anyone familiar with 'mineral rights'???
 

My grandmother owns property in Upstate NY that we are trying to sell, someone told my Mom that there are companies finding natural gas up there.
Does anyone have any knowledge on this subject? Anyone ever earn money this way?

There are several farms in this area that have leased their mineral rights for gas and oil exploration.

Last year I decided not to buy an almost-adjoining farm because they had leased their MRs.

But anyone who does gets paid so much per acre for a fixed period. Ten years is what the one I'm talking about was for. Problem was it was eternally renewable at the will of the gas exploration company.

With that said I have mining claims, both patented an not patented. Some have some sort of lease royalty going to a railroad or a mining major. I've never had any difficulty with any of them.

What part of NY is your Grandmother's place?

We have a had a gas lease in the past, and at present have a 10 year lease for limestone, sand & gravel.

Every state's OGM law is different.

Grandma needs to retain a lawyer if she is serious about OGM (oil-gas-mineral)

It is money well spent. She could save $100,000's - no kidding :angel:

One word of caution:
At present "flippers" from start up gas & oil companies are going around trying to sign up people for leases. DO NOT have anything to do with them. I put one off my place right before Christmas.

Apparently an enormous & very deep gas field has just been discovered.

It runs from Vermont to Georgia (I think).

It’s the reason the flippers are in a lather - looking to get the lease & then sell them to the big oil& gas companies when the technology & equipment is in place to drill.

Good Luck.

veme

Yes, they were here, too and tried to get us to sign that lease.
It's true what RMLS mentioned about the contract wording - it gives the gas company far to much leverage.
AND the amount of money they are offering is a pittance compared to what folks in other states get. I want free gas - I think I should get enough gas to accomodate one household for every $$ acres I own. I'm negotiable on the number of acres..

When we refused to sign up, they tried to get more intimidating about it - sent us a letter insinuating they could force us.
Well, we found out they can, but it won't be easy and we can certainly have more say it than they gave us in their contract.
We threw it out and haven't heard a word since.

thanks for the quick replies, Here's more details. Grandma's property is Near Cobbleskill, Summit, actually Eminence on Eagle mountain to be exact. She's got three acres, mostly cleared with a 2004 fully loaded manufactured that has really never been lived in on it. Its near the top of this small mountain most of which is covered by state forest.
In reality, she doesn't want to sell it. the land has been in our family 35 years, but now she's living back on Long Island & she can't afford to keep it long term.
The property across the road is another vacant 3 acres owned by my uncle.
Grandma claims that 'they' put in a gas pipline 'down below' which means lower on the mountain. A friend told my Mom that her Dad lives in the same area & some gas company is paying him $1600 per month...I don't know the details. Getting accurate info from my Mom or Grandma is like pulling chicken teeth.
Here's what I'm thinking though, the property does us no good, nobody in my family except Grandma really wants it simply because we don't have time now to use it and if there were any way for it to pay for itself while Granny is still alive that would solve a lot of problems. As I said it is for sale, but things sell REALLY slowly up there & Granny thinks she's Donald Trump, her price is high & she won't budge.
Anyone from the catskill region know how I could contact one of these companies?

I am interesting in hearing how different from state to state this is - if it is.

In parts of Texas where oil has been a factor, a lot of places you buy no longer have the mineral rights attached. The oil and gas rights may still belonged to someone who owned it several owners back.

Lignite is a different matter.

Can they force your to lease your land?

When we were approached by an oil/gas company they were trying to get all the surrounding landowners to sign as they said they needed over a hundred acres before they would try to find oil/gas.???? Wouldn't they need a whole lot more than the 3 acres??

Dominion is the name of one local company. I can't remember the name of the company that approached us - I'll ask dh and see if recalls.

That amount is way higher than anything they offered us!
Put it this way, even if they put a well on it AND paid us royalties, their offer would barely cover the taxes.

Kelly, you can sell the land and retain the mineral rights. I live in Oklahoma, have mineral rights, and leased it not long ago, we go with 3 years. If the oil or gas company drills a well within that time they can continue to lease it, if they don't it comes up for lease again. In my opinion no one should ever sell their mineral rights. It doesn't cost anything to keep and could make you a boat load of money if something is found.

Minniken, around here there are alot of people that get free gas from gas found on their land, just has to be negotiated up front with who leases the land. We hold the first 1500', the rest is leased.

WRONG! WAY WRONG!!! You can lose a lot of buyers ,buyers which tend to be savy and with good money .You also lose Buyers who are scared of everything,between the two you wind up trying to sell to a narrow slice of the pie.
Right here now the gas companies are developing gas fron coal rights ,property without its mineral rights IS MUCH LESS VALUABLE. Its a new thing so after while this may change but its a huge diference where people are aware of it and have a choice.

Trixie, here in Oklahoma I believe they can "force pool" you. This happened in my family, my parents, brother and I all leased ours, my sister refused. They plan to drill pretty soon. We got our lease money, she didn't, it won't stop them from drilling.

We have gas wells all around us and when they hit boy you know it. They are drilling everywhere around us. The company comes in and clears the site and flattens it out. Big enough for the equipment and trucks. The convoy can have up to 17-24 semi's. The company builds a gravel road to the site and they work 24-7. We do not have our MR's and I can not find who has them.Wish I could. Then there is the pipe line that if they hit will run under ground to attach to the major transmission line. Looked into buying property for a school campus. So many lines under that 45 acres You could not build there. Yeah you can make $$$. Just some info.

Fantasymaker, in Oklahoma, you will very seldom find land with mineral rights. If there is oil or gas under your ground, trust me, you can make much more money off that then you will ever get from your land, especially if it is just a few acres.

Big Dave, a friend of mine doesn't have mineral rights either that they are getting ready to drill on. She has 80 acres of pecan bottom on a year round creek. They are paying her $15,000 a well site (probably about an acre), plus $900 per pecan tree. These are surface damages. She also put in the contract that if any truck ventured so many feet of their road they would have to pay so much a day. I think you would find even if you could find the royalty owner, there would be no way they'd sell!!

GIDDY thats true if you own the rights but if you dont how do you recover other than damages?
Lots of the west has land where the Government retained the minereal rights when the property was patented to private owners.Its a travesty of govermment trampling personal rights but its done.

Trixie-
It absolutely is different from state to state!

One more word of caution:

Take care with the attorney you chose.
Not all attorneys are up on OGM Law.
OGM & Real Estate Law is my lawyers specialty.

Even with a sharp lawyer, the Mr. & I had MONTHS of negotiations, and the deal almost fell though because of the reclamation clause in the lease.
We wanted the land reclaimed in a very specific way.

I never heard of such a thing that a property owner could be forced to lease their ground.
But then again Pennsylvania has very strong property rights & OGM statutes.

http://nelsonrun.blogspot.com/search?q=strip+mine

veme

One thing they can do now when they drill on adjacent property is after they are so deep they can angle the the drilling and drill in under your land. It's more expensive,but they still get the oil/gas under your property and there's nothing you can do about it.

Bobg

in NY you will need to have a lawyer find out who owns the mineral rights. Even if you own 1 acre they will pay you a certain amount based on what they plan on doing, the gas companies need something like 100 contiguous acres before they can do anything so if you are part if that and own 1 acre they will pay you 1/100th royalties OR free gas or both. They have a set $$ amount they pay and it is fair otherwise they change their plan a bit, you won't be able to force big $$$$ from the gas company, anyone that says otherwise is daydreaming. I wouldn't deal with middlemen at all, the gas company is the one to talk to and they aren't in the business of ripping anybody off or drilling a well 3' from your window, usually you just get some money or free gas and that's that, you never see them again. It cost them $500k-$700k+ each time they drill a well (counting all expenses involved, not just drilling) , to have it unuseable because of landwoner disputes just doesn't make sense, they will disclose everything to you and answer every question you might have. Middlemen or flippers as they are called are A@holes that try to intimidate people to make a buck with lies and deception.

I agree with everything you have said except for the part about dealing with a oil or gas company directly.
They do rip people off all the time....and we are talking 100,000's of $ here.

You are dead on correct about Flippers & Middlemen. The one I got on my kitchen porch a couple a months ago, scared me because he was so aggressive & lying at the same time.
I almost reached for my 12 gauge :hobbyhors

veme

here's something I found that might be useful to those in NY
I'm still searching around for more info.
link

here's something else NYers might find useful

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/i...als/viewer.htm

First things first. Just because Grandma owns the land does not mean she owns mineral rights. Take it from there.

Not far from where I live (Tioga/ Chemung counties, NY) several gas wells have gone in in the past year or two. I understand some property owners have made a lot of money. We signed a lease a few years ago, and they have advised us they'll be doing intensive mapping operations this spring in our area. We only have 7 acres, so I don't think we'll be getting rich, though.
If I had a large property, I would consult an attorney first.

My dad was a landowner all his adult life and so was his dad. I now have part of the land my dad left to me. As long as I can remember, he always told me, never, never, ever sell your mineral rights, and if I ever have to sell the land, keep the mineral rights. He was able to lease his mineral rights several times over his lifetime, and I've been able to lease once since I've had my acreage, which is eight years. My lease was for three years with an option to lease again, but they didn't.

In Oklahoma you can sell the land and maintain the mineral rights.....

or on the flip side buy the land but not get the mineral rights.....

anyone would be crazy to sell the mineral rights....around here the land that does sell WITH mineral rights sells fast and usually high (for the area)....if it is being sold than usually it is because A) the assests are part of an estate or B) the owners dont really care and just want to be rid of it....

my friend will put her kids thru college with the money that they have earned (and her late mother)....her mom put the mineral rights in the name of her only living grandchild when she was dying of cancer....her other daughter was pregnant but wouldnt tell her mom because she didnt want her mom to try to hang on and live longer just to see the baby....now there is a 3rd grandchild (my friend had another) so I dont know how she will handle it since the mineral rights are basically Peyton's and not his sister's nor cousin's

Rachel

Good discussion on various OGM rights in different states. I know in Oklahoma, your mineral rights (or lack thereof) are listed in the property abstract and easily located/copied/viewed- How about your/other states? As for my little piece of heaven......all I can hang my hat on is "surface damages" :(

David

You can own the mineral rights and surface rights independent of each other. I own both. I'd never dream of selling my mineral rights, however, they are quite worthless if you don't lease em to someone.

If you don't lease, they don't really care, especially if you only have three acres... they'll get enough land around the tiny parcel to make up a 'unit', and then drill. Everyone will make money, except the holdout... and the kicker is, they'll be taking gas out from under the tiny parcel... perfectly legal.

What's the problem with flippers? Know how much you're minerals are worth, and if they meet your needs, lease em!

Getting free gas rights is VERY difficult nowadays, especially on new leases. Old leases usually already have free gas rights in the contract, usually for 1 household only.

I have free gas rights. Love it. The Gas Company hates it! One day last year my line broke and I used 750M of gas, equivalent at that time... $3600! They asked if I wouldn't mind fixing the leak. After explaining 'their' truck ran over the line, they patched it!

something else............. NEVER SELL!!!
..................................ALWAYS LEASE!!!

My mineral rights are worth >20x the price of surface land!!!!!!!

I live in NY and have some experience in the mineral rights/land ownership rights. You can own the land but someone else may own the mineral rights. Believe it or not, the person that owns the mineral rights has more rights on your land than you do. My BIL has oil leases.....he owns the mineral rights and can drill anywhere on that land he thinks there may be oil. He has rights to right of ways to his wells....so on and so forth. He has a land owner every now and then give him problems.....they will actually ruin some of his equiment or such, and being the passive/aggressive person he is, just let's the law deal with it. But anyway, you need to be sure someone else doesn't own the mineral rights from who knows when. We were going to buy some property at one time that had wells on it that needed plugged. No one knew who owned the mineral rights! Then when we found out, they were dead and we had to find the family. So, my point being, just because you and your family own the land, doesn't mean you own the mineral rights. You need to check and be sure before you make any decisions.

Tracy
Southwestern, NY