Help me with a "Tractors for Dummies" thread, please!

[FarmboyBill]

How Ive farmed since 1969 with no wide front end tractor, except for my Cub Farmall. How Ive farmed with a narrow front end, how Ive farmed that long without no hydrulics, no 3 pt hitch, no 4 wheel drive, n0 50hp in the engine. I put in corn, hay, milo, soybeans, wheat and oats. How did I do all that without none of the above.

[rambler]

Originally Posted by FarmBoyBill

How Ive farmed since 1969 with no wide front end tractor, except for my Cub Farmall. How Ive farmed with a narrow front end, how Ive farmed that long without no hydrulics, no 3 pt hitch, no 4 wheel drive, n0 50hp in the engine. I put in corn, hay, milo, soybeans, wheat and oats. How did I do all that without none of the above.

Experience.

You were taught how, & learned more as you went.

These folks are starting new, & want to enjoy the experience.

Different things entirely.

One should be able to raise livestock on 17 acres without any tractor at all. But - that wasn't the question.

--->Paul

[farminghandyman]

How Ive farmed since 1969 with no wide front end tractor, except for my Cub Farmall. How Ive farmed with a narrow front end, how Ive farmed that long without no hydrulics, no 3 pt hitch, no 4 wheel drive, n0 50hp in the engine. I put in corn, hay, milo, soybeans, wheat and oats. How did I do all that without none of the above.

no one said it could not be done, as from the 1920's through the mid 1960's most all farming was done just the way you described, and are doing it,

but to find good used pull type "utility" equipment is not easy to find, to much as gone to the scrap iron pile,

yes I have seen a lot of tricycle tractors with loaders and IMO there a death trap just waiting to happen, I have see enough wide front end tractors tip over with loaders, alone the old tricycle ones.
SAFTEY is what I believe the feature of wide front ends are, and he did say he was on hilly ground,

there are a lot of nice and very useful three point attachments, for tractors to day, and to buy one with out IMO is insane, as to find a pull type blade or bale mover, or mower, or a tiller, post hole digger, backhoes, stump grinders, chippers, log splitters, and probably hundreds of others,
even many formerly pull type implements are now three point disks, chisels, cultivators, even planters and drills,
the three point can expand the use of a tractor I would say 3 to 10 times,

Hydraulics, I have used a lot of old hand leaver implements in my life time as well, and boy was I ever glad to go to hydraulics, and on some I converted,
(a few of my grain drills are still hand leavers), but with bad Knees, getting on and off the tractor to adjust or to unplug an implement is not some thing I want to do any more,

and my guess 4 wheel drive would be nearly a necessity on a micro or mini tractor, if it has any horse power at all, to get enough traction to use some of the horsepower,
like said a properly weighted two wheel drive tractor will do fine, in most conditions, (4 wheel drive helps loader work, especially in snow or mud, as with a load you balance so much on the front wheels, you lose traction on the rear),

and power steering, it very nice, no it is not a necessity, but if your going to have a tractor and going to use for utility work it sure makes life much easier,

yes I have a old tractor that had a loader on it, (until 4 weeks ago)
no three point, it did have live hydraulics, (not originally tho), no live PTO, no power steering, yes it was a good old tractor, and it had a hand clutch,
and a 6 volt system originally,
you could not use a mower on it, or much of other small implements it use was limited, the Hydraulic system was only 1000 psi, and to use with modern equipment was limited, the steering was very difficult with the loader, not bad if you were "farming with it",
but I would not recommend it to any one just starting out, (unless it was just to restore for a collector item), it was a trial to keep it running well, as it probably has 20,000 hrs on the tractor,
yes it was a very good tractor in the 1950's but for the 2007, it is not, to many upgrades and changes have occurred, (it is like comparing a team of horses to the 1950 tractor, comparing most 1950 tractors to even a 1970's unit), the comfort and the ease of use, the features, have improved so much,
And if one is going to get a tractor I would want to guide them to one that they will be happy with, and not be working on it more than using it, and have a good margin of safety, and operator comfort, and will meet there future needs and desires, as they discover what they are,

[Up North]

Originally Posted by LMonty

I really do need to take care of that pasture. Woudl I be better off with a walk behind bushhog (like the DR power mower I think is the one I see advertised) for those?

You would be better off with some Goats or Pigs. Why burn diesel fuel and wear out machinery to clear unwanted vegetation when livestock can do it for you and turn the vegetation into meat?...JMO.

[4sarge]

Originally Posted by mj1angier

Here is a good site for noob tractor person- like I was last year
http://www.tractorbynet.com/

Here's a 2nd for this web site for Tractor Reviews & Opinions I bought a Kioti DK 45s and it has worked well for me. Caution is that tractor brand opinions are synonymous with Ford vs Chevy, Colts vs Bears etc. My advice is do not buy too small of a tractor for your future use. Shop around, compare brands and price. I saved thousands of dollars by shopping a dealer and comparing line for line. National Farm Machinery Show next week in Louisville, Ky - every brand will be there for a kick the tires comparison. It's FREE and has much, much, more. Went last year for the first time and would not miss it.

Good Luck

[LMonty]

Up North- I do have goats on the plan-have some on hold for me already that I'll pick up late March or April- but it is going to take lots of goats to do it! LOL

If I can find reliable haying service, then I may not need one right away, and will invest in a front end loader first. Up to DH, hes been reading and following the thread with interest and says its helping him with info he'll need. We're hoping ot purchase soe more acerage. but may be better off waiting until that is done before investing in the machinery. Or get an affordable that we just dont use on the hills. Thanks again.

[Up North]

Rambler makes a good point - Where do you draw the line between the economics of owning machinery versus hiring it done? You can see by some of the estimates that machinery investment can tally up quick to a large sum.
Some pros and cons to have custom hay made:
Pros: No investment in machinery or maintainance.
It is sometimes possible to get better hay quality this way because a custom operator can come in and stomp out all your hay in one day when it's at peak quality, because they generally have larger, more modern hay tools than a small scale homestead could justify.
The custom operator deals with breakdowns and emergencies, while you have a glass of lemonade and then go move your rotational grazing polytape or wire, LOL.

Cons: The biggest challenge with using custom operator is you lose control.
What I mean by this is the operator may have to come in and make your hay when he can fit you into his schedule - which may be past your hay's peak quality where it is getting too mature, and hence you lose hay quality.
A custom hay maker may only make 1,000 pound or larger round or big square bales - Which will mean you need a bigger tractor than a compact to safely move them, as discussed before. Very few custom operators will make small square bales at all due to labor and efficiency challenges.

Here's one that most folks lose on using custom haymakers - In an ideal livestock farm model, you will get a flush of excess grass in the spring that your livestock can't eat fast enough. If you have your own haying machinery, even a modest lineup, you can hay off 20-30 % of the grazing land, put that hay in storage. Then the regrowth that occurs will be young palatable plants the livestock can benefit from. If left unused, this spring flush of excess grass will become matured out dead vegetation unpalatable to livestock. So machinery ownership lets you manage the whole farm more effectively, as you can do a small surgical airstrike on small plots of ground a custom operator may not want to mess with. Same goes with low volume but high quality patches of second or third crop hay.

Another advantage to owning your own hay machinery is that if suddenly an opportunity to rent additional hay ground pops up, you are in a position to go forth with confidence and seize the opportunity. To pay rent for hay ground and then pay to hay it custom baled might be possible, but I would venture it would be hard to break even financially doing this.

Congrats on acquiring the Goats. Worlwide there are more Goats being milked than cows!...but of course not all goats are for miling, LOL. Developing a farm is a marathon, not a sprint. Maybe it takes a couple years for them to clear out the brush. You will be so busy once you move on the place you won't even notice a year, or 2 or 3 has passed....Enjoy the journey.