Outhouse, or not?
 

We will be leaving our travel trailer at our rural undeveloped property to use as temp housing while we develop the property. This will be a multi year process as we will only be there on the weekends.

This of course means we need to deal with power, water, and septic.

With regards to septic, we were thinking about just building an outhouse instead of using the bathroom in the trailer. What is involved with building an outhouse? Dig the hole with the backhoe, build a structure over it, then move the structure to a new hole when it is full?

Prolly takes awhile for the hole to fill up with infrequent use eh?

The other option is to hook something up to the RV's black water system.

Outhouse would work good.But if its like here.Don't let the Outhouse Snoops find it and turn you in.

They are illegal here.

big rockpile

Thought
 

I really doubt that you can dig a receiving pit for an outhouse with a backhoe.
It would leave too big of a hole unless you will be building a giant unit.

Figure out how big of an outhouse you want and dig the pit a bit smaller so that the sides don't cave in larger than the footprint the unit will cover.

just post a "chemical storage" on the door and a big padlock~! just don't advertise! you can pump a body full of toxic chemicals and stick many hundreds in the ground too seep into the ground water but out houses are banned as a pollution source. sprinkle of lime or cold wood ash will keep down the oder

Yea I was thinking the same thing.You can dig hole plenty big enough by hand. :shrug:

Just don't want to dig one deep as a Guy did in Leadville,Co. His DW fell in it head first in the middle of the night.Next morning the Old Man went down to do his business and found her dead :eek:

big rockpile

How about the Rent A lets. You know the portable toliets where they pump/service them monthy. Cost less tham $100 A month. You might get by with Quartly pumpings. Or try to buy one yourself. And use it. Just get A decent pump and fill A tank and take to A U Haul dealer as most have R V dumps.

If you can buy a used porta john, use it as your out house. Any one seeing it will think you are behaving as they think should be correct.

Use a sawdust toilie for awhile.

comfy, no stinkie, no snoopie govt. because it can be inside....

http://www.jenkinspublishing.com/garden_gallery.html

I agree with the sawdust toilet. We used one for a year, inside our house (broken drainpipes, long story) and it was acceptable for indoor use. It would be *better* in a separate little building (like an outhouse -- call it a tool shed or something), but even indoors there was almost no smell -- and what little there was, was because *somebody* would dump a bucket and bring it straight back into the house, instead of bringing in one of the rinsed ones that had been sitting out in the sun for a few days!

Kathleen

Backhoe OK
 

We had a backhoe dig our outhouse six years ago. It is fine. We skidded the old pump shed over top of the hole.

Then added two operable windows, a full height door with glass panel, all salvaged -- free. We added an eight-inch diameter pipe from below the floor to above the roof.

We insulated the walls and roof, added vapor barrier, then put one-inch by four-inch tongue-and-grove pine inside. The floor is two-by-six and two-by-eights, with caulked joints. We have a light and receptacle inside.

We use a scoop of lime after each use and the is no bad smell.

We put the outhouse on eight-by-eight skids so we can move it when we need a new hole.

Oh, thirty-three years ago when we made the first outhouse we dug it by hand, as we did the root cellar. I suggest using a backhoe -- much quicker and easier, and a bigger better hole will mostly likely result, it did for us.

Good luck,

Alex


http://www.abceltd.com/pics/Web/OuthouseWithWindows.jpg
Outhouse while adding fiberglass insulation

http://www.abceltd.com/pics/Web/Outhouse-seat.jpg
Inside outhouse seat, the bucket is full of lime, add a scoop each use

http://www.abceltd.com/pics/Web/Outhouse-Southeast.jpg
Inside outhouse seat Southeast with window shutters locked in place while we leave for a few weeks

Really? Our County Nazi Health department says you have to have an "approved" wastewater system installed on your property, but if you put in a septic system they cannot stop you from putting in an outhouse if you want to. You just cannot use an outhouse as your PRIMARY wastewater system. Maybe your county is stricter than ours. We are putting in the "approved" septic system but we aren't going to use it. We're using sawdust toilets instead. We weren't going to put in a septic system but we decided that, if the area ever gets too developed and we want to sell the property it would sell better with a septic system already in place.

donsgal

Alex! I love it! I thought my cousin had the fanciest outhouse I'd ever seen, but you win the prize.

My cousin built the outhouse so she'd have "facilities" while she was building her house. Now that she's finished, she'll still be keeping the outhouse to use in case of power outages, or just as a convenient outdoor potty.

I would suggest looking for a used Porta John also. I bought one for $100.00 in very good shape from a rental place. It is made of a plastic type material and is easy to disinfect and clean. We haven't had to use ours much but the place I bought it from does come and pump them out if need be.

Lagoons are legal--still dont see a problem with outhouses--hand dug--infrequent use--probably never fill up.

I went up to the Collectors Office arguing on my Taxes.Told her I didn't have running water.She asked if I had an Outhouse? I told her I did.She says their illegal you know?But she said unless someone complains there would be nothing done.

But she went on to tell me that Lagoons are legal.Like I told her that is stupid. :shrug:

But to tell the truth most I know around here just run everything over the hill.Had an owner of the local Hardware Store tell me to do just that.

big rockpile

Advice for new outhouse owners: When city-folk come to visit, please remind them that if they smoke while on the crapper, do NOT throw the lit cigarette butt down the hole! I witnessed the firey end to a prefectly good outhouse.

Why not buy one of those composting toilets for off grid i see the ads in the back of mother earth and home power and other mags like that.
That way you can reuse your waste on a flower bed later instead of it going to waste.
Although I hear they are pretty expensive.

I would definitely go with a composting sawdust toilet. Easier and less smelly than a outhouse.

Vermont is actually just revising their wastewater laws (again) and they're now explicitly allowing composting toilets (they were never not allowed, but you used to have to put in a full-size septic or whatever too, even though you would only be using it for greywater). So now you only have to have a composting toilet and wastewater treatment for greywater.

You might want to put whatever you're going to use for wastewater treatment (septic or other) toward the top of your list for projects on your land. You can have a dump station installed like they have in campgrounds, and that way you can dump blackwater and greywater without any worries.

And--someone elses pond is usually down hill from where they just let it run over the hill.....

We are trying to do this, but there is quite a bit of development that needs to happen to the land to get to the point of septic install, and I don't think I can hold it that long... ;)

I did run across this "mini septic system"

http://www.wikihow.com/Construct-a-Septic-System

This would allow us to use the bathroom in the rv (which is actually pretty nice) but this has the same problem a honeybucket would in that it would eventually need pumped.

I'd be interested in how much the sewage company would charge to pump out a honeybucket. It's $175 just to have them show up here at our place to pump out our tank. Not mention I will be using the tractor to get the trailer back to it's spot on the property and I'm not sure the septic truck would venture back there.

Outhouses are illegal here as well. I am going to sneak one in down by our big barn/shop though. We have 5 kids and really need something down there and I don't want to have to mess with a sawdust toilet for such infrequent use.

I second or third the sawdust toilet for regular use on weekends. We use one in our Yurt and it really doesn't smell at all (it's just behind a fabric curtain). We only use it for pee but it does seem like it would work well as a main system.

Good luck and have fun :)

Another possible option
 

These tanks are designed to use with your rv when you are parked and don't want to tear down just to pull the trailer over to the dump station to empty your tanks. This one is designed to be pulled by your truck through the campground to the dump station.

I could put a tank like this in the little trailer behind the atv and pull it over to my In-laws clean-out pipe on their septic system. They live on the acreage next to ours, and it would mean towing the tank across the field a ways to dump it.

The thing that worries me about this set-up is how long can the waste be left in the tank before it starts to stink up the place. The RV has 40 gallon black water tank on it, and it will take more than just one weekend to fill it up. I'd hate to have to go through the transport and dump process every weekend we are down there.

http://news.thomasnet.com/images/large/009/9206.jpg

Here in Iowa county of Wisconsin (and most of Wisconsin) you have to get a permit to have an outhouse. If the soil will allow it, they will let you have a traditional pit privy. If it doesn't (only one in the history of Iowa county could) then you have to have a tank of at least 200 gal.

We elected to go with the privy permit for several reasons. Someone always knows what you're doing, and will report you. If we have the privy and a camper, we can live on the property, as long as we "move the camper every 30 days." nudge, nudge... wink, wink.

According to the county agent, as long as there is no permanenty connected water source to our shed/workshop, we can stay in that without it being considered a permanent residence. (as long as the camper is there...) The moment you hook up a well, you have to have a full blown septic system.

My philosophy on developing land is: DON'T ---- OFF THE COUNTY AGENTS! If you need permits in the future, there will probably be delay, problems, etc. if you try to get around them and fail. Unless you're on the backside of nowhere, and have nobody around, or are good friends with EVERY neighbor, plan on being talked about, and everyone knowing what you're doing. The information age has nothing on the rural rumor mill!!!!

So, my final suggestions would be to find out what the local requirements are for a privy, and see if you can meet them. It may cost a bit ($164 for our permit), and be a pain to do, but in the long run, it might be easier.

Backhoe holes: I can dig a hole 24" wide (only have a 24" bucket) and as long of a hole as it is deep. (did I mention I LOVE my backhoe!?) So I could do a 24" wide, 36" long, 36" deep hole.

Michael

Neat outhouse Alex. Never thought I would see one with windows!

Quarter Section
 

Thanks Nette.

Ramblin Wreck,

About the windows, we have a Quater Section in the deep country with no one close. Our cabin and the outhouse are 800' in from the road and protected by 200' of trees, so it's very private. The views and ventilation are the best.

The windows face south and west, so during winter the passive solar heats the outhouse up a bit.

We are in an area with NO municipal regulations, except electrical saftey inspections, so no problems about being allowed to use one of the best sewage disposal systems around today.

We also have indoor toilet to a pit system, but don't use it too much. If gusets are here it is very nice to have a second bathroom.

Thanks,

Alex

Makes sense Alex. The old farmstead in New Brunswick has an old (and in need of repair) two seater outhouse. The couple that lived there (until they were both in their 90's) had no children. (They must have been a really close!) There's not as much land on this farm as yours, but it is at the end of a provincial road. Seeing pictures of yours has given me some ideas for re-building that one...with windows.

Quote: From Donsgal..

"We weren't going to put in a septic system but we decided that, if the area ever gets too developed and we want to sell the property it would sell better with a septic system already in place."

A friend of mine had the same thought. He had it installed and uses it as a cistern instead. (Leach Bed System) He has a long, narrow garden but he never has to water it.. ;)

Well, I *love* the idea of an outhouse ...... if nothing else, it helps cut down on unnecessary bathroom time ;).

I'll have to check about the laws here. I know here in town you have to be hooked into 'city' water/sewer (and are charged a ludicrous price accordingly even though the water has such a high chlorine content that I haven't used bleach in 7 years, only wash in cold water, and our whites are shiny white!) even if you have a perfectly good cistern (which we do). This summer I'll be seeing how many ways around some of these moronic ordinances there are to regain a little of our freedom to be more responsible land stewards. Heck, I may end up having to run as Mayor to begin making changes!

Downloading the Humanure book now. Heard about it for a while but never looked into it. The idea makes a boatload of sense............

~Falcon

Well, make sure it doesn't affect your or your neighbors water supply. That might be a real problem.

If you can afford it and know where you want it located why not have the septic put in first? Then build a portable outhouse over the service hole. When you leave, move the outhouse and replace the cover. Been to some state parks where they use this but as a perment set up.

When I was a kid I used to work on a mink farm that had a two "holer" for the help. The purpose of the second hole wasn't for companionship but for when the poop would pile up and freeze during winter. You had a "go to" hole, just in case. That is only my personal experience and I'm not sure that's why they had two holes. I do know that some one holers also came with a stick for to topple the "pile". Again, I am only assumming this is what it was for! Outhouses are legal in Maine. :baby04:

Go for the outhouse. It's a simple and effective solution. Depending on the soil shoring up the sides can be a good idea. Having an outhouse can come in handy in the cases when water lines are frozen or the powers out once you are in your permanant home. DOn't know about the legalities of an outhouse in your area, but they are legal here.

The only issue we have had with ours is, as BTO mentioned, the poopsicle that forms during our six monthes of sub-zero weather. We solved that with the wide backhoe dug hole and the two seater method. Dump a little lime or hardwood ash after each use and you will be fine.

Thanks. All we ever had down here was "one holers"...so I was thinking with a "Southern Bias", which is the wrong frame of reference for a Canadian privy.

Our outhouse has two small windows high up so we can vent but no one can peek in. It is a three holer, with the center hole have a lid so if you must bring a child with you they can sit down without falling in.
It also has curtains, and a small table with soap, paper towels and a dish pan. When it is in use during apple season I fill the dishpan with water.
It doesn't get used much, but, we get lots of compliments and EVERYONE wants to see the outhouse when they come to our place. :rolleyes:

Melissa in NE

We have the same situation as you. We have 125 remote acres and a camper. We use it on weekends.
One problem with using the indoor plumbing during the winter is that the camper septic system will freeze up if not winterized. We use a port a potty during the winter.

When spring comes we use the campers facilities and have a honey wagon like wayne2 showed. It works pretty well and isn't any more trouble to dump than the porta potty.

We just run the Grey water over the hill.
As a dump site, I dug a hole about 100 yards from the camper and dump in there. It's covered with a piece of plywood.

If you use an organic conditioner in your septic system and bio toilet paper. there isn't any mess or smell. In the dump hole I add a little lime and once in a while, some 10-10-10 fertilizer. The latter adds the nitrogen needed for quick composting.

To be honest and frank, I could give a tinkers ---- what the law is, this is just the best temporary system I have found until we have a site for the house ready.

If you get one of those units, get the 45 gallon one. It also comes with a handle that lets you hook to the ball on your truck or ATV.

Might be interesting one day to hook it up and drive some where I don't like with the valve open :hobbyhors :hobbyhors :p :hobbyhors

In Wi, we are allowed to put up an outhouse, but on a concrete tank. About the same as a septic tank, but just a holding tank.
Size goes by how may people use it. Think it was 700 gal. min.

This would have to be pumped out when full, so we used a sawdust/compost toilet, figuring that a true septic tank would be about the same money.

Septic is in now, had a conventional "perk",so the tank has the drain lines and bed.

I agree with Watcher, that a septic tank w/ temp building on it would be a good bet, wish I would have thought of it.
But I have to say the the sawdust/composting toilet did work fine and is still in use "down the hill", at the shed.

LOL, We actually occasionally run into the "pile issue" in our RV when some members of our family (who shall remain nameless) fail to use enough water during the flush cycle and the mound builds up.

LOL, I hear ya.
Had a young man at "The Place" deer hunting, used the Port-a-potty (before composting toilet). Must have used the whole roll of TP, froze in a mound of TP in the center.

Had to heat it up to "knock down the pile", never let him in the shed (the unofficial bathroom) with any more than 2 sheets of TP after that.

Shed was unheated, but to make thing a little more comfortable, one of the guys brought a electric heater.
This worked out OK, except it was a infrared heater that heated the surface of the Port-a-potty, not the air.

So on the first cold morning, got out to the shed and fired up the heater, waited 15 min, nope, still cold, so another 10 min, then it was "TIME".

As soon as my butt hit the seat, I realized the meaning of "heated surface".
I didn't do that again

Peter,

Do you leave waste in the blue tote for prolonged periods of time?

In our situation we have a 40 gal black tank on the rv, but we would not fill it up during a one weekend stay. It may take 5 or 6 weekends before it is full, but those 5 or 6 weekends will be spread out over 3 months or so.

So this means I would either need to leave it percolating in the black tank in the rv, or dump it to the blue tote and leave it percolating there, or do a partial unload/dump from the blue tank to my FIL's septic at the end of every weekend (which is what I'm trying to avoid).