Got Raw Milk? Be Very Quiet

Lizza · #**261** 03/27/07, 08:00 PM

I'm assuming most people actually read the original Time article? In the article it states that it is estimated that 100,000 Californians drink raw milk each week. Another study that I already mentioned said that 60% of commercial dairy owners drink their own milk raw before it is shipped for market. This is not to mention every other state that it is either legal or on the black market or home goat/cow drinkers. That's a lot of raw milk being drunk every week.

I don't mind the debating in all of these posts. What bothers me, in some of the posts, is that some are assuming that I am somehow ignorant or uninformed because I drink raw milk and feed it to my children. I assure you, I am very well read, and have read extensively on the subject. I also have been milking and drinking raw milk for two years (I was also raised on raw milk that we bought in stores by my hippie parents in the 70's, before it was illegal).

I respect the "no raw milk, ever" folks opinions but you all have to understand that those of us that are on the opposite side are also coming from an experienced educated place.

doohap · #**262** 03/27/07, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morningstar

... I respect the "no raw milk, ever" folks opinions but you all have to understand that those of us that are on the opposite side are also coming from an experienced educated place.

Kudos!

minnikin1 · #**263** 03/27/07, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrannyCarol

I quite agree that large scale raw milking is not a good idea...
However, in this homesteading forum, we are speaking of the family cow, perhaps sharing milk with a few people...
What I do want is for the government to stay out of my life, to quit legislating how I will live, what I will eat...I want to be able to freely choose what sort of milk I drink. I don't mind there being standards for milk, or labeling required so that I can make my choices, but otherwise, I want government out of my personal life.
ways of writing as distinct, interesting and a part of each of us, like our smile or our fingerprint.

GrannyCarol, your comments transcend the politics and zoom straight to
the refreshing, homesteading mindset!
And thank you for forgiving the atrocious spellers with such
graciousness.

Laura Workman · #**264** 03/27/07, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrannyCarol

What I do want is for the government to stay out of my life, to quit legislating how I will live, what I will eat, how I will raise my children (or grandchildren) and for people to see that it is not our benevolent parent, but a tyrant that will steal our choices away from us. I want to be able to freely choose what sort of milk I drink. I don't mind there being standards for milk, or labeling required so that I can make my choices, but otherwise, I want government out of my personal life.

I definitely agree with this!

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrannyCarol

BTW, as for spelling... if you use Mozilla, you can get a spell checker to check your spelling as you type. However, good spelling or the lack thereof has nothing to do with the quality of the ideas put up. Nor does good spelling make any of us better than any other. I used to judge others by things like spelling until God showed me that was just my own pride and it was not a cool thing in His eyes. heh... Jesus was not a highly educated man, nor were His disciples! He was just a carpenter's son. I am learning to find people's ways of writing as distinct, interesting and a part of each of us, like our smile or our fingerprint.

My sister, a dentist, has always had trouble spelling. A patent attorney/aerospace engineer I worked with had trouble as well. I think maybe spelling connections are just routed differently in different people. I try very hard to never let spelling influence my impression of a person's intelligence or education level because I've been wrong so many times.

And as for raw milk being for the scientifically uneducated, I got enough science education to spend a couple years as a lab tech in a microbiology lab myself, so do have some concept of bacterial contamination and growth. And I still choose to drink raw milk.

GrannyCarol · #**265** 03/27/07, 09:42 PM

Texican - I don't smoke, but frankly I don't think the government has a place telling people that they cannot do things that might harm themselves. It is their business. I'd rather not have a bunch of second hand smoke in my face, but I'm rapidly coming to the point I'd prefer that to having a bunch of politicians telling me how to live.

Our country was founded by men that said (and meant) "Give me liberty or give me death!". Today our country is run by men that say, "Give me your freedom so that you can feel secure!" (No, security is NOT possible, but tyranny is. Who keeps me secure from the government?) The way we allow ourselves to be herded like sheep today is a shame and an insult to those brave men that founded this country.

jerzeygurl · #**266** 03/27/07, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doohap

I must first admit that I've not read EVERY SINGLE post all the way through, so this may have been addressed earlier. But I'm really not familiar with HOW to pasteurize milk. I know it has to do with heating the milk to a certain temperature then chilling it, but if you could please explain how it is done on a homesteading scale, I would much appreciate it.

Thanks in advance,
doohap

place milk in stainless pot, place pot in canner full of boilin water, heat milk to 161 for 15 seconds OR you may heat milk to 145 and hold for 30 mins( stir occasionaly) place pot in sink full of ice water, change if needed

comercial dairies heat to 170 and hold 30 min

ulltrapasturized is 180 for a certain ammount of time i THINK....

jerzeygurl · #**267** 03/27/07, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morningstar

I respect the "no raw milk, ever" folks opinions but you all have to understand that those of us that are on the opposite side are also coming from an experienced educated place.

i dont care what anyone does and i will defend any ones right to drink raw or non raw., but i take issue with some of the misinformation and attitudes from some of the raw milk only crowd( not from you i mean others

)

I choose to pasturize what we drink, i use raw for aged cheeses....i milk basically out side on dirt floor, by hand so that is what is best for us.

goats are less messy than cows...cows are shedding like crazy now flies will be out soon...such is life

doohap · #**268** 03/28/07, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerzeygurl

place milk in stainless pot ...

Thanks, jerzegurl!

willow_girl · #**269** 03/28/07, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Did any of the animals that consumed this raw, dirty milk get sick?

Hmmm ... they showed no visible signs of illness, but keep in mind that different animals (and yes, we are animals too

) have different tolerances. Dogs, for instance, can and do eat putrid things (not to mention ROLLING in them, yuck!) without getting sick. That doesn't mean we could do the same.

P.S. for Doohap

Here is a helpful link: http://home.howstuffworks.com/question147.htm

Quote:

Milk can be pasteurized by heating to 145 degrees F (62.8 degrees C) for half an hour or 163 degrees F (72.8 degrees C) for 15 seconds.

The easiest way to pasteurize your milk is to buy a home pasteurization unit. I picked one up off eBay for around $20. It is an older Sears Roebuck model, probably from the 50s, and I've used it hundreds of times. (It's probably a good idea to test the temperature occasionally with a candy thermometer to make sure the milk is being heated to the proper temperature.)

homemom1fl · #**270** 03/28/07, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrannyCarol

Texican - I don't smoke, but frankly I don't think the government has a place telling people that they cannot do things that might harm themselves. It is their business. I'd rather not have a bunch of second hand smoke in my face, but I'm rapidly coming to the point I'd prefer that to having a bunch of politicians telling me how to live.

Our country was founded by men that said (and meant) "Give me liberty or give me death!". Today our country is run by men that say, "Give me your freedom so that you can feel secure!" (No, security is NOT possible, but tyranny is. Who keeps me secure from the government?) The way we allow ourselves to be herded like sheep today is a shame and an insult to those brave men that founded this country.

Carol,
I agree with you once again. I live in Florida and there are second hand smoke laws here. I don't smoke and I hate being next to a smoker however, when we go to our property in KY and go into McDonalds, I can't help but smile when I see people smoking right next to me, inside! Weird, I know, but I truly enjoy seeing anyplace that hasn't allowed the guvmint to put its jackboot on their freedom. I can always choose to move to another table, take my meal home, eat in my car or go outside if the smoke bothers me.

texican · #**271** 03/28/07, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homemom1fl

Carol,
I agree with you once again. I live in Florida and there are second hand smoke laws here. I don't smoke and I hate being next to a smoker however, when we go to our property in KY and go into McDonalds, I can't help but smile when I see people smoking right next to me, inside! Weird, I know, but I truly enjoy seeing anyplace that hasn't allowed the guvmint to put its jackboot on their freedom. I can always choose to move to another table, take my meal home, eat in my car or go outside if the smoke bothers me.

I won't willingly patronize any place where I might have to associate with smokers. I do not visit my smoking relatives, and discourage them from visiting me. I have very harsh feelings against smokers. If someone wants to smoke, more power to em, but stay the heck away from me. The only problem I have with cigarettes is that it takes too long for the cancerous agents to take effect.... if someone smoked a pack and next week their lungs were shot, I seriously doubt if many folks would smoke.

If a person wants to commit hari-kari, that's cool... just don't ask me to help with the consequences.

I support the raw milk argument. I drink it... love the stuff. But, when money changes hands, the rules are different.

In todays world, you can be sued and lose everything you own... why in the world would anyone risk their farm to sell raw milk. In this instance, the govt. might just be looking out for the general public. I wonder if the raw milk sellers/buyers are signing ironclad legal releases... so that neither one can sue the other if problems arise....

**ladycat** · #**272** 03/28/07, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texican

I won't willingly patronize any place where I might have to associate with smokers. I do not visit my smoking relatives, and discourage them from visiting me. I have very harsh feelings against smokers. If someone wants to smoke, more power to em, but stay the heck away from me. The only problem I have with cigarettes is that it takes too long for the cancerous agents to take effect.... if someone smoked a pack and next week their lungs were shot, I seriously doubt if many folks would smoke.

The point is, we don't want nanny gubmint telling us what to do.

moonwolf · #**273** 03/28/07, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow_girl

Dogs, for instance, can and do eat putrid things (not to mention ROLLING in them, yuck!) without getting sick. That doesn't mean we could do the same.

I have dogs that sometimes eat something putrid outside and get very sick to their stomach, until they barf it out. There are things in the environment that can make a dog severly ill, such as if they drink contaminated water in a beaver pond can get giardia or even blastomycosis. No guarantees about how strong a dogs immune system is compared to a human. Usually the dog can tolerate putrid more, but do you remember all the crud we used to get into as kids? and still surviving. Including my 'kidhood' of drinking a nearby farmer's raw milk.