Converting Forest to Pasture

We have acreage of forest, we are trying to convert some of it to pasture and some to farmland.

We have a lot of buried logs, stone and huge ruts [left over from each time this land was logged].

Without further heavy equipment, leveling it is near impossible.

Digging out the buried logs is very difficult. I have un-earthed logs as long as 40 foot long before they turn down deep and disappear. They are very hard to remove.

I destroyed one new Sears 7hp Rototiller [rear-tine] by breaking the transmission. The warranty does not cover the transmission. I have bought their largest rear-tine rototiller now 7.5hp, but I am hesitant to use it.

I snap the pins about every four to five feet.

I was recently told [by our local organic inspectors] that converting forest land over to productive farm land generally takes three generations.

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Watched a show this last weekend called America's Heartland and they had a segment about harvesting hardwood trees. Depending on the size some of them were going for up to $2000. each. They showed a couple of guys going around the property and cutting all the lower branches off the smaller trees so they will grow taller and straighter. Said they would be ready for the next harvest in about 20 years.

I thought this to be very interesting. Most of the time around here when someone buys up a plott of forest they have it all bulldozed off and don't recieve a darn dime for any trees. Then they spend a life time trying to make cattle and hay farming pay for itself.

Sounds to me like theres more money in harvesting trees!

ET1 - now I understand a previous comment you made about taking 60 years to make farm land.....

In many areas forest land is very thin, Not much organic matter. Acidic. And low in nutrients. The trees recycle their leaves/ needles, and go deep deep for the little nutrients they need to add a 1/16th inch of wood each year.

These soils would take a very long time to build up 'naturally' into prime ag land.

Prairie soils can be thin too, but many are deeper, and tend to be more what crops & produce are looking to root in.

Hummm, 40 acres, 10+ are a pond. Want 5 acres for a house/garden/ yard/ buildings I would think. That leaves 20 to 25 for pasture & forest.

I don't consider 100-150 feet of trees to be a 'forest', but....

Those borders are holy heck on fences. Trees shed branches, lean over, mess up the fence. Constant upkeep. The grass doesn't grow well on the border either, too much shade. The trees grow crooked & not as tall when they don't compete with each other, so no good trees any more.

I was thinking you might pick out a more open corner, & turn that 10 acres into a pasture. Leave 10-15 acres of actual forest.

I'd have to think about your patchwork idea, don't think I like it at all on first brush..... Lot of negatives. Just doesn't mesh well with how forest & how pasture like to grow.

imho, here in the northern part of the USA.

--->Paul

Rambler,

There was an initiative here a several years back to try and recreate habitat for the bobwhite quail. Seems in "the olden days" farms were smaller with fields averaging 5-10 acres, with areas of shrubs or trees in between. The huge farms cleared out these areas and converted much larger pastures, decreasing the quail habitat. Supposedly there was money available for people who were willing to convert back to this style. Don't know if it would be available for some one trying to establish it from forest though.
My thought was to set the fence line in about 10 to 15 feet from the trees. This would provide some wind break and some shade, without endagering the fence line or making it impossible to grow grass. This area between fields wouldn't be true forest, more like just a tree line to sepparate the fields, with some shrubs like azaleas etc.

The back 150 feet or so I would leave alone. That would blend in with the forest land behind the property. So it really would be forest, even though only 150 feet would be mine. It may be better to make one big pasture, for efficiecy sake. But if I could make it work with smaller pastures with not too much more work, I think it would be nicer to live with.

From what the more recent posts are saying about 2-3 generations of before you get pasture, it maybe more of a project than I'm willing to take on. But 60 years seems extreme to me. I was thinking it wouldn't take more than 5-10 years. I may have to re-think this if that's the case.

Down in my area dozer rental is 500 bucks for 10 hours that also include delivery. You can do a lot in 8 hours after you learn to drive it using the first two. What Kid don’t want to drive a bulldozer

Dozer rental to knock down and push off the trees;

A chainsaw to cut-up the trees;

A tractor and farm wagon to haul out the firewood [a street vehicle will not
likely be capable of driving in the area for all the ruts];

Excavator rental to dig out the stumps and rocks;

A truck to receive the stumps and rocks, to haul them away;

A tractor with a disc harrow to slice-up the ground and fill in the ruts;

A second excavator rental to dig-out and remove the rocks that the disc harrow discovered;

Further tractor disc harrowing to knock the area down flat and level.

So much of farming depends on the location. As always I see advise that is just nuts for 'here' but must work real well for 'there' on a topic like this. So, my comments are just conversation, and are how it is 'here'. Likely won't work quite right for someone 'there'.

My Sis & brother in law bought 14 acres, 1/3 yard, 1/3 farm land, 1/3 ravine & trees. My brother in law is from the south, and has ideas for the place..... Several of his ideas need a lot of modification to actually work 'up here'.

I'm sure things I write don't make much sense to those living in the south. Regional differences.

Anyhow, my brother in law wants a path to mow beside his tree line & the field I plant for him. So, I moved over a row. He didn't do anything with it. Next year he said he wanted room for that path - so I moved over another row. He didn't do anything about it. This summer, he mentioned how it would be nice to have room for a path there...... There is about 15 feet there total, and with no trimming, you can't tell. Those trees spread right out right quick. Soon I will not have any field at all, will be all 'path' which will be trees, and brother in law will wonder what I did? The weeds under those trees are just miserable, as it is neither forest nor open grass land - harbors miserable weeds real well. I got to have a chat with brother in law, & get this path thing sorted out. That 15 feet is making farming the 2 acre field not worth it. Field gets smaller & weedier & less sunshine.....

Here woodchucks, raccoons, and mostly deer love those tree borders, and there is very little crop on my sis's fields. I do it for a hobby, fun for them to 'be farming'. They have one of those 150' tree rows down the middle too.

Really messes up the field. Poor sunlight, poor breezes, sucks up the moisture, branches dropping allt he time, trees bending over intot he field to follow sunshine...... My yields are 1/3 less. Pasture will show the same, tho you won't 'notice' that because nothing goes through a bin....

Trees will quickly take over a 15' area. And more.

Who owns the land behind yours? Lots of threads on here of late about folks becoming an island surrounded by tract homes. You are planning to use your neighbor's land as your visual forest. Those things can change.


I don't believe it will take 60 years to make a pature. ET1 said 2-3 generations, & I always figure a generation is 20 years. That would be doing it naturally tho. If you lime, fertilize, and get the bulldozers/ excivators it should work out to have usable pasture in 3-5 years. Your soils will need to continue to change & mature into a prairie/ farmland soil over time, that can take 20+ years.


Just conversation, I don't really know anything. I tend to be a dash of cold water around here, some folks prefer cheerleaders only. I want the best for folks, and feel looking at both sides of the issue is a good thing. Sounds like you have a good idea of what you want. And a direction on how to get there. Just take my chatter as a 'what if' and not as anything more.

--->Paul

I can graze what was woods in 2 years here in NC. I usually limit the amount that is cleared to what I can manage to clean up alone, I need to mention that I own a trackloader. It may be only a few acres or up to 20 depending on the size of the trees and the time I have available. The left side of this photo was woods 2 years ago (when the photo was taken) and the photo was taken from a portion of the woods that remains.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

Rambler,

No worries. Would much rather a ballance perspective than a "yea team!" approach - particularly if the plan won't work. I was just trying to give my thoughts - a word picture if you will of what I was shooting for.
I once was on a plantation that had large live oak trees stretching accross a driveway from both sides, with pasture beyond them on both... was beautiful. Not exactly what I had in mind, but not too far off - I had pictured something with more of an understorey of dogwoods and azaleas. I would like a the "woodland glen" atmosphere - forest giving way to pasture if I could do it. It may not be practical.

Agmantoo,

I can't see any pictures. Am I doing something wrong?

What is it that you want to pasture? If it's only a few animals, do you NEED a pasture, or is there enough undergrowth to graze them in the forest? Hard to tell until you set foot on it and see what's there. I have a friend here who raises about 200 Hereford pairs, the only cleared land he has is for hay for the winter. They graze all summer and fall in dense hardwood forests. Takes more acres though.
The only full-fledged forest we've cleared was a worn-out sugarbush for row crops. We had a track excavator come in and take all the trees down, stump and all. He laid them down in rows with the stumps at the same end,we came through behind him and cut the stumps off and skidded out the logs, then he swept the stumps and heavy brush that was left into piles. All we had to do when he was done was disk it a couple of times and plant corn around the piles, in a couple years they were dry enough to burn.

Doc,
At the top of this page your will see some choices, the first being ..... user cp ..... . Click that and then on the left in a column that will come up you will see a choice ...... edit options ...... select that. Then drop down to where you can select ........ Thread Display Option..... and then in the .... checkbox...... check show images........ and you should then get the pictures when you open this discussion.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

Hmm. Show images was already clicked. I tried unchecking and re-checking it. No change. Maybe the computers I'm on have some kind of blocking. I know I could see pictures at home... Thanks anyhow.

DaleK,
I plan to start out with 2 cows, hopefully pregnant when I get them. I haven't decided on goats or not, but I am leaning this way. I think free range chickens are also in our future. But my primary (first) project will be cattle.

My plans go something like this - first, have meat for the family. Branch into local market starting with friends and family looking for grassfed, holistically raised beef. Eventually I want to develop a heat tolerant strain of either Angus or Dexter, haven't decided on which.