Arial Pic of homestead, what would you do with the 500 white pines?

agmantoo · #21 02/13/07, 04:53 PM

This bit of info may help

Pine

– to convert price per ton to:

Price per cord → multiply reported price by 2.68

Price per thousand board feet → multiply reported price by 7.5

Hardwood

– to convert price per ton to:

Price per cord → multiply reported price by 2.90

Price per thousand board feet → multiply reported price by 8.75

You can get southeast timber prices here
http://forest2market.com/cgi-bin/db2...dex.d2w/report

Ford8N · #22 02/13/07, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Lindsay

Arial Pic of homestead, what would you do with the 500 white pines? - Homesteading Questions

This is our place in the bold blue outline, we are renting it out right now, but may be moving in sooner than we thought. The property is right at 3 acres, and as you can see about half of it is planted in white pines. We plan on harvesting them at some point in order to turn the area into pasture. I have not spoken with the county forester yet, but I plan to do so before I do anything. Most of the tree are only about 8" in diameter with the exception of the ones on the outside which are closer to 12"-14" (maybe 50 or so). Right now I believe my options include, 1. Having someone come in (someone small and local I assume for an area this small) and cut them out. I don;t know if they have any cash value or not under this senario. 2. Cut them all myself, get them to the road and have someone pick them up for pulp/sawlogs. 3. Cut them myself, buy a sawmill and mill them into boards for personal use and sale. 4. Cut them myself and have someone come in with a portable sawmill and mill them 5. Wait. If the trees will gain significant value over the next several years, I may consider leaving them a bit longer. I am trying to buy the adjacent lot to the south east, this would serve as my pasture.

What do you think? Any guesses to their value would be much appreciated.

I had two acres of property near the Wisconsin River at Lone Rock that was covered in white and red pines. They were all planted close together and not thinned so most looked like big Q-Tips and I was afraid of fire. I didn't want to clear-cut as that would look too ugly so I had a local guy cut the trees that I marked and he hauled them away for pulp. There isn't much money in that and judging by the aerial photo and description you may have the same scenario. I tried to cut out the jackpines and save the more desirable white pines. White pines do well in Wisconsin and can get quite huge. You should thin out the weak ones and save the best. You may kick yourself if you clear cut though. I would at least leave a perimeter and replant in stages. There is not much money in pulp, so if you find someone to take them away for free for you then that is not such a bad deal necessarily. I still had to take all the tops to the dump to be burned.

I did sell the property when I bought my farm but at least I left it better than I found it. My neighbors were happy since we had another neighbor that clear-cut and everyone hated him for that, which was part of the reason we sold.

big rockpile · #23 02/13/07, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Lindsay

No brush, someone must have cleaned it out at one point or another.

Looks like their close enough together there wouldn't be any brush.

big rockpile

Highground · #24 02/13/07, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Lindsay

White pine? I don't see it holding up very well as fence.

Works fine as fence rails after they treat 'em at the mill. They use black locust for the posts. A guy down the road put one up 20 years ago and it's still holding up just fine.

SilverVista · #25 02/13/07, 09:29 PM

What does the property tax structure look like in NC? Are there tax deferrals for agricultural use of the land? I'm asking because in Oregon, if land is used for farming OR FOR SMALL WOODLANDS, there is a HUGE property tax incentive. Like, my taxes on 32 acres are only about $1400 in a state that also has NO sales tax. If there is any kind of tax break for having the woodland on your acreage, then it might make sense to develop a long slow plan for removing/using the trees and substituting something else in the changeover. Also, look into whether the Soil Conservation folks have any financial benefits to offer for your woodlot.

next61 · #26 02/13/07, 10:45 PM

Buy the one to the right, use the existing pasture on that and for the sake of this world... let the trees grow! When they mature, selective harvest them!!!!
IMHO.

Silvercreek Farmer · #27 02/14/07, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

.
With that said: it never fails to amaze me when people buy one thing and then set about to make it something else. It looks like you've got the only stand of pines in the area, but you want pasture. In northern Michigan, I see people that leave the cities, buy a place in the woods and then cut every tree on their property and plant it to grass. I saw a guy buy a 40 acre parcel with a stone house and a huge barn. He had no interest in the barn, so he had it shoved down and burned. Six months later, he had the place up for sale. ---- shame to destroy something of value, then walk away from it. It's like they're bringing with them the exact thing they sought to escape! To someone that doesn't plan to run livestock, those trees could represent a sort of savings account instead of a liability as they are to you. So, before you go converting your woods into pasture, spend a few Sunday afternoons tooling around the area that is within your commute range. If you want pasture land you should buy it. in my area there is plenty of farm fields on the edge of reverting to brush that would make better pastures than a pine plantation. What's the soil type? If it's sandy, you might not get much grass out of it anyway. Check with your Soil Conservation Service or similar agency for soil maps and viable uses.

Point taken. This was the best possible property I could find, we were shopping more for the house than the land, the only requirement of the land was to be farmable. The house suited the Mrs. (big consideration!), the soil is beautiful clay-loam, and it was in the right geographic area, so we bought it. I do not view the trees as a liability as I do intend to get some use out of them. I do not intend to leave the property for quite some time. Commuting to pature land it out of the question for me even if it were only a 1/4 mile away I don't think I would do it. I get my pleasure from walking out on my back porch and seeing my beautiful pasture and livestock!

Silvercreek Farmer · #28 02/14/07, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by next61

Buy the one to the right, use the existing pasture on that and for the sake of this world... let the trees grow! When they mature, selective harvest them!!!!
IMHO.

There are actually more trees in NC now than there were 50 years ago, the old farms are going back to woodland. There is also some argument about a well managed pasture being able to create more O2 and sequester more CO2 than woodland. Once again the purchase adjacent lot is a big IF. I will buy it in an heartbeat if they are willing to sell at an even remotely reasonable price. I have not heard back from them yet.

Silvercreek Farmer · #29 02/14/07, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverVista

What does the property tax structure look like in NC? Are there tax deferrals for agricultural use of the land? I'm asking because in Oregon, if land is used for farming OR FOR SMALL WOODLANDS, there is a HUGE property tax incentive. Like, my taxes on 32 acres are only about $1400 in a state that also has NO sales tax. If there is any kind of tax break for having the woodland on your acreage, then it might make sense to develop a long slow plan for removing/using the trees and substituting something else in the changeover. Also, look into whether the Soil Conservation folks have any financial benefits to offer for your woodlot.

As of now, the taxes on the land only amount to $125 a year (most of what I pay is on the house). I believe here in NC you have to have 5-10 acres to qualify for the tax breaks. If I buy the land next door my land I would have 5 acres and my land taxes would be around $250/yr, I could probably qualify for the breaks with the land as pasture or woodland, but I will certainly check it out before I do anything, Thank you.

Silvercreek Farmer · #30 02/14/07, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford8N

I did sell the property when I bought my farm but at least I left it better than I found it. My neighbors were happy since we had another neighbor that clear-cut and everyone hated him for that, which was part of the reason we sold.

It's funny you mention that. I have already had some people ask me to cut it all down! They say it blocks their view of the valley! At any rate, right now the rest of the bottom land is planted in corn, then left as bare red dirt all winter. Permanant pasture would certainly look better than that!

tinknal · #31 02/14/07, 08:27 AM

Rail Fencing! If you are going to work horses it would make a dandy round pen. If you are handy and have the time they are perfect size for rustic furniture.

NCGirl · #32 02/14/07, 08:36 AM

There are not really any tax breaks in NC that he could take advantage of anymore.

Shadow · #33 02/14/07, 10:34 AM

White pines, these are not slash, yellow or the new cross bred pines. These are white pines and as such have very little strenth as building material. I just looked them up and the book I looked at says there is little or no commercial value. Short life span usually 20 to 25 years. Fast growing most are purchased as a live christmas tree set out in the yard after Christmas and 15 to 20 years later there is a big dead tree in the front yard. I personally have cut several and used them to make bowls, not a real good idea as only one out of six finish out with out self destructing. One national known carver uses white pine for wood carving, personally I hate it for that.
Do not use this wood for building anything more than a temp shed as it is the least desirable of the pines. You will be lucky to get any one to cut them and haul them off. Fire wood forget it you can not haul it in fast enough to feed the heater and bad to creasote up the flue. You can reconize white pines by the fact that the limbs come out in circles, iaround the trunk. They were planted as Christmas trees years ago and most were not cut as there turned out to not be really good Christmas trees.

kabri · #34 02/14/07, 11:27 AM

I too think you should thin rather than clear cut. Great shelter for animals will be left behind, seems that is their greatest value to you. Good luck!

Silvercreek Farmer · #35 09/13/07, 03:03 PM

Bump

Tsadiyq · #36 03/05/08, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Wheaton

I would like to endorse the pine analysis here - there a better trees.

I would also like to suggest that if you are considering planting new trees, don't go with just one variety, go with lots of different varieties.

The subject of which trees to plant currently fills many books. And the things we are talking about and are trying to help you with are about a thousand times richer than we can convey in a few posts.

Pop over to your library and check out "Country Life: A Handbook for Realists and Dreamers" by Paul Heiney. It has some good suggestions for homesteading on different acreage. Plus the photography is simply beautiful.

Anything you can learn about permaculture and/or agroforestry will also be a big help.

Considering the recent posts, I would recommend that you don't cut all of the trees at once. But I do think your long term plans should eliminate 95% or more of that species of tree over the next ten years.

A few more notes:

Pine is used for almost all building and heating around here.

Pine will acidify your soil - be prepared to test the pH and add lime to your soil to encourage other things to grow.

Consider non-dwarf fruit trees in the future. Get a strong central leader and then a lot of your fruit crop will be above the heads of your future cattle (and any deer that might happen into your area).

paul wheaton
certified master gardener
certified permaculture designer

Hmm - those are some good thoughts to ponder...I tried looking up that book you suggested but it appeared to be out of print? Do you know where I can buy one?

Is this book similar to others like "self sufficient life and how to live it" from John Seymour or from Carla Emery "the encyclopedia of country life" or even storey's basic country skills?

barn-apart · #37 03/05/08, 06:05 AM

You might try posting them on Log Homes On The Internet site. Some builders in or near your area may give a fair price for them.

doohap · #38 03/05/08, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CGUARDSMAN

ditto except i would probably select cut so that the ones that you do leave have a chance at growing a little larger and are more marketable.

Ditto, except that I would then ship said lumber to Northeast Texas where it would be put to fine use constructing the most pleasant B & B where you would, of course, be royaly welcome to rest your weary bones at any time.

Peace and Lumber Dreams,
doohap

just_sawing · #39 03/05/08, 07:24 AM

white pine is the choice for Log Homes
If I was in your situation I would hire a sawmill cut enough to build a shed/Barn.
Take that part when the barn is finished if codes are lax I would then have the sawmill cut me a cabin pattern. Band the wood and place it in the barn. Three months from now build.
Then repeat as your dream manifest itself.

Danaus29 · #40 03/05/08, 07:38 AM

Breast height is 4 1/2 feet up. I would thin the trees. As close as they are it is not healthy for the trees. You could plant better trees in better locations on the property.

I would also cut down any pines or other real tall trees that are within 100 feet of the house. You never know when one will fall down and smash your house. Nearly happened to my neighbor a couple weeks ago. Fortunately the tree fell in the yard, not on the house.