Compare / Contrast: Vinegar Mix -vs- Roundup?

I would NOT use salt. Just b/c it seems to kill the soil forever. OR contaminate, whatever the word is that I'm looking for.

10% vinegar works really well, breaks down & does not contaminate the ground water or leach over to a tree & kill it. Also, it REACTS w/other stuff in the ground water.

Spray the vinegar AFTER mowing, on a sunny day w/o much wind for best results.

I'll try to find some of the articles on roundup that tell 'the rest of the story'.

Patty

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Topic


RoundUp
NEW STUDIES: MONSANTO'S BEST SELLING "SAFE" PESTICIDE IS HIGHLY TOXIC

Two new peer-reviewed scientific studies have further confirmed the toxicity of glyphosate, the world's most commonly used herbicide. The June 2005 scientific journal "Environmental Health Perspectives" reports that glyphosate, sold by Monsanto under the brand name "Roundup," damages human placental cells at exposure levels ten times less than what the company claims is safe. A study in the August journal Ecological Applications found that even when applied at concentrations that are one-third of the maximum concentrations typically found in waterways, Roundup still killed up to 71 percent of tadpoles in the study. Similar glyphosate studies around the world have been equally alarming. The American Academy of Family Physicians epidemiological research has now linked exposure to the herbicide with increased risk of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, a life-threatening cancer, while a Canadian study has linked glyphosate exposure with increased risk for miscarriage. A 2002 study linked glyphosate exposure with increased incidence of attention deficit disorder in children. Despite these studies, Monsanto continues to advertise Roundup, sprayed heavily on 140 million acres of genetically engineered crops across the world, as one of the "safest" pesticides on the market. Learn more & take action:
http://www.organicconsumers.org/monlink.html




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Everything you never wanted to know about RoundUp:

Using RoundUp to kill Bermuda is a bad idea but so is leaving the Bermuda grass. It is the worst weed you can have in a bed. Plastic, both solid and the so-called weed-blocking kind, is also a bad idea because it doesn't work well and fouls up the most important part of the soil - the surface just under the mulch. That's where the temperature is ideal, minerals are available, life is transitioning back and forth between the mulch and the soil, etc. The best method is to remove the top 1 and 1/2 to 2 inches of soil and toss it in the compost pile. Then apply the compost and other organic amendments. Do not till the area first - that drives pieces of the stems (rhizomes and stolons) down into the ground allowing it to come back forever as a horrible weed.

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OK here is my take on things. I have used nothing but White Vinegar and Lemon joy soap for 12 years now.
Before then I used round up.

The vinegar mixutre is best used on hot days..the hotter the better. With more tough weeds you may need to spray up to three times.

I use a nice pump spray set up, using Vinegar with 1/4 cup lemon joy soap. Gently mix so you do not get foam. Spray on weeds you want gone.

Vinegar can change the PH in your soil but as of yet,,never to the point plants will not grow.
If you spray your good plants, depends on how big they are to what kind of problem you will have.
So far I have never killed or harmed in any way any of the plants I want to keep.
Have planted new plants in the soil a couple of days after spraying weeds with Vinegar and had no problems.

Vinegar is also not toxic to ones livestock and animals.

Vinegar does not make the soil sterile at all.

Roundup can not say the same thing. Having used both there is no contest.

Vinegar is far more healthy to the earth, not toxic to animals and wildlife.

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Shari

I gave up the roundup about 15 years ago.

I have never used vinegar, although I have thought about it a time or two. I always manage to come up with some other solution.

When I have unwanted vegetation, I usually thing about smothering. Maybe find some annual that will outcompete whatever I'm trying to smother. Or maybe throw down some moldy hay - sometimes I'll toss some seed on top of the hay.

There have been a couple of times I've used lime - but I keep forgetting to go back to those places to see how that worked out.

There are lots of toxic things that occur in nature that would have an allelopathic effect if that's what you really want. You could put down a bunch of cedar shavings - that would kill almost anything but cedar. Black walnut shavings would kill lots of different things.

I would rather come up with something that would make the soil richer along the way.

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[raising chickens] [diatomaceous earth] [permaculture] [rocket mass heater] [lawn care]

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I've wondered that too. The fence I'm putting up now goes through a pasture with some sedges. They will kill my riding lawnmower so I may try dumping some feed salt on the mound. It should work.

The area we need to clean up is about 20 - 28 feet wide by 3/4 mile long. The weeds (main ones are pampass grass, wild rose, honeysuckle, other grasses and TONS of poison ivy). We plan to plant blueberry, raspberry, native persimmons and echinecea in that area so we do not want to "kill" the soil. The weeds are over 8 feet high in some sections, less so in some......but over all way over 5 feet thick. A neighbor with a tractor said he cannot get in there until the weeds are down, then he suggests the hay/woodchips/ and leaves to build up soil before we plant next year.

So -- I still am unsure what to do. Perhaps the vinegar but only a bit and see if that kills the tops without getting too much in the soil.......

Don't know about the pampas grass but everything else is good goat food - how about having a local goat owner bring in their herd and having at it for the summer? With some electro netting, moveable shelter, water; this is what I do with both goats & sheep on our property- course they then give me poison ivy but that's because I'm a hugger! And the plus side is that they'll amend the soil too.

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what name product do you ask for or look for? what will it say on the lable? Will it be a jug with big letters,"glyphosate-41%", on it?

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how much vinegar for that 1/4 cup of joy?

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Gallon of Vingear with 1/4cup Lemon Joy soap.
Put it in one of those nice sprayers and use that way.
Best vinegar I found to use is the "Four Monks" brand at most Costcos.

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Yeah, when we bought our place going on 4 years ago the previous owner was "kind" enough to leave us a seeping 55 gallon drum of diesel fuel "for the weeds". Nice. I called the real estate agent to ask why the drum of fuel had not been removed, since I had specifically stated that I wanted all trash/ junk removed from the property before we took possession. The realtor then proceeded to explain to me that "that's just the way people around here do things" (spraying diesel along the fences to kill weeds). He was surprised that I wasn't going to use it! Interesting to note that no one else I've met since thinks dumping diesel on the earth is a reasonable way to control weeds

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Too bad you are so far from us here in GA - I'd love to come and dig up some of your wild roses and pampas grass...

Me, too. Me, too.

There are many, many names.

They _must_ list the active ingredient on the label. It will be in smaller type, typically in a box, with inert ingredients also listed. It will be glysophate 41%.

Some of the smaller jugs might possibly have other active ingredients in them these days. You don't want that. Those are new things for impatient people, mix in extra chemicals to make it look like the spray is working faster.

Most of the 2.5 gallon jugs are selling for $39.99 to 59.99 these days. That would treat 10 acres or so. Mix about 10 gal water with a quart per acre & clean up the weeds. If you have hard water, that will bind up the glysophate - best to use soft water or add some AMS (N fertilizer) at about 4 lbs per 10 gallons.

Let the field set for 7 days or more. Glysophate goes down the plant through the root system, and then kills the plant from the bottom up. You want to let things work, don't try to work it up too quick, and don't be disappointed if the plants don't look affected for a few days.

Salt applied heavy enough to kill plants is gonna be a lot worse for your soils long term than glysophate ever was, Vinegar just burns off the green top of plants, doesn't kill off the tough ones at all. Most soils are too low in ph the way it is, this only makes them worse. In high ph soils like I have, the vinegar does pretty much nothing, neutralized right away. These are fine for folks with a small lawn & lots of time on their hands. But not an effective weed control program for real needs. Folks have opinions, but aren't thinking on this one. Compare the LDL of salt & glysophate, as well as vinegar. Heck, compare it to the LDL of gasoline, & we folks handle that stuff every day..... Glysophate is probably the least dangerous of all things mentioned so far. imho

--->Paul

The label on mine says Honcho. It comes in many names. Check at a local farm supply. Just ask for"glyphosate 41%" But not "ROUNDUP". They will know.

Excellent Point! I forgot that the flowers always die below the bird feeder because sunflower seeds kill it off.

Nel, maybe you should plant sunflowers there for a year...

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Winter rye also has an alliopathic (sp???) effect. It will suppress some small seeds from sprouting, esp as the straw & root mass decompose.

Corn meal will also suppress some seeds from sprouting.

I didn't know sunflower seeds would do that too.

These options don't do much for exsisting plants tho. Timing is _everything_ with many of these home remidies. Be off a day or 2, and it becomes wasted effort.

--->Paul

Ok -- Test Plots are on! Yesterday we mixed up two batches of weed killer. One was the regular type roundup the other the recipe for vinegar/salt mix. We spayed a total of 4 liquid gallons of each mix and keep record of what we sprayed and where. We did NOT try to spray everything in the areas, just spot sprayed the plants we need to kill. Yes, I know there will be "over spray" kill and we want to see which one kills more plants that we did not want to kill (for example we do not try to kill the daisy or ferns but some will die due to overspray). We will watch to see what dies first, what comes back, and so forth. The two areas we sprayed are NOT right in the plot we later plan to use for food crops, so it will be safer to experiment with these areas. Also, we decided not to try and plant this fall, so we have more time to clean up and not have to spray so much nasty stuff. Thank you everyone and we will keep you posted on what we see.

What mixture of Roundup are you using? As I mix it (doing 3-400 acres a year) 4 gallons of mixture would completely cover between a quarter acre and half an acre.

I ask because the only doubts I have about Roundup come from people using it at too heavy a mixture over too small an area. Stood behind a man in line once who wanted to buy a full jug of Roundup. This was just as licensing came into effect to buy ag chemicals here (about 18 years ago). As he argued with the dealer to make an exception for him, it turned out he had been using a full jug of concentrate every summer on his quarter acre lawn. He didn't get it but I had to wonder how many premixed spray bottles he'd end up buying at the garden centre.

We are using the Prof Formula mix. It says to use 3 ounces per gallon and we did mix it at 3 ounces per gallon since we are doing the experiment to see what will happen. The "4 gallons" of mix -- what I meant was 4 gallons of WATER and we put the 3 ounces per gallon in it. NOT 4 gallons of roundup!!!! That would spray our whole county! We sprayed it (and the vinegar mix) along a roadway, up on an embankment where neighbors want to park a tractor, in a gully we need to clear in order to fill in later, and in the edge of a wood area where we need to kill the pampass grass to keep it out of the woods. Around here the pampass grass is all out of control. If it gets in the woods, it will begin to kill off trees.

Thanks for checking about the mix since that would be bad to mix it up too strong.