Restoration Process For Land That Won't Perk

Hey.

Things are different in northern WI. A hole is dug and a measured amount of water is released over a set amount of time. The fellow who does the perk is licensed and his results are what determine what kind of septic system you can get a permit for. Cost for a perk test is $300-$400 here. I don't think the eight grade education has held him back.

RF

An Amish man got a license from the state of Wis to be a soil scientist/septic design engineer?

Hey.

I thought you were applying the eighth grade education insult to the local septic installer. I should have known you were talking about the Amish neighbors after you had said: "site-work contractor with a crane and a back hoe [ie, no education]." A good crane and backhoe costs around 1 million, so I guess no education hasn't hurt him either. My Amish neighbor owns 500 acres debtfree. I guess the eighth grade education hasn't hurt him either. My only conclusion is that your education has hurt you, since you have a supremecy complex that has led you to insult a lot of good hardworking people.

RF

What is the Pennsylvania (or country) law regarding when a septic permit is required? In years past, the owner of ten or more acres was not required to obtain a permit (at least in some areas of rural western Pennsylvania -- Venango County for example).

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I think things have changed alot regarding septic permits. Here in Erie County you can't even fix an existing system without permission. Of course if you are doing alot of heavy equipment work they might not notice! The house we just bought had no leach bed. Just a tank and a spot where they had brought in a bunch of fill. I think its highly unlikely that there is a spot on our entire property that would perk. There are alot of places like that around here. I think I could live with an outhouse, incinerating or composting toilet before I would pay 20K just to have a flushing toilet.

I do not intend any insult to the Amish.

We used one of the Amish/Mennonite homeschool curiculums for educating our children ['Christian Light Education']. However they are not big on college degrees.

And as such they are not generally soil scientists

They may have learned 'common sense' from their up-bringing, but that too is not guaranteed.

If it's really cheap it may be worth the expense. The add fill and wait happens quite often. But the best thing to do is hire a geo. engineer to perform the soil test in conjunction with the local "professional". If you take the time and expense to hire a geo. firm to represent you they will over rule the local guy if he is a ----. That is a big problem in some areas.
Where is this property? If it's in the mountains the local guy will usually find the soil very shallow due to the overlayment of rock when the glaciers passed. It is some times possible to dig down further and find acceptable fill. This is what the geo. engineer will study. He will profile the whole soil column and find the best place to test. Then He will tell you the system you need and you can install.

In Pa they took all the power from the local officials and placed it with the state. Some of the towns haven't figured this out yet. So it's best to get the professionals(soils engineers) in early it avoids issues.

The 10-acre exemption referred to above has some stipulations too.
The owner has to provide a copy of the deed documenting ownership of the property (prior to January 10, 1987) for which the exemption is being requested. Confirmation in writing that the structure served by the permit-expempt on-lot system is a residential structure to be occupied by either the property owner or the property owner's immediate family. There is a $25.00 fee for the application. There are 19 isolation distances to be verified by the local agency or the local SEO. A SEO (Sewage Enforcement Officer) must sign off on the application after inspection the system upon completion of installation. All necessary papers will be sent to the DEP.

Pumpkinlady,

Thanks for the informed update. It has been many years since I left Pennsylvania -- partially because I considered the state over-regulated even then. Some states still have various exemptions from septic system laws or inspections for rural acreage.

I see little real reason to be concerned about septic systems (or lack thereof) for residences on rural acreage (unless sewage was dumped directly into a stream or lake that involved other property).

__________________
Whether you believe you can or you believe you cannot – you are usually right.

This does not include flying or moving mountains unassisted or attempting to prove the existence of an “afterlife”.

Listen to Cabin Fever!

When I had a perc test done in Az, a back hoe dug down 12 feet, then the company (licensed by the state) put a specified amount of water in the hole, then timed how long it took to disappear. Then they said I had to put in 100 feet of leach lines along with the septic tank. This property will go up for sale eventually, so I didn't put in a septic system, but the certificate will help sell the property as it does perk.

I really don't think trucking in some dirt, planting grass, then testing in a few years will do it.

Call the state - do your homework or better yet, write a contract with the sale dependent upon the property perking. That puts the responsibility on the owner. Make sure you see the certificate when completed.

I don't know what the regs. are where you are at, but as a certified soil evaluator in MA, if I dug down my 10-foot minimum observation hole and I saw fill material I would have to keep going until I got to natural material and 4-feet of that at least-and yeah, you can tell the difference.

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Again, you'd have to check local regs on this but I found a good solution here in Eastern Kansas.

I bought my acreage two years ago and didn't pass the perc test because of excessive clay. I ended up building a
constructed wetland .

The "effluent" flows out of a septic tank and into a plastic lined bed filled with gravel and cattails or other emergent vegetation. Then it flows out of that bed into another bed thorugh perforate PVC pipe.

I built the beds myself with a tractor and box-blade and got the cattails for free from my pond (if you count 2 days of hard labor half buried in mud free). I planted my second bed to comfey which loves the nutrient load and gives me high protein feed for the (future) chickens.

Even with some really wet springs here we've never had problems with the system overloading. It's not a solution for everone but it sure worked for us - Good luck!