RFID ink

This is private technology.....meaning it was developed to be sold to people like me....If the government buys it they get more money....The technology is fanstastic and i will use it as soon as it comes out. The paranoia here is unreal, some very smart people have solved a problem that has been an issue of hot discussion.....reducing the cost of RFID tagging... It's a business, trying to make money by selling a new product. Do you really think the government is behind this discovery.... or could a smart man have seen the potential to take a lionshare of the rfid market and retire somewhere on a beach.

See, RedHogs, my issue of hot discussion is how to prevent rfid tagging!

I don't really care who develops the product, I'm just very aware that if it can be misused, it almost certainly will. I don't think that is paranoid at all, I think it is realistic and sensible. I'm not all THAT old, but greater than half a century of experience shows me that people do the unthinkable all the time and eventually it becomes mainstream. Doesn't make it good.

Now, using rfid on our cattle isn't unthinkable. Using it to track people is just nasty. Using it to track products and who purchases them, which information can be sold to anyone, bothers me a lot. I don't do anything illegal, I just don't think it's anyone's business what I do, as I am not hurting them! I have seen also that men want to use tracking information to control other men, to build their own power and that there will be men in this world that want to do that and have the means to do so.

How will we stop them? Do we want to be subject to the same scrutiny our cows and hogs are? What measures have you made to prevent that (since you are hot for the product)?

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~ Carol

The goverment with conjuction with the University resesntly finished a study on Polar Bear.

The results of the study has made national news and a thread here.

What has this to do with RFID?
Well Tools were used in the study. RFID being the main tool. (also setatives) The choice to use this tool was because the polar bears tend to kill humans in close reach, The enviroment in which polar bears seem to enjoy are life threating to humans. Now in the past many studies have been done by sudating and ear tagging but this study was a bit more involed. The RFID was perfect. Those doing the study were able to track ALL activity of the bears as they moved about (on ICE FLOWS) and draw conclusions as well as develope new questions.

How safe do you think those who were doing the study would be four feet away from a single 11 foot bear with 4 to 6 inch claws and an arms reach of 6 feet. Let alone The bears are not always alone. Momma bears and cubs are not that cuddly. When are you people going to grasps the consept that this type of tec. is not needed for a 4 foot range. See it works just fine as longer distances.
Think of it like a car. A person who lives in town might buy into the believe that a car is great for going 5 or 10 miles and never ever even think to use the car to travel cross country for fear that the car just could not do such a long drive. Where as a cross country truck driver would have the confidence that driving such a dististant is easy to do.
RFID does work from long distant and it can be tracked using modern science.
You people are being duped in to buying what they are telling you. Plus in most cases the people telling you have been trained not to buck the system in order to get their carrot (pension) What they don't know they can not tell you. No mistakes are made in people to go along with RFID. If the local ag guys make you feel that RFID only works at 4 feet cause that's what they have been told fewer questions are asked.

At least that level is getting something that is somewhat of a long term item. Hog is following it for a hamburger. (he's/she has owned up to it for when posting about the free lunch. Ak is does not even read the links and post where they are responding to ( females become males) so it would stand to reason that AK is more comfortable with others informing Ak'r of what he/she will think. --read brainwashed in to a pension maybe? Now hay might some day come to see that he was tricked and regret the siduation.
Granny ---you rock I would love to have you at my side --I bet you have had some life --a life where you the mistakes you made are yours and not "some ones fault cause they lead you astray" and in the same way all the good you did will be because you choose to do it. Mike and zeal do their research and it shows. I see this whole RFIS/NAIS as frogs in a beaker of water that boil to death as the temp raises up never responding to excape because it's always only one degree hotter till they die. When the whole time nothing stops them from jumping out. To me it is getting hotter, and its not globel warming.

Of course there is higher output of RFID devices and has been for years. That is how they monitor LOTS of animals. BUT THAT IS NOT what they are using on the Cattle and other animals when you talk about RFID ing. and RFID Ink Tattooing~!. what is passive what is active and so on. many different ones that are being made~!@ Facts is facts. So just saying what was put on Polar bears Does not make it that SAME RFID that is being used now on cattle~! And soon other animals. Lets not compare Apples to Oranges here OK?

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Oh my, dishes yet to wash and dry

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So, AK has anyone ever in your whole life lied to you? Have you ever been trick or fooled in a purchase.
So, AK How do you know if the RFID will be and will always be as you state "Just close range" and never switched? What test is there to find out if some how the "wrong" CURRENT tec. is subbed? How should we test.
Remember those men in the South were told that they would get Free medical care and they did ---they did for life -- They also were deliberatly given as "part of their free medical care a Sexually Transmitted Illness. In a way they got what was promised. Did they not? So what's to say some people are "upgraded" to the another type of RFID with out their knowledge?
FACTS ok. The knowledge of WHAT RFID IS currently able to do is a Given.
FACTS ok. The Proof the at times those in power have done things that are (to me) shockenly immoral. (the guy in the South is pretty common knowlege I studied it is high school)
FACTS ok. When those in power are caught (lots of cases in school books Surely you remember Watergate, Olly North......) It has been pass the buck duck and hide till it is on tape. Please take off your rose colored glasses. It is ok to be Wroung AK.
And you can compare apples to oranges when its the bitterness one is comparing.
So, if the need for NAIS and RFID is the health of the herd for ecomonic sale WHY NOT TEST THE MEAT that is being brought in for slauder?
It stands to reason that those wanting the NAIS (thru which RFID will aid them) want to know where ALL the animals are NOT just the market animals for international sale.

Sorta like a crook casing the joint. If I do not want to sell to the world and I am happy just to take care of my loved ones why worry about what I have.

kasilofhome Why are You so paranoid?? Must be heck living a life like that :baby04:

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Oh my, dishes yet to wash and dry

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I give you facts and you avoid them. Why?
Never once where I have stated known facts of what the goverment has done have you commented on the facts.
Yet you ask for fact and when given FACTs your only way out is to avoid the FACTs and attempt to belittle me. AK I have the power to choose who I allow to intimate or have a negative impact on my life. I do not need a crowd of supporters to tell me I am right or wroung ---It is called freedom. I do not give it away.
Now are you ready to deal with the fact that the goverment has lied to the people.

Mine didn't and my neighbors don't. In fact, you'd have to hunt far and wide around here and I doubt you'd find many that do have ear tags. We don't use your method, we have our own system that works for us. It's called naming the cows and knowing them by site. When I sold Bessy and Turkey, I simply marked in my notebook that I had sold Bessy and Turkey. What's so hard about that?

Ths issue is the buyer and none of us know which is which.....In the NAIS thread i posted a recent discussion that i had with an ag official on a plan the NAIS organizers are floating to allow those who don't want to tag to continue as they wish and keep their animals separate from commercial involvement.

I think you missed his point entirely or just did not understand it. RFID ink is PASSIVE. It does not transmit. Scientists tag animals with RFID TRANSMITTERS, complete with batteries and antenaes which emit a signal that can be picked up by scientists - from distances not terribly far away. That's been around for quite some time now. RFID tattoos are NOT the same, nor can they really be compared to RFID transmitters.

If you assume and product or technology can be used for the unthinkable and therefore should be fought against - imagine the absurdities we would have to go to to protect ourselves from these perceived threats.

Cattle transports! Sure, they say they are just for moving cattle, but that's just the first step. They test them with livestock - get them in, move them around, unload them - all nice and easy. Thats a FACT! But the Nazi's used cattle transports to transport humans!! That's a FACT! We've been using cattle transports for decades and they have become mainstream, we see them all the time, we're desensitized to the site of cattle transports moving all over the United States. That's a FACT! We know what cattle cars are capable of doing. The government will use them the transport humans off to dentention camps and no one will say a word of protest because for decades we have seen cows being moved in them.

To use someone's own words......... To promote the use of cattle transports moving our livestock today is to promote the use of that sort of thing for people later - after all, they proved it safe with livestock! I don't like it. We don't need more and more fancy and sophisticated transport tools. We need to be free and for our privacy to be protected. If the technology exists, you can be sure someone will want to use it for the control of the citizens of our country - for our own good, of course! Riiiigggghhhht! I sure don't see a lot of people standing up to even hold that back.

NAIS - not well thought out. Invasive, pointless, waste of money. Proctect the food supply by improving QA at slaughter houses. RFID tattoos - nice bit of technology for the large scale rancher to track their herd. I think the logical/sensible no-nais argument gets completely lost when the argument turns to "nais is bad becuse they are developing RFID ink which our government is going to use on Americans to control the population and build their own evil power." Seperate the two and keep the focus on NAIS as a questionable government program, not a biblical sign of the apocolypse.

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Ultra Lord is not afraid of chickens!

We are taught by the very system that I question. We are raised by that system and conditioned as to what to believe, what to trust, how to even think. I see that many people think I am paranoid or crazy or afraid all the time because I question the government that has given me an education, given my husband a career, given us the media what we watch all the time for information and functions as a god to most of us.

I have found that most people I speak to are actually incapable of questioning the government of the USA. If you bring up questions about what is going on and why, their minds are just not able to grasp that anything could be happening other than benign errors and they tend to believe that we are being watched over by a benign entity that has our best interests at heart. Why is it so hard for us to even ask those questions? Why do any questions about our government bring accusations of "conspiracy theorist nutcase" back?

One thing that comes to mind is the endless hours of watching TV that most of us do every day. When we watch TV our minds are put into a passive learning mode and information and ideas are fed to us, some directly, others more subtly. We learn to see others as they are seen in popular TV Shows. We learn "morality" and "ethics" and how to relate to one another in half hour segments. What is good? What is evil? Where do we learn these things?

I'm not really afraid, but I want to be determined to stand against the things that I see will encourage tyrants and discourage freedom in this country.

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~ Carol

Control the food
control the people

Govements are currently doing this.
America is currently doing this.

Now come at me for being a "conspiracy nutcase"
Challenge me to "how, when, why of my statements I dare you to seek the truth.
There is a freedom is knowledge and their is a respocablity in choices.
So far the score is me facts you feelings.

Your side of pro can not even face the reallity that you have been duped in the past.
To know history and to challenge the goverment to improve is not unamerican.

This sounds good on the surface. I have learned that they often say one thing and mean another (in other words, they are masters of doubletalk). Personally, I don't trust them as far as I can see them. I want them to put everything in writing and I want it to be written in iron clad facts, not vague possibilities.

One question that immediately comes to mind is, what to they consider "commercial involvement"? If I trade or buy a new roo from a neighbor, are they going to consider that commercial involvement? If I want to buy a calf from a friend will they call that commercial involvement? To me commercial involvement is selling to the public commercially, to them it might be buying/selling or trading with neighbors, friends, or even extended family. Lots of issues that need to be dealt with.

They have already proven to us that they have every intention of going behind our backs to force us to bend to their will. It would be naive to believe anything they say after seeing how they have acted in the past.

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The answer to this question has been answer by the courts years ago.....Is the transaction taxable. The base defense of NO_NAIS i thought was we are not in business....YOU ARE

AGRI_BUSINESS regs are very complete and drawn out..... they apply to one chicken sale or one million. A compromise is very near completion and i believe will be passed in this session of congress, the NO-NAIS has been successful in that regard. The result is a division of those own, and those who sell.

A compromise with NAIS is exactly what the gov't wants. It is a common pattern to shape the way we think and the things we will accept. An extreme or radical idea is floated, people react against it and the gov't backs off to a degree and we have a compromise. That compromise is usually what is desired in the first place and usually it's not something that would be considered acceptable before the more extreme idea was put forth.

Once a compromise is made, then it is encroached on until the original plan is finally in place.

Also I have seen in many instances where an idea is put forth, people refuse it. We are told it was put aside, but within a year it resurfaces as a done deal with a different name and a slightly different "look" to it.

So.. one way or another, we can expect to be asked, then pressured, then required to participate in NAIS or the same thing with a different name and some small changes. It's gotten to the point that they don't even bother to hide it any more, everyone is so used to these things going on they just accept it as status quo.

Whether there is a conspiracy or not, what we will face in the fairly near future - within ten years is my estimate - will make "1984" look like a picnic lunch. I suspect that the standard of living will be higher than in that book, but the level of surveillance will be even greater and the ability to adjust people's thinking greater too.

That is why I believe we are better off with some risk of illness or injury in our lives than we are with everything being made "safe" at the expense of our liberty.

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~ Carol

My mistrust of what the government says now and what they do later stems from two documents in my possession.

One is my social security card, which says on the bottom "Not for the purpose of identification"......and yet today, that is EXACTLY what it is used for......


The other is a "silver certificate" which says "Payable to the bearer ON DEMAND one dollar in silver".......they broke that promise also.

I see grey areas. My neighbor surprized us by putting in a driveway -graveled it every thing and it is NOT a small deal the bid for just cutting in a driveway was 7000 dollars.
for which we lacked but we made due with what we had and were greatful for that.

He did it because
1. He cares about others
2. He saw the need
3. He had just gotten "big boy toys" but lacked the area to practice on where he would have room for mistakes.
4. Not having spare money we surprized him with a homegrown turkey, for a special event that they had.
Is my neighbor in the business of road contruction now? Are we to contact the IRS.

I loaned out my lawn mower and I in the tool rental business.

3 elderly families gave us their birds due to age and health issues for them we provide them eggs and stew hens. Now they turned around and put chicken items in our car at church.

This is how people where I live deal with life we work together. There is so much respect for each other. I just got interupted because some guy just came over to split about 25 rounds for us and we talked and preyed ---totally unplanned but we
are going to make arrangments for me go over to his place and cook a meal at his place for a group get together. Heck I will pre clean and clean up. Does that make me a cook or housekeeper?

This MIGHT be similar to why it is not clear to Spinner. I can not speak for him but I too wonder where the line is? Some people have different lifestyles. I really had problem sometime ago with a tresspasser who was unknow to me. Handling with respect for everyone involed and turning somehow in to a win win was a challenge for me DUBIE from here helped to draft the letter of concern. Is he now in the business of negoation? To me it seem like when people have the same goals and values in life there can be grey areas.
We all have different view points and different religion and different politcal views. When questions arrive things are discussed till everyone might not have the same view (often the case) but we understand and accept that each of us are ultimately reasponceable for the indivual chooices that we each make. The main issue in the discussions is to seek as many facts and not to turn a blind eye to the possidablities of problems. Some how planning and looking where a problem can arrive prevent a bigger crisis.

In this discussion I truly find it amazing that those (AK esp) who are PRO who have read some of what I have written where the goverment HAS in distant, past and current history dupped the public. Yet, they will with out Question do as instructed by this same people. I find it illogical that we who want accountablity from the goverment and we boldly state this are informed that we must be scared.
Scared of what? Do they see the Goverment, that they follow with out question, as a bully and if any one dares to challenge the bully that the challengers are going to be harmed. If that is the case whos' afraid. AK or me. AK is the one talking fear.
If you fear the goverement so much why are you so comfortable with the goverment having such "power". Self repect is very impowering to free people in a free nation where WE are the goverment.

Yep, you hit the nail on the head. They take a few steps forward, people squeal, so they back up a little to silence the masses. Most people don't even notice that they ended up going forward a step or two, which is where they wanted to be in the beginning. They do that a few times and they've took a lot of steps forward. One day people wake up shocked and say, "how did this happen"? DUH, stop them from taking one step at a time and they won't get where they are going!

That's what I see happening when they announced that NAILS will always be voluntary on a federal level. Heck, it's been on a state level from the start, federal level was never an issue. So they act like they are giving in on a issue that never existed to begin with. I wonder how many people swallowed that one?

They are mad cause the people stood up to them. They are going to do everything they can to sneak this thru as a rider somehow. Some states have already swallowed it hook line & sinker.

It needs to be stopped cold, no compromise.

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