Got Raw Milk? Be Very Quiet

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Please explain, in scientific terms, this mysterious process known as "devitalization."

(This is exactly the kind of New Age mumbo-jumbo that ought to serve as a huge red flag to people capable of rational thought.)

And if you were eagerly clamouring for the opportunity to eat something that may well sicken you, most would be astute enough to recognize you as a fool.

Because milk seems relatively innocuous, it's more difficult to make the connection in its case, but raw milk -- particularly the kind we're talking about here, milk that presumably is produced commercially, in quantities sufficient for sale to many customers, which makes it much more difficult to ensure quality -- may well be just as dangerous as those mushrooms.

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I agree there should be laws in place for the sale of Raw Milk, It IS not that good for a person to ---- things like that and has been proved over and over again. but some of you just stick with the greenies on this and that is it. Choice NO there should be things in place to protect people as a Whole, and that is that. And Besides NO Animals Lets their Young Drink ANY Milk after reaching a certain Age They just Don't Need it Period. This saying you should be be drinking milk the rest of your life is just NOT Natural at all in the animal kingdom what makes people think it IS good for humans to do so.
And selling raw milk is taking chances, most people don't know how to handle it, as it doesn't last that long in the frig. WAY TO Rich for one thing especially Jersey Milk. at 6 or 7% Fat. Way to rich for a lot a people to handle that much fat at one time.
Nope there sure should be laws protecting the general public over getting their hands on raw milk. My dad hasn't be able to drink milk or much milk or ice cream for the last 60 years after getting SICK from RAW MILK.
Yes no selling of raw milk WITHOUT the proper certification should be allowed..

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Not in this country.

And actually, according to the Bible, pork isn't food at all. I believe the Bible also tells us to cook meat.

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[QUOTE=willow_girl]Please explain, in scientific terms, this mysterious process known as "devitalization."QUOTE]

Well, what do you think it means? De vital ization. If something devitalizes something it removes that which is vital, in this case vitamins, and beneficial bacteria (and certainly more). Certainly you do not argue that pastuerization does not destroy vitamins, and certainly you believe vitamins are vital for health?

What makes you think man's science has it all figured out anyhow? There are plenty of properties and substances we haven't discovered or understood. Scientiest's ideas on things are constantly changing. You can't say one thing one day, and then the opposite the next without being WRONG on either point, can you? They were wrong about eggs, they were wrong about margarine, they were wrong about the earth's shape, they were wrong wrong wrong over and over again. Now we have it right, right? Why, because now is the present? How very full of ourselves we are, to think we know it all now. Tomorrow we will think we were fools today.


The only thing this whole argument comes down to is freedom of choice. I make the decision on what I eat, not the government. If I want to eat a raw piece of pork (although I can't think of anything worse at the moment), that's MY decision.

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I 100% agree. A "Cowshare" in SW Wash made 17 people sick with their e.Coli tainted raw milk last year--including 3 children who were intesive care for kidney failure. Theis cowshare was operating in direct defiance of a cease and desist order from the state health dept.

A raw milk dairy is legal in Wash state but they have to be licensed and meet grade A dairy standards like any other dairy. Certain common sense standards have to be met such as having a concrete floor with a drain in the milking parlor and running water so you can clean before and after milking. Teat dips to disinfect and clean the teat before milking.

This particular unlicensed dairy milked the cows in a dirt floor parlor--what happens when cows poop on dirt? It makes poopy mud that is rife with bacteria and can't be washed out. They were bottling the milk in their family kitchen. They weren't testing for e.Coli more than 1 time/month.

A raw milk dairy needs much more stringent testing than a pasturized dairy.

Raw milk is illegal to sell in Oregon except if you have 3 cows or less. Then you can sell raw milk directly to your neighbors who come to your farm and pick it up themselves. No signage, no advertising.

Rather silly argument--I have yet to see a nursing mother standing in a pile of her own excrement and offering her baby a manure covered nipple.

Cows poop wherever, whenever, even while being milked, their teats are located close to their rectum and they don't wear blouses and bras like a nursing human.

Does anyone have any info on the cause of kidney failure in small chicldren exposed to e coli? I read an article from the LA times some months ago that led me to understand that it was misguided use of antibiotics that led to massive bacteria die off that caused the kidney failure not the e coli itself. I would be very interested to know if anyone else has further info on this.

What I have read is that the toxins excreted by the e.Coli shuts down the kidneys

it's still the answer....

In a perfect world, raw milk poises no more danger than the store bought pasteurized. But in reality, unless you are milking your own cows and in control of the milk from the teet to the fridge, you have no way of knowing if the milk is safe or not. And that's ok if you are making the choice for your own body and no one else's. But the arguments are valid against giving possible tainted milk to small children. You wanna drink it, go ahead. You wanna share it with a 3 yr old, shame on you.

Now, lot of variants in this thread, several issues at hand, but one thing that jumped out at me when I read the first line; Its the monopoly that large milk producers hold over the control of milk in their states. And yes, many states have laws similiar to Ohio's regarding the sell of milk.

They justify the law based on health issues but the real issue at hand is the "control" of all milk sells by a select few. Large dairies and commercial entities do not want the small dairy farmer to be free to compete. And they block this by lobbying for strong laws against the sell of unpasteurized milk.

Easy to influence the boys down at the state capitol to see things your way when you contribute to their campaigns and line their pockets with rolls of $100 bills. Works with oil, works with construction projects, works even with milk. Think about it.

This is the relevant part of the article I was talking about:

............ One of the physicians stated that until the results came back, the boy was not to be given antibiotics. In the case of O157:H7, they learned later, antibiotics often caused a mass kill of the bacteria and a mass release of a toxin known as Shiga, which could shut down a child's renal system.

Here is a link to the article:
http://www.latimes.com/features/maga...-home-magazine

I have not read anything about this elsewhere and was curious if other people knew more.

Good post. I personally give my kids pasteurized milk because we DON'T have a cow or goats and I don't trust the big dairies, etc. BUT... I think people should have the choice if they want to drink it or not.

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From the smart one in the family: If you are drinking fresh raw milk off off of the farm the bad bugs don't have enough time to harm you. The longer raw milk is in the system the more dangerous it is especially for young kids.

I've looked into the case in Washington and our rules would have worked. If you drink fresh raw milk within a day or two you are much much safer. I believe that you are better drinking raw milk, but you need to have it really fresh.

Actually, I have a PhD in molecular biology, and an MS in microbiology, and the gov't often listens to me. See, I know a thing or seven about the transmission of disease. Don't preach to me how clean your milk is; if you're not pasteurizing, I guarantee it has pathogens in it. Whether or not its a count high enough to make you ill is the big question - and a risk I'd never put to my children. My milk parlor is as clean as they come, and my goats are as healthy as any - but I don't drink raw milk, and I don't eat raw eggs. You can't look at a healthy animal and have any idea what's hiding in the milk. You can't guarantee a clean udder unless you've somehow sterilized it - and you can't filtered out ALL the bacteria because they're WAY smaller than the porous membrane you filter it through. [good post up until here. Having a PHD doesn't give you the right to be uncivil. - Chuck]

Government propoganda - is that what you call anything you don't understand?

when I was a small kid, my dad used to bring home raw milk from a local farmer that raised brown swiss cows. It was the best tasting cream I remember as a kid loved it.
I'd be buying it today if I could from a local farmer, but it's illegal. Something about buying raw milk from a commercial plant makes me think it's not safe.
I never died from drinking local farmer milk that I trusted was carefully handled.
If I had my own goat or cow, I'd be drinking raw milk, and would keep the teats and equipment squeeky clean to collect it with and store it properly immediately upon milking.
But then I eat known wild edible mushrooms and all that sort of really dangerous foods including shrimp from polluted waters. Yikes!

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So what you're trying to say is that you don't drink raw milk. OK.

I don't see it as a "control" issue. Some with tinfoil hats may but some see "control" issues everywhere. Once upon a time I saw it as such but then I grew up.

Doc has it right. If it is illegal to sell raw milk then don't do it.
I grew up drinking it on the farm but I don't think I would sell it to people.
Even if your animals and facilities are "squeaky clean" you don't know what is going on inside your animals body.
E coli, salmonella, Campylobacter are not something you can strain out of the milk.If the cow is infected, chances are you won't even know it.

As for the benefits of raw milk, I saw a bunch of links from raw milk but there are a lot of maybes and unsubstantiated blurbs passing as facts there.

according to the JAMA
Hit the CDC website and search for raw milk you'll find plenty of cases where people became sick from raw milk.

If it means that much to you, get your own animal or get the laws changed in your state. Good luck with the second choice as the majority of folks prefer their food to be as safe as possible.

Forget where I just read the article..talks about lactose intolerant children who have NO problem with any types of raw milk. Trying to find someone local to buy from for my family .

I think it means, "New Age mumbo-jumbo that sounds convincing to the scientifically illiterate."

Yes, and you would be a fool for doing so, wouldn't you?

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