.

I'm reading all these responses, and recalling RULE #1 of business:

Money talks and BS walks.

In other words, until I have someone's money in my hand, I know darned good and well they can go elsewhere for any reason and there's nothing I can do about it. I have rose-colored glasses, too, and I like to THINK people will act according to some highminded Code of Honor, but my EXPERIENCE and the rules of laissez faire economics show me differently.

I have gone through all the motions of packing stuff in my parts biz many times before because the check was coming in the mail. Never came. I once owned a store, and a woman wanted a new sofa and talked to me about it. She came back when my employee was there, and I was not, and told the employee I had agreed to sell it to her for a price that was a loser for me. The employee took the woman's "small-town, we're all honest" word for it, she paid cash -- and I was out the money and the couch. I can go on and on. Yeah, it irritates. But that's part of life.

I have, on the other hand, also backed out of "deals" if I found a substantially better price. I will hang with someone if the prices are reasonably in the ballpark, but if I'm going to save a real chunk of change, I will go elsewhere. That's business, folks. Basic economics: "The price of anything is the amount that a willing buyer will give a willing seller at a point in time." If someone finds a better deal, they are no longer a willing buyer. End of story. And all the high-minded hoopla about back in the day when it was all done on a handshake is just that -- hoopla. There never was such a day, and any student of American business practices from the colonists on up should easily be able to discern that. There is and has always been a perceived benefit to a sale on both sides of it, or it would not occur. If that benefit is diminished on either side, the transaction is in jeopardy.

Bottom line: The materials never left the store. No money changed hands; not even a deposit. Therefore there was no "deal," and there can be no restocking fee charged for simply moving materials around within the business.

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Jim Steele
Sweetpea Farms
"To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing." -- Robert Gates

I really agree with this. We have been building our house for several years now. I plan the project for the coming weekend on Monday, I get all my bids in by Tuesday ( actually it's just me calling all the stores ) and plan for delivery or pick-up and transport to site. We have bought everything from concrete, block, wood, rebar you name it..My word is important as I have dealt with some of the same businesses for several year and will for another couple of years. Once I have caused him to expend his time, effort or labor costs based on my saying yes..the deal is sealed. To break it at that point is wrong and I sure wouldn't do it for 90.00 Sorry if that seems mean to say, just the way I am...that's good business to me.

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Christanie Farm...living life as it was intended

you know, it works both ways. A while ago we were building a house. I spent 3/4 day chosing the lighting for the whole house. ( not a big house). I paid for it and said I would pick it up Thursday morning. The electricion was to be ther at 11:00. I went to pick it up, they had pulled NONE of it. And some that I had bought they were sold out of. I ended up paying the electriction to sit around while I hurried around trying to find replacements. I wish the THEIR word was their bond.
And guess what? There was nothing that I could do about it except never walk into their store again.

Out here in flyover country, a man's word is still his bond.

Go south on a deal, and your name is dirt. Trust me, you don't want to get on the dirt list... it's hard to get materials, except on a cash basis, it's hard to get jobs, except with other folks on the dirt list, and dealing with dirt, you have to have their cash up front before proceeding... otherwise they'll dirt you, as they have no reputation to lose.

I've swallowed costs before, just to deal with someone I trust. That trust has been payed back tenfold.

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Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

I almost agree...but for me the difference is in whether or not this is a stock item, or a custom item. If it's a stock item, until the item has been paid for and delivered (or carried out of the store) there is no deal to honor.

However, if stock needs to be cut to length, or any other custom work performed, there is a deal, even if there was no deposit required and it was worth of mouth.

If there is no labor involved, then loading it on a truck two days before delivery, is foolish...as I said before, I don't know businesses who can afford to tie up a truck that long. If this was not a standard length order, and the business had to cut it to length to meet her requirements, then they should have asked for a deposit, or at least mentioned to her that the work had already been performed, when she requested to cancel the order. The fact that they did not tell her that, tells me that is was the common stocked length and it was not custom.

I have been asked to do jobs for people, they called me said they wanted me in 2 weeks to fix this or that, and they will call when ready for me to show up, I say OK and ask what I need to get, I round up the materials and I get the tools I need sorted out of storage and wait for there second call as they said they would call when they were ready, and no second call, later I find out they hired some one else for the job. was it a nice thing to do NO! but what recourse do I have, nothing was signed nothing other than a unrecorded statement, there were times I returned the materials, and there was times I jsut keep them, to use my self or on other projects.

You note down to your self for futer jobs form that person, don't worry about the job until your on it and are working on it, if it cost them more or have to wait for materials to be ordered or other, that is there problem not mine, I will not put my self into a position twice to get took if I can help it. and those who do try to take advantage of me or my services, usually get put on the back burner as far as urgency goes, or on my black list of people I will work for. (some are not worth the aggravation, life is to short for dealing with some people).
I normally do not take offence if it is a potently miss understanding, but if you screw me twice, I probably will not work for you again.

So some times money is not all that is involved,

I am not saying what you did was right or wrong, but in small communities keeping your word, even if it cost you some financial loss, may pay big dividends in the long run,

Example: I went to town today talked to the feed store manager, I have always been straight with him, and his crew, and the mother business as well,
talked to him for a few Min's, and told him I wanted some posts for building a cloths line for the wife, he said meet in the yard, and at the yard he said do you want square or round (said it did not make any different,) take me over to the square post pile, and he said some are not the best, so I will knock off $4 a peace if you want these, (one had a small corner off one bottom end), will never been seen in the dirt,

he did me a nice favor, and in the process gave me a suggestion of saving me $60 more dollars on another project, and so he saved me $68, that he could have easily put in the stores kitty, but since I have treated him well in buying his wares, he treats me with discounts and tips to save me as well. (He has developed a loyal customer, and friend, and I have a business I can count on and trust as well). yes there are products I can get cheaper else were, but is it worth it not always.

From some one who has seen it from both sides of the fence, jsut my 2 cents.

I would never buy materials or tools for a future project for someone else, without a contract or them paying money to do so...I'm sorry, but to me that is foolish.

I asked my chimney cleaner if he could service my pellet stove. He said he doesn't know how, but could learn. I told him "don't worry, I'll find someone who can". I would never expect him to spend money on something when I have no idea when I might ask him to perform that work...or if I will even have the same pellet stove by the time he gets his education. If he chooses to get that education so he can cater to people like me in the future, then good for him...it might bring him more business. But in no way should I be held accountable for him spending money on an expectation of a possible future job for me.

If someone asks you to buy materials for them, for a future job, then you should have a contract for the materials and labor. They may back out on the uncompleted labor, but they still owe you for the materials.

Don't worry about it, business is business and what you were doing was business. Pulling the stock and having to put it back, well, that's called the "cost of doing business"!!! TO BAD, he should have given you a better deal to begin with!!!

Wow.

Thanks for all the posts, I had no idea this could be such a hot topic.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm brand new at all this stuff, having been a city person for most of my adult life, and a renter at that. And to be fair, I am doing business in a major city. I know I'm going to screw up a lot, but I got a real education here in the last two days! So thank you.

As for whether it was cut for me or not, I bet the guy would have told me so. The stuff that was delivered to me today was uncut, but that's not to say that the other place didn't cut it special. I had never thought of that, because they made it sound like that's how it came, in 20' lengths. Again, I'm a total newb.

The stuff that was delivered today was in great shape, I was told (by my carpenter FIL) that it was good quality, and we got all the rebar for the footings tied down and the vertical dowelling cut. The shipping that was arranged was prompt, and cheaper, and they driver was a great help unloading it at the site.

And as for only one of us doing the ordering, DH or DW, but not both, GREAT advice. Unfortunately for us it's me that's running the show, as DH is working more than full time at the moment. (did I mention there will be screw-ups?)

Thanks again for all the feedback. You made me look hard at my moral compass. I gave it a couple of taps, and it seems to be working fine. For the moment.

And for the record, I don't even live in a McShack.

I'm going to bed. Would you believe that this McGirlie carried every bit of that 1800 lbs of rebar seventy feet to the garage today? She's a little McSore.

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Similar experience except mine involved concrete delivery. Called a place that I've dealt with before, at least a week PRIOR to when it would need to be delivered and stated that the TIME FRAME for delivery was critical to getting the job. No problem they stated. STRESSED the need to be there at such and such a time.....not later, not earlier......but exactly XX o'clock on this date......because I had a pumper truck that would be on site to transfer the concrete to the pour area and that they charged !@#!~#$285.00/hr., whether they were waiting or pumping. Again was told: No Problem......we'll be there. Called the morning of the pour and asked to talk to the manager and was assured that their driver would be there on time. Hung up.......and waited and waited......pumper truck arrives......no concrete in sight.......more waiting.....talked to pumper driver and he casually mentioned that as he was on his way to my place, he'd passed the other companies concrete truck heading back to the mixing plant......Now this concrete place is approximately 25 miles from me.....there was NO WAY that they would get out to my place for at least another 45 minutes, based on where the pumper driver had spotted the other truck. I got back on the phone and called to find out what the problem was......suddenly, they didn't seem to remember actually giving me a promise of being there at such and such a time......but, only "We told you that we'd get there, when we get there!" An hour and a half later, he finally shows up and the pouring commenced. Needless to say, when we finished, I called the owner up and complained and asked who was going to pay for the extra $427.50 for the waiting around of the pumper, when I'd been "PROMISED" that they would have their concrete delivered at the specified time. The best that he could come up with was a reduction on my bill of only $75.00!
I told him that he lost FAR MORE than I did on that deal.......that I would be having many more concrete jobs in the future to do and that I had friends who would also be needing recommendations on who to buy concrete from ........and that he would no longer get ANY business from me EVER again; despite the fact that they undercut the competition consistently by several dollars a yard. And I've kept that promise. Burn me once.....shame on you.....but NEVER again.

You did have a legal contract in the vast majority of places on Earth. Contract law IMO is the most widely understood legal concept around.

They made an offer. You accepted.

You are both competent.
a) mentally capable
b) reasonably sober

Consideration is met.

Both parties agree to fulfill their obligations.

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For reason of price you breached your obligation under the agreed upon terms.

Obviously this isn’t a huge deal, but you did bring it up as someone else causing you harm when the opposite is the fact. If he wants your future business he may have acted differently, but he has no ethical or legal obligation to do so.

Having owned a steel distribution company your business would not be one that my sales people would cherish. My people would have been nicer but I can certainly understand both views. We rarely sold at the lowest price. We always felt we gave the best value. People who do re-bar work are pretty valuable generally. That may be one reason the Wal-Mart does not sell it.

In many fields of business you would be out of business for your actions, but to be honest you obviously aren’t going into diamond trading, but knowing the ethics that diamond traders use between themselves will never do you harm. Absolutely impeccable. It makes the old farm standards seem poor. And they are not.

If I were someone giving you advice I might suggest you taking a nice goodie over to the person who you ticked off and give a small apology. I think he may be a real person who likes to do business with people on a handshake and gets grouchy when things go wrong. IMHO that is the kind of person people would be better off dealing with.

Thank you for your post! My dear friend who was a diamond trader died a few years back and now my moral tiller is in my own hands. I actually always had control but David was a great mentor and his hand in guidance was always welcome. He convinced me to not become a Lawyer and become an ethical citizen of a productive society.

farminghandyman...

I've done the same thing... had people tell me they need such and such done on a certain date... so I go to town, and pick up a couple hundred in parts, and wait and wait... then I finally just go to their place (after already surveyed the project once, to see how big a job it's going to be) after they say they'll be there at a certain time. And nobodys home. Arrgghhh... Call that evening, and reset the time... and no one's home. Sayonara... One time I showed up on time, and the kids said mom and dad were in bed working on another lil brother... Sayonara!!!

They go on my dirt list. Will be a cold day in August 'fore I help certain people again. Their word is dirt. Nope, associating dirt with their name, is disrespecting dirt.

I've gotten to personally know my local hardware store manager and employees. We've progressed beyond customer/employee. I actually sit there and chew the fat. A couple months ago the manager took me aside and told me the owner told him to straighten up the 'yard'. Got free cattle panels. Three pallets of potting soil. A trailer load of pvc ...at least several thousand dollars worth!!!!!, everytime I go in now, he has something for me... a couple weeks ago, the major things were cleaned off the yard, now it's little stuff... like coils of rope, rabbit cages, rolls of underground irrigation pipe. Monday I got 16 1x4x16's... Oh, and a trailerload of not quite perfect pressure treated lumber ... 18' lengths of 4x4 with a wave at the end...

Like I tell my girlfriend, it really pays being nice.

When I am overcharged on some little thing, I don't worry about it... seeing as I've probably got in excess of 2K of freebies this year alone.

On the other hand, if I'd made a thousand dollar order, and it was on their trailer for delivery, and cancelled....unless I came by and helped em unload it and stack it back on the racks again, my goodwill factor would suffer, and my seemingly never ending supply of slightly 'off' treasure would cease.

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Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

Gosh you can tell we are awfully close regionally..that part about getting to know the local people on mor than a customer/owner level...it is the exactly the same here...I would never dream of going back on a verbal agreement here..it would be so hard to find anyone to do anything if I did...OTOH..if you get to know the locals it is worth it in the long run...next time you need something quickly or something you cannot find..they will do whatever to help you find it.. nearly everything constructionwise here is done on a verbal/handshake type business..

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Christanie Farm...living life as it was intended

Trusting your supplier is paramount, as important as them trusting you.
My local supplier is consistently 15 to 20% higher than the bulk stores an hour away. The exception is he is within a couple miles, he pays more for delivery, he also delivers. The fact that he's just an honest family man trying to make it, earns him a good deal of my business.

Along with that trust comes benefits. Freebies, T-shirts, discounts on subsequent orders, and best of all: I get to run a hanging ticket-credit.

There's alot to be said for always having a place where there's a free cup of coffee, a warm friendly smile and an ear eager to hear my crazy BS.

I would send an apology loaf of zuccini bread, a 12 pack would go even further.

1800 lbs. You poor thing.