Wolf?

Gilberte,
Where do you live? I am in Aroostook and have never seen a wolf.
Just curious.
Chas

__________________
"The high cost of living doesn't lessen its popularity." The Gay Philosopher

"Life always looks better in someone elses photo album." Chas

Save the planet, it's the only one with chocolate.

http://www.mainehuntingforums.com

I think I remember seeing a wolf thread there.

Yes, wolves are protected and shouldn't be shot.

__________________
Robin

I don't know. What's it taste like?

doug

__________________
I Rule My World!...Tonya said I could.

If a predator is within sight range of the homestead, it will either be trapped or shot. I defend my territory just like any other predator. I protect my lifestock too.

If the predator stays out of range of my homestead, then it can run wherever it likes and I won't worry about it.

By the way, wolves and coyotes can and do lose their fear of humans. That is when they become more dangerous. Also, domestic dogs are descended from wolves.

While I admit that wolves are beautiful, I also have a respect for them just like any other wild animal. I don't trust them any farther than I can throw them. They are, after all, wild animals. Never underestimate the cunning, determination or mind of any wild animal.

__________________
I would challenge anyone here to think of a question upon which we once had a scientific answer, however inadequate, but for which now the best answer is a religious one. – Sam Harris

Being a member of a trail camera forum and having seeing people post numerous pictures of red fox, coyotes, and dogs as wolves and bob cats as cougars I can't take people seriously when they tell me they saw a wolf. People fear wolves and can make a 10 pound fox turn into one. I have seen it numerous times, online and in real life.

very true.

__________________
The human spirit needs places where nature has not been rearranged by the hand of man.

this is true. Wolves kill coyote as a result of coyotes in competition for the wolf prey, but coyotes are NOT the wolf prey as a food source. (repeating, but to differentiate what was brought up earlier)

wolves can and do hybridize, and that the species boundary is preserved by geographic or behavioural separation (wolves will kill coyotes), not by genetic separation. Its is indeed rare for a wolf to mate with a coyote, especially where there are low wolf populations such as in the United States, and a high coyote population that is competing with the wolf for it's food source.

__________________
The human spirit needs places where nature has not been rearranged by the hand of man.

There is no love lost between me and roving canines, non-domestic or otherwise. Our deer population has been decimated from coyote predation and free running dogs.

Now before anyone jumps in and tells me that the yotes' only eat the weak and strengthen the herd don't waste the wear and tear on your typing fingers. I once saw two coyotes tear into a doe giving birth in the spring. I've seen them chase deer out onto the ice where the deer splayed out and they tore into it.

Oh I know they are God's creatures and all, but me, I'd rather have the deer. They taste better

CF asked why you would kill a wolf and not marauding coyotes? There is a difference. I would agree that if free roaming dogs and many coyotes in your area, that they would need control measure. Wolves, though? c'mon. how many do you REALLY see. We're talking the gray wolf. There are way more coyotes than wolves, and you should be concerned about their numbers, but also the deer numbers are greater than ever. If you reduced the coyote population and restored the natural balance for whatever wolves to predate on the deer they need to survive, it would be a much better ecology.IMHO

__________________
The human spirit needs places where nature has not been rearranged by the hand of man.

Last year I trapped and terminated and also shot quite a few animals that were threats to my livestock (goats and poultry). Of those, 75 percent were sickly looking or clearly were diseased because of outward signs on their coats, limbs and faces. Others, normally nocturnal animals, were coming out within 30 feet of me in daylight hours and had no fear of me.

There is a major difference between a wild rabbit, squirrel and chipmunk showing no fear of me and showing no disease symptoms and having predatory animals being bold beyond the norm and/or showing signs of disease.

If you love all animals so much, I will make a deal with you. I will live trap all my problem animals and ship them to you directly. You can then enjoy their company and I won't have them as problems for my animals.

By the way, I never said I shoot all animals I see. I said I shoot all problem animals I see. If they come for the livestock or are close enough to worry the livestock then they are threats and are terminated. I leave the rabbits, squirrels and chipmunks to be fruitful and multiply so they can feed the predators naturally. However, a certain large number of predators aren't satisfied by that and are then terminated because they try to eat, or do eat, my livestock.

__________________
I would challenge anyone here to think of a question upon which we once had a scientific answer, however inadequate, but for which now the best answer is a religious one. – Sam Harris

If ever there was a topic with two opposite viewpoints, the Wolf is one. For the person out viewing nature, getting a chance to take a photograph of a Wolf traveling from place to place is an experience to treasure. Seeing one dragging a road kill deer off into the bush is a reminder of the good that the Wolf can do. We can imagine the aged stag, wandering off from the herd and being taken down quickly by a Wolf, instead of a long slow death by starving. The Wolf poses no threat because they won't come close to you, further making a sighting memorable.
However, the guy that owns the fields, pays the taxes and raises the livestock on it, cannot be so tolerent. Imagine bottle feeding several orphan lambs, raised from birth with as much attention and affection as most do their house pets. These sheep won ribbons at the County Fair and had buyers waiting to take them to their new flocks. To look out across the lush green pastures, framed in the bright Fall colors of the forests, with four steaming carcuses with blood and internals everywhere. Clearly the work of coyotes. It is a fact that when Wolves move into an area, coyotes are driven out. I hate coyotes, but to exchange them for Wolves would be like bringing rats into my house to get rid of the mice. Same problem, just a larger animal. I can't be an effective shepard, by waiting until I catch a Wolf in the act. I can learn from the recent losses, by Wolves, of other peoples livestock and take a proactive approach. I won't tell the city people how to control gang violence and I don't expect they should have a say in what goes on at my farm. Becides, there are many Wolves in Canada. It's not like they are endangered, just endangered in my pasture.
If I didn't have a moral and financial obligation to my livestock, or needed a way to reduce excess deer, I'd be a defender of Wolves, too. Just depends on which side of the fence you are on.

Funny...we have a wolf pack across the river and we raise sheep and we haven't had any problems. Not one. Not with the grizzly or cougars either. We have our sheep behind hot wire with a pair of Pyrenees patrolling. The predators seem to rather not tangle with the dogs (though I'm sure they could kill the dogs if they wanted). I chose to live out here and I know there are predators so I take all the precautions I can to protect my stock. If I do lose a lamb or two, well, that's the chance I take and the cost of doing business.

Musta been some weird alien then .Wolves look exactly like huskys and malmutes.

Adding some comments here because there are wolves as well as brush wolves where I live. We have a lot, and I do mean a LOT, of deer here. Obvious conclusion - the predators aren't keeping up with the deer.

When I was but a wee li'l kid, a pack of dogs ran into our flock of sheep and injured and killed some. These dogs were the bane of several farms in the area. Dog packs will run deer, as well, and also engage in the 'run the deer onto the ice' trick.

I will live and let live, unless the predator invades the territory of vulnerable domesticated animals that have no way of fighting off the predator. Obvious solutions -- donkeys, llamas, Pyrenees and other guard dogs; last but not least, bullets.

Wolves travel many miles and you might see one just "passing through". Most wolves are in packs. If you see one alone, there's a good chance it's a coyote. However, I have seen lone timberwolves strolling down the roadsides near where I live. Old guys leaving the pack or just out on a stroll checkin' things out ...? Suspect the former as they're usually rather scruffy-looking. I almost gave my sandwich to one, it looked so thin.

Coyotes are way more opportunistic than wolves, which tend to be very shy. We found an ill coyote in our barn once. It lay curled up and just stared at us - we put it out of its misery. What else can you do - take it to the vet? jk It had crawled into a warm place probably to die. Otherwise, probably because most of us who have farms are very realistic about predators (neither hunting them nor letting them prey on vulnerable domesticated animals), there aren't a lot of unmanageable problems locally.

When we lived in AK, we often had wolves come through the back of the wooded area where we lived. I can not think of one story there where the wolves were a problem. Mostly, you could just hear them but rarely saw them as they are afraid of humans and usually stay clear. I had a Husky, Wolf mix who was very sweet and gentle. She had been bred by a musher, but alas, my poor little Nina was much too small to race, so I got to keep her. The farms there didn't have any problems with the wolves killing livestock, but then they had a pretty abundant wildlife food source so they would have no need to venture onto the farms searching for food. Me? I couldn't kill a wolf unless it was a danger to me or my animals..

__________________
Christanie Farm...living life as it was intended

Not all wolves prey on domestic animals. If you are lucky the predators in your area will not prey on your animals. When this is the case it is a lot better to leave them alone. If you chose to destroy them they will be replaced. The replacement may prey on domestic stock.
Following is the number of predators the Bureau of Sport Fisheries and Wildlife and its predecessors killed in order to suppress damages.
Bobcats 409,217
Bears 20,908
Lions 6,175
Gray Wolf 1,486
Red Wolf 50,283
Coyote 1,363,117

A couple of weeks ago we heard a rumor that the Wildlife people released 4 pairs of wolves in our area to help with the deer population. Didn't think much of it, then the other morning I found canine prints more than 4" long. Pretty big for a dog and I followed the tracks and it went up the mountain where I have never had strays go. Went right by the chicken house and didn't even seem interested.

well said WIHH.
thank you.

__________________
The human spirit needs places where nature has not been rearranged by the hand of man.

It cracks me up how many people think that fish and game is running around turning wolves loose. Seriously where do you think they are getting these wolves from? They can't just turn them loose because they will not stay, they will try to return to their home territories. They reintroduced wolves into yellowstone and now half the dang country thinks they are dumping them all over the place. They had to pen those wolves for months before being released and some still headed north back to canada. All this stuff is generated from paranoia. I think it should be termed litte red riding hood syndrome.

................Wolves are , MORE , than the physical creature that they represent . They are Mystical creatures that embody trailts that we all admire and fear at the same time . They , kill their enemies , kill their food and protect their young with every ounce of physical capacity that they possess . Are these traits not shared by the human species as well ? Our children are OUR Hope for a continuing perpetution of our species and are therefore the logical extension of ourselves .
.................I think that there is a very select group of animals that were making a living on this contintent long before humanus erectus stupidus ever showed up and they deserve some basic respect and recognition from our somewhat enlightened society , those being : the wolf , bison , grizzly , black bear , mountain lion , lynx , etc . I'm NOT saying a man shouldn't shot\kill one of these animals for obvious reason(s) , I am saying that as a general proposition they should be preserved and Respected as recognized members of our animal society and Not simply treated as a thing to be slaughtered by any fool with a firearm who has NO conscience or reason or Permit to kill them because he feels like it . fordy...