Got Raw Milk? Be Very Quiet

good post



i pasturise, for my own well being and mental health, but I would never wish to impose my paranoia on anyone else...its a personal decission, and a parental one.

keep big brother out of our fridge

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"Obviously I meant that raw COW'S milk doesn't benefit anything other than a baby cow."

I take it then that if you sell the milk to an "Approved Government subsidized Dairy" that they will pastuerize it and destroy the beneficial enzymes like lactase and suddenly, miraculously it becomes BENEFICIAL.

Who pays your salary???? Inquiring minds want to know.

[]

When you pasteurize milk, you not only kill the bad stuff, but also the good stuff. The milk that you buy at the store is from cows that are fed feed with Rumensin in it. Rumensin has been supposedly approved for use in the dairy industry. I don't know about you but I don't want to drink milk that has this in it. Cow dairies are also using drugs to enhance milk production and to make the cow's udders look better to the general pubIlic. That is why when our goats are not milking, we buy organic cow milk, none of that in there.

We do pasteurize our milk for ourselves and to feed back to the kids. We have drank it raw and have had no problems.

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should breast milk be pasterized?It is raw milk comes from a mammry gland.
As far as drinking raw cow or goat milk, this is for me to decide. Not the govt.

because they have millions in profits and marketing to tell you how what hey sell is safe and the best for you and that their proccess is what does it
and if you undercut their proffits or prove thier maketing wrong then they stand to loose and they hire very expensive lobiest to make sure they never loose

no point in banning sugar it has been replaced by corn syrup in everything you buy anyhow about the only way to get sugar is in a bag labled sugar at the grocery.

i think we should ban lobiests well severly limit them
how about a system where you would have to get a letter to read and sing for anyone lobbing on your behalf and they could do little more than meet with them give copies of the letters (in pdf format would be ok) and if aplicable take them on say like a tour of a pertinant facility (example if someone was lobbieng for the use of methane digesters to run generators to provide power for the grid)
and how about a nation wide refurendum on this in the next presidetial election.

I didn't read every post in this thread, but here's one to think about....

IF IT IS TUBERCULOSIS EVERYONE IS WORRIED ABOUT, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHY ILLEGALS FROM SOUTH OF THE BORDER ARE ALLOWED TO FREELY SPREAD T.B. TO THE POINT THAT IT IS EPIDEMIC IN STATES LIKE TEXAS? SOMEONE ANSWER ME THAT? I GUARANTEE that more t.b. has been spread recently by illegals than by raw milk. It is rampant in Houston and Pasadena Tx. Independant School districts. I think if people are worried about diseases, they need to look to more prolific vectors like illegals and the other unvaccinated.

Interestingly, the Socialist Republic of Oregon is one of the few states that ALLOWS the sale of raw milk. We have regulations to follow in order to sell it without being licensed (can't have more than two milking cows or nine milking goats; customer has to supply their own container, and pick the milk up at the farm; and we aren't allowed to advertise), but it is legal. And, if someone wants to jump through the hoops and get certified (difficult and expensive but can be done), then they can sell just like the larger commercial dairies -- raw milk in the stores, at farmer's markets, and so on.

Raw milk is VERY beneficial to a lot of people -- doctors, in more enlightened times, used to prescribe raw goat milk to people with certain illnesses, and there are a lot of people who can't drink pastuerized cow milk, but can drink raw goat milk. (As one poster mentioned above in her/his own case.)

Kathleen

Wow......you sure don't handle it well when you have many people opposing your viewpoint. Calm down.

DocM, while I agree that people need to obey the law, number one, in the original article it said that the person who had the milk products confiscated had NOT been charged with anything, which makes me wonder if he actually WAS breaking any laws.

Secondly, I find your statement above to be extremely insulting, and I suspect that a lot of people here will agree with me. My milk may be raw, but IT IS CLEAN! I, and my family, DO NOT DRINK POOP! What an IGNORANT and INSULTING THING TO SAY! As proof of the cleanliness of my milk, I will tell you that it keeps, fresh and sweet, for TWICE AS LONG AS THE PASTUERIZED GARBAGE FROM THE STORE! In fact, I had taken a jar of milk to church (for my lunch -- I'm the church secretary), and put it in the frig there and forgot about it for two weeks. Then I remembered and put it in my bag to take home; got busy as soon as I got home (found a doe kidding as I drove up) and forgot to bring the jar in the house. It sat in the car for four days, cold at night, but warm during the day -- no, I didn't drink it, but I did smell it before pouring it out for the chickens, and it still smelled fresh. I guarantee that if I'd done that with a quart of pastuerized milk from the store, it would have been totally bad, rotten, even. Milk with germs in it spoils or sours fairly quickly. So I would say that is pretty good evidence that our milk supply is QUITE clean. I think you've been listening to too much government propaganda.

Kathleen

Raw pork is also a food, but if you eat it, you're likely to become very ill.

There are quite a few mushrooms out there that I imagine are quite tasty, but will kill you, too ...

It should go without saying that just because something is tasty is no guarantee of its safety or suitability!


Sadly, at least in the case of raw milk, it appears the government is correct in protecting people from the consequences of their own foolishness and/or idealism.

Ironically, e. Coli, listeria and salmonella are three of the organisms that may in fact contaminate raw milk.

I wonder how many of the proponents of raw milk have seen the filter that comes out of the pipeline in a commercial dairy after the day's milking is done?

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this is a interesting site
http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/index.html

If you read the story you will see that he was operating under the laws in that he had a herd sharing program where the buyers own the animals,
so they were getting there own milk,

MILK from there own animals,

That is legal in his state,

the GOVERNMENT does not like that, and they and they arrested him any way.

IF they don't like why do not they change the law to ban drinking milk from your own animals, OR Close the loop hold, if that is what it is.

IN THIS CASE I BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT BROKE THE LAWS THEY ARE TO BE ENFORCING

Have seen many a filter and that is why they are in there is to clean out. And most that drink raw milk on here are not drinking it from the Big dairys more likley from smaller dairys or their own milk source.

I believe this is why many people drink raw, small farm milk rather than commercial dairy milk.
I have seen the milk filter after straining my own milk through it and it doesn't look too bad. But I keep my animals clean and well cared for.
If my animals lived in filthy conditions, I guess I would rather have my milk pastuerized. Actually I think I would do without it.
Thankfully I have access to clean fresh raw milk instead.

I think the grist of this article (reading further down the page) is not whether raw milk is good or bad for you but the fact that the legal powers to be are trying to crack down on the distribution of raw milk even though in this instance it was thru legal channels. This man was running a "cow share" program which was legal in the state. He was stopped and harrassed and the location where he delivered milk to his "partners" was closed down. The money that changed hands weekly was the cost of room and board for that persons share of the cow. The article, as is common with reporting by someone who knows nothing about the real issue and who wants to sell magazines, is rather inflamatory. This instance happened in the fall and I was wondering what the outcome was of the charges against Mr. Hebron. Do a search on the forum here and you will find the original posting and links to the original story and find out the facts.

There is no answer to the raw milk/pasturized milk arguments, it is all personal preference like religion and brand of beer, but for the record I am a member of the generation who was raised on raw milk and would love to have a cow of my own, however the arthritis in the hands will not allow milking. I am healthy as a horse now and was all through my childhood. If I could find a farmer who would give me raw milk and had a clean set up and healthy animals I would take it in a heartbeat. My preference, to each his own.

I do agree with BetsyK
It is each persons choice
I found this interesting tho

Here is a partial list of things that make pasteurized milk a processed food detrimental to your health:

• Pasteurization is an excuse for the sale of dirty milk.
• Pasteurization may be used to mask low-quality milk.
• Pasteurization promotes carelessness and discourages the effort to produce clean milk.
• Heat destroys a great number of bacteria in milk and thus conceals the Evidence of dirt.
• Pasteurization impairs the flavor of milk.
• Pasteurization diminishes the nutrient value of milk.
• The milk is devitalized.
• Pasteurization diminishes vitamin content.
• Pasteurization destroys Vitamin C.
• Calcium and other minerals are precipitated and made unavailable by pasteurization.
• Milk enzymes are destroyed.
• Infants do not develop well on pasteurized milk.
• Pasteurized milk is more likely to lead to decay in teeth.
• Pasteurized milk is more likely to be constipating.
• Pasteurization destroys the creaming ability of milk.
• Pasteurization destroys the souring bacteria of milk so that milk instead of souring normally will putrefy if kept long enough.
• Pasteurization kills the bacilli in milk and causes it to decompose when exposed to air ("bacterial corpse").
• Pasteurization destroys beneficial enzymes, antibodies, and hormones which takes the life out of milk.
• Pasteurization may be carelessly done. Therefore, it is not infallible.
• Pasteurized milk may diminish resistance to disease (especially in the young).
• Compulsory pasteurization would remove the stimulus to eradicate diseased animals from milking herds.
• Pasteurization gives a false sense of security.

Doctor Seuss understood the problem:

“Things are not as they seem,
Skim masquerades as cream.”

http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/experts.html

The issue here is FREEDOM OF CHOICE.

the story says they were operating under the letter of the laws. (maybe not the intent of the law), but the intent of the law is not the law.

people want the choice, right or wrong, healthy or unhealthy,

Willow Girl used pork as an example,
Pork does not come from a store pre cooked, it is RAW, and if I want to I can eat it in that form. now personally I like mine cooked but I do have choice.

mushroom, I have a choice, if I want to go pick poison ones that is my choice, they do grow in the wild.

even when buying raw milk it is not the right of the customer to pasteurize it if they want to, all you need to do is heat it up to 161 degrees and hold it for 10 to 15 seconds or so and cool it as fast as you can, a very simple process.

http://www.kountrylife.com/content/how59.htm
http://www.answers.com/topic/pasteurization

there have been times I have pasteurized my milk, most of the times I don't.

If I have city people visiting my farm I will pasturize the milk, why you ask, part of the problem is the many modern people are so far removed from the farm, that they have little for natural resistance to "normal farm surroundings",
I think that is why kids are getting sick at petting zoos, and the like,
is that many don't have any natural resistances to nearly any thing,

it is like the factory raised pigs, some one comes in with out disinfecting there boots and the whole barn full of pigs may get sick and die as they have never been exposed to any natural bacterias that are in the soils or the air,

I am not against the pasteurizing process, I do believe that it destroys a lot of natural milks benefits, but again like willow said Have you ever seen the filter?

to cover the conditions for the masses I really don't see a problem, but I do see a problem with CHOICE, if I want to buy from my neighbor, instead of the junk they sell in a grocery store, I like the choice of skimming off the cream and not having the milk blasted through micro holes to HOMOGENIZE It, and all the cream separated out of it, and then just a touch of it added back in to meet the fat standard,

I want the CHOICE, to choose,

DocM,

Can you give an indication of the seriousness of the threat to health from drinking raw milk? How many people are sickened or killed per year, decade or century?

Is the number greater than the number who die because of sloppy Dr. handwriting (7000 per year) or the number of people killed by mistakes in medical examination and treatment (Iatrogenic Events (783,936 per year).

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A distinction that often gets overlooked in conversations like this is that "legal" is not synonymous with "right". Hitler came to power and did much of what he did "legally", as did Joseph Stalin and many other dictators throughout history. Conversely, Gandhi, Mandela and King broke oogobs of laws in their respective countries/times.

The lesson is that each of us has to decide what is "right", and if it conflicts with "legal" then we have to decide what course of action is appropriate. If that lands us on the wrong side of the law, or at odds with our neighbors and peers, so be it. To do otherwise is to concede defeat to tyranny, or to become 'sheeple'.

Personally, I don't drink milk so I don't care about being able to get raw milk. But the thought that 'government knows best' bothers me; I'd rather have citizens responsible for their own actions than have subjects obeying every dictate of their government. If I want to buy raw milk, or drink absinthe, or smoke marijuana, then that should be my choice. Even if I wind up hurting myself, that's my business...as long as I don't hurt someone else, nobody has a right to intrude into my affairs.

Or shouldn't, anyway, but governments don't seem to learn...

Let's face it DocM, you're fighting a loosing battle.

It is kind of like traffic laws, we elect the government that makes them, we support those that hire enforcement police and insist that they take an oath to enforce the laws, but yet when some granny of other person gets a ticket---Katy bar the door, it is just plain wrong and the duly sworn officer is scum.

I'm with you DocM, if you don't like the law lump it or change it! Until it is changed however, support those that enforce it as they are required to do by law and their oath.