water, water, water

There are many well-accepted population estimates of the Indian population of the country when Columbus arrived. "National Geographic" ran an exhaustive story about all that a couple years back, including how the results were obtained. The estimates, based on archaelogical evidence, generally fall within the range of 40 million to 70 million inhabitants. Here's one reference that puts perhaps as high as 90 million:

http://encarta.msn.com/text_76157077...h_America.html

There were also several huge cities in the area now called the United States.

Since I am Indian, I can't wait for the rest of you illegal immigrants to get the heck out. LOL.

Old Navajo joke...

When NASA was preparing for the Apollo Project, it took the astronauts to a Navajo reservation in Arizona for training. One day, a Navajo elder and his son came across the space crew walking among the rocks. The elder, who spoke only Navajo, asked a question. His son translated for the NASA people: "What are these guys in the big suits doing?" One of the astronauts said that they were practicing for a trip to the moon. When his son relayed this comment the Navajo elder got all excited and asked if it would be possible to give to the astronauts a message to deliver to the moon. Recognizing a promotional opportunity when he saw one, a NASA official accompanying the astronauts said, "Why certainly!" He told an underling to get a tape recorder.

The Navajo elder's comments into the microphone were brief. The NASA official asked the son if he would translate what his father had said. The son listened to the recording and laughed uproariously. But he refused to translate.

So the NASA people took the tape to a nearby Navajo village and played it for other members of the tribe. They too laughed long and loudly, but also refused to translate the elder's message to the moon.

An official government translator was summoned. After he finally stopped laughing, the translator relayed the message:

"WATCH OUT FOR THESE A------S. THEY HAVE COME TO STEAL YOUR LAND."

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Jim Steele
Sweetpea Farms
"To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing." -- Robert Gates

One last post...Cool water/drought/Western streamflow data and predictions are available and constantly updated at:

http://drought.unl.edu/dm/

I visit there often to check up on things.

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Jim Steele
Sweetpea Farms
"To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing." -- Robert Gates

If this is the logic we are to use then YOU are an immigrant too! I'm afraid your land bridge back to Asia is under water at the present time though so you'll need a boat to go "back home."

.....Alan {laughing}

Laughing as well...

I'll use gccrook's logic right back at ya...who SAW us cross a land bridge? Our own historians say we have been here forever, and they caution us against a white society that attempts to show we too are immigrants in order to justify its own deeds.

Then I'll use English law, the basis of U.S. law. We possessed it first, so it's ours.

Then I'll use the Supreme Court's own rulings in the matter of the Black Hills.

http://supreme.justia.com/us/448/371/

By caveat, the Supreme Court acknowledges Indian ownership of the land. The Lakota, Dakota and Nakota peoples have never taken the "settlement" money. The ownership of the Black Hills is still in question.

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Jim Steele
Sweetpea Farms
"To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing." -- Robert Gates

I guess we own it then thru adverse posession. Anyway, I don;t think it's going back to the Indians anytime soon.

I see.

Well then, I'll have to use still older law than English Common Law to justify our taking the continent from you previous immigrants - the Right of Conquest. Which is how most every nation in the history of humankind has come into being. Precedent going all the way back to the case of H. sapiens vs H. neanderthalis et. al. argued in the Court of Prehistory.

.....Alan {laughing}.

A bit on water...I think this is the air well mentioned!

http://www.bagelhole.org/?page=350

In California it’s the environmentalists that are causing major issues. They are filing lawsuits to restore waterways for fish and wildlife. Creeks can no longer be dammed because of fish runs, doesn’t matter they have been this way 80+ years. The farmers in the Klamath Basin are fighting for water rights. Doesn’t matter that the since WW1, this area has been farmed and by letting the water run will threaten the migratory path of birds that now count on this area. LA has been forced to restore waterways in the Owens Valley. It seems to me that after 75+ years, water sources should be left alone. The environment is changed. I’m not saying conservation shouldn’t be practiced.

Yeah. I'd say it's going back sooner than you might realize. We might not see the day, but the kids age 5 or younger now will. At least in the case of the Black Hills, your own Supreme Court says you do not own it.

__________________
Jim Steele
Sweetpea Farms
"To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing." -- Robert Gates

The air well link was lost to me during a puter crash, good to have it back.

A second method of condensation exists. A pyramid of dark colored rocks over a water tight base. The sun heats up the rocks, water condenses after sundown, and drips to the base which is tapered toward the middle. The rocks must be near uniform size so air can pass through the pile.

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If you can read this - thank a teacher. If you can read this in English - thank a veteran.

Never mistake kindness for weakness.

Glad I live where I do. I've a spring and the will to protect it. When the well is dug I'll cap it and hide it till needed.

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"Only the rocks [and really embarassing moments] live forever"

"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands..." tick-tick-tick

You really think privately owned land in the US is going back to the Indians? Is that what you're saying?

Google T. Boone Pickens + Water. It is very interesting.

"will allow a gravity flow transfer albeit maybe a little cRooked , LOL ."

Well if you let the government regulate it it surely will turn out "crooked". Enough said.

So sorry to say but their is no real privately owned land in the US. It is all incorporated. You have a deed only. This entitles you to all profit from the land. That is all. They will probably give the ownership back to the Indians. They will have the same power as the state/county/town. You will be subject to the taxes and limitations they impose and such. But your standing will not change most likely.

But it will be a cash cow for those tribes involved.

Okay. I was BORN HERE. My parents were BORN HERE. My grandparents were BORN HERE. My family on both sides has been in this country for nearly four hundred years! This is OUR HOME. Your's, too, but we certainly don't belong to someplace across the ocean that neither we nor our parents have ever seen! Just exactly when do native-born people STOP being "immigrants"???

I want you to understand, I have NO prejudice against the aboriginal people of this country -- there are full-blood and half-blood tribal members in my family and I love them, and I really don't care what color ANYBODY'S skin is. I am just so *tired* of this being called a 'European' business, just because my ancestors lived there hundreds of years ago! Your ancestors came from Asia hundreds, maybe even thousands of years ago, so are you an Asian? (ALL living human beings are descended from Noah's three sons, so the tribal histories are incorrect if they state that the tribal peoples have always been here. Maybe always in oral memory, but not always in history.) ALL of our ancestors once lived in the Middle East -- so are we all Middle Easterners??

This dividing people up according to where their distant ancestors came from really NEEDS to stop, and stop NOW! Do you want to see this country torn apart in a bunch of little race wars (or worse, a big race war?)? As peoples who now have four hundred years or more of SHARED HISTORY, our peoples, more than any others, should be bound together to protect our land against the current invasion of people who do NOT share the same values we do. I would say the same for the black peoples who share our values. They've been here for hundreds of years, too, and have a shared history. I realize that some of them live in inner cities and have gang values but the majority are good folks and we need them. Same with the original Hispanics. We ought NOT to be picking at one another! We ought to be working together to try to salvage what's left of the country we ALL love!

There's no going back to pre-Columbian days. Even if this continent hadn't been 'invaded' after it was discovered by Europeans, it still would have been majorly affected by trade and other influences. There is no way that this would still be the same place that it once was, pre-Columbus, even if peoples looking for new homelands had not come here! And it will never return to what it once was, either. It's going to become something new and different, something none of us have experience with. We all need to work together to fix the problems that we have, and try to make OUR country a better place, instead of fighting and trying to make it 'MY' country exclusively (and by 'MY' I'm not referring to myself, but to the attitude of each group of people who wants this land).

And I'm NOT laughing. This is something that has been eating at me for quite a while now, ever since it became politically correct to 'worship' the aboriginal peoples. I love my home, my land, and I'm not about to give it up and go 'back' to Europe just because my distant ancestors once lived there! I appreciate the good things about the peoples who were on this continent when my ancestors came here -- but I also recognize that they weren't perfect, either. They were, and are, human beings just like the rest of us. I also appreciate the good things -- mostly ideas, and faith in the God of the Bible -- that the Europeans brought with them. You should, too.

Kathleen