Fence post positioning

My fences are plumb "wrong" – and I plan on keeping them that way.

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Well when using high tensile you only bind the wire at the ends. On the line posts you only attach loosely. The only posts that you would have to worry about are the ones in a ditch or creek bed. They do have a tendency to get pulled up. Thats why when using high tensile you use 6" posts 4 feet in the ground. If you are bending or breaking large posts like these. You are over doing your tensioning (250 lbs is all thats needed).

Some people like to set posts for high tensile like they do for barb. This is wrong. You set them deeper and use larger posts. But you can set them 50 feet apart. So it really is less work.

A week never goes by without a question/issue being raised here that makes me stop and rethink something that I realize is going to be of real importance on the new place. The rear 14 acres that will become pond and pasture mostly enjoys a gentle slope that will work with plumb posts but there are three "breaks" that will be a problem to close securely at the bottom. Especially if I pasture raise a few Tamworth pigs. Thanks for the input and ideas. Now I'm wondering how much elevation break can be worked into the fence line clearing rolled into a reasonably shallow(mowable) pasture drainage ditch and make fencing easier. Glen

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In post #5, the third fence post from the right in the supposedly "correct view" is incorrect. It is at that type of installation that I have a problem with the round fiberglass fence posts that I use with my rotation grazing. I typically do as most others and place the majority of my fence posts plumb. However, in these low spots, particularly where it stays moist, the fiberglass post will slowly ease vertically upward. Driving the post perpendicular to the slope corrects the problem with the post rising vertically out of the ground.

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Agmantoo
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i would say that the LINE post in a barbed wire fence are MUCH Larger than in a high tensile fence. electrified anyway. a barbed wire post has to resist the push of an animal (with cows anyway). basically the only thing a high tensile fence LINE post does is fight gravity pulling against the wire. on flat ground my high tensile post are 110 feet apart. high tensile across a gulley (if you are following the terrain) usually use a ground anchor and tension wire to pull the fence wire down to the terrain or a large post (weight) along with an pressure treated block of wood fastened tothe base of the post (buried in the posthole) to act as a flange against the packed soil to resist the wire pulling the post up.

again, i think the book is correct technically, but few are going to run post non parrallel, it looks too weird.

When I set posts, I set them in 2-3 ft concrete. (I know-expensive!)
Before I set the post or pour the bagged concrete, I take pieces of "scrap steel" or very large nails and shove (or drive with a small hammer) them into the outside perimeter of the post-hole (inside the hole), while leaving part of them to protrude where the concrete will be.

these scrap pieces serve the purpose of providing lateral support for the base of the post. The post will be MUCH more stable and not prone to "changing" it's angle of orientation.

If you're using concrete anyway, it just takes a couple more minutes to save a lot of work later on........

just my 2 pesos worth,
-Bruce-

Good points raised about the posts in a gulley or creek or any other low spot - these are always going to be plumb *and* perpendicular to the ground, and they are always going to want to pull out. She addresses those separately (the "low spot" posts).

I was wondering, do the folks advocating plumb posts do that because "everyone knows that's how it's done"? Has anyone ever tried sinking their posts perpendicular to the ground and had it work better or worse than plumb? If all this feedback is based on "that's how I've always done it and it works for me" then perhaps Gail really does have a better way.

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Here's what Damerow advocates, from a different source. Look on page 7, "Fencing on Slopes"

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Most of the issues are already covered in the earlier posts but I will also add that this is not a new concept - it is often repeated in fencing manuals from various manufacturers. As said, it depends on the type of fencing, the intended use for the fencing, and the elevation changes in your fenced area. It also depends on the type of posts you will use, the soil conditions where the posts will go, and how much maintenance you want to do. The low/creek issues help illustrate the point that I think Damerow is hinting at but it really is more serious on a signifiant slope.

In many applications, line posts are not generally designed to carry much stress/strain relative to corner posts. However, a line post on a significant slope CHANGE relative to its neighbors WILL incur additional stress, as will the fencing affixed thereto. The need to install the posts out of plumb will depend on many of the aforementioned factors. However, in areas of significant slope change, one may need to consider that particular line post as a corner post and install the appropriate type post to support the stress it will experience. Essentially, the fence is changing direction as in a corner and thus will need extra support there if the elevation change is so significant.

If you are using t-posts that are simply driven into the ground with a pounder, you can put them in at pretty much any angle. Augers, as mentioned, may or may not allow you to do this. But think of this - a 90-degree auger parked on the slope parallel to or within the path of fence line WILL drill 90 degrees from its current position - which would NOT put the post plumb - it would put it as Damerow describes. The only way it WOULDN'T do this is if you dug out a level area where you would park the auger adjacent to the drilling site or perhaps occur if you parked in a position perpendicular to the fenceline/path.

Posts depths will always vary based on their intended use, the type of fencing affixed thereto, your soil conditions, your weather conditions, the type of posts used, and the amount of maintenance you wish to do. A properly placed post with sufficient depth will NOT be pulled over by gravity no matter where it's placed, as long as it was appropriately designed, placed, and maintained.

Now all that said, I have mildly hilly terrain with metal t-posts as line posts, larger wood posts at the corners, and 4 lines of electrified tape fencing. It is in a rectangular configuration. The slope changes are gradual enough that I did NOT INTENTIONALLY place any posts perpendicular to the ground (out of plumb) but some did end up SLIGHTLY out of plumb as we adjusted the fence during installation. Some may need to be redriven to help this but we were mostly able to place the posts a foot or two away from the initial spot to ease this issue. Again, this is because of the GRADUAL elevation changes and the intent of this fence is to DETER animals from contact so the posts do not have to endure leaning or stress from animals beyond an initial touch to get a shock. Of course that's all dependant on a WORKING charger with sufficient joules...

Hope that helps.

Thanks you guys. I need to put some permanent fencing up for my goat this spring, she is ripping up the fencing I have now. My yard has 4 ravines, so there is a lot of hills and dales.

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I always made a point that when ground changed greatly in elevation you used multiple posts with bracing, just like when a fence changes direction on the flat. How does that boy on here call it "It ain't rocket surgery"---just fencing.

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Posts should be vertical.

In reference to the low place fences, whenever we get to a dip in the fence (more than a foot vertically out of line between posts, we let the wire go straight between the posts on each side of the dip, and then add another wire or two to bridge the gap underneath it. This way the tight wire won't pull the "dip" post out (up). In other words, if we are installing a 5 strand wire fence, we will end up with seven strands over a gully, the regular five on top and two added just where the gully is. With a woven wire fence, let the wire go across the top and cut a piece in half(like ripping a board) to bridge the gully with.

We always cut the top of the posts off 6 inches above the top wire after the fence is finished, so variable post height isn't a problem. Also, you should cut your post tops at a 45 degree angle to shed water, so it won't rot as quickly.

RosewoodfarmVA - good tip on preventing rot on wood posts. Do you cap them to avoid impalements then? I would think a plastic cap would keep it from rotting but then the 45-degree angle cut could be hard to fit... A large-diameter wood post that isn't cut at a 45-degree angle wouldn't need a cap to stop impalements but would need something to help the rot... Catch22

have built lots of fence woven and barbed have used all kinds of posts have cut some at a 45 and left some straight across not sure if it helps or not with rot. there are some post in our line fence thats been there since early 50's thats cut straight across so i guess thats every ones opinion on that.

That explains my bias, then. While I have built quite a bit of fence, I spend a lot more time working on grape trellis. You sure don’t want to lean them suckers over!

Sure seems that way to me, too.

Ok, that makes sense, I haven’t put any in on severe slopes.

All of the above is moot. Ground moves. In a few seasons they will all lean anyway!!!

Jefferson, seems that the utilty power line poles that are line poles in a straight run stay in place very decently. I have no problems with post that are on relatively level ground and I do not witness any significant movement provided I have good corners. Only with vertical pulls in wet areas do I observe movement and that is as stated previously, upward. I take a lot of pride in my fencing and have been known to reset fencing that was 1200+ feet in length as the posts were not in good alignment due to errors in the original layout. I want my fence runs to visually appear gun barrel straight.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

agmantoo; You should see the power poles in my area. None stand straight anymore. You want rifle barrel straight.....go for it! I'm a bit on the lazy side.

I should correct that. I'm a LOT a bit on the lazy side. I run a string from corner to corner, plant a post and am happy with the results.

Well, to those poor pitiful souls among us (like me!) who haven't ever put in a fence or even seen someone else do it, it may as well be rocket surgery! :baby04: That's a great saying.

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