Decline of Countryside Magazine

"I challenge the rest of you to do the same!"

Challenge accepted. I just sent in a submission on the three Rs (reduce/reuse/recycle). First time I submitted something in about a year or so.

So if we do submit a goat, sheep or poultry article, is there any guarantee it won't be hijacked to one of their other magazines?

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www.glimmercroft.com
The basic message of liberalism is simply: The true measure of a society is how it treats the weak and the needy. A simple Christian message (Matthew 25:40). -Garrison Keillor

Gee Ken, I always enjoyed your articles. I think I remember one you had about raising beef on grass... I say, I think because it must have been a few years ago. Your articles were always very professional.

So in other words,if I go back andcopy/paste everythign I ever wrote here or on Lusenet and save it, it isn't mine anymore and I could be prosecuted for what I wrote if I publish it or go and submit it in an article to some other magazine? That's bullocks. Theft. Legalized theft, maybe, but theft all the same.

Also, I don't recall there being this rule when we were on Lusenet, but when the forums changed hands, they apparently gave it all to Chuck, so apparently this is also retroactive, i.e., even though we believed that we owned what we ourselves had written at the time, and weprobably did own it at thetime,it has sincebeen given away to soemone else without our permission and is no longer ours?! That doesn't quite make sense to me. And any way you cut it, legal or not,this whole thing reeks of plagarism. However, certain persons very cozy with the Belangers haven't exactly had any scruples or issues with plagarism now, has he? (Not Chuck,BTW)

"So if we do submit a goat, sheep or poultry article, is there any guarantee it won't be hijacked to one of their other magazines?"

Ask either dbelanger@tds.net (publisher) or annemarie@tds.net (editor of Countryside).

"However, certain persons very cozy with the Belangers haven't exactly had any scruples or issues with plagarism now, has he? (Not Chuck,BTW)"

You are obviously referring to me, so would like you to provide some specifics. What is it I have been plagarizing?

For the record, as far as I know only the name of the publication (Countryside and Small Stock Journal) is copyrighted. The contents of the publication are not. One of the reasons jd almost never used material (e.g., articles) from other publications they did not own themselves.

Countryside and Small Stock Journal are still copyrighted as seperate periodicals. They are just jointly published without a differentiation on content. Maybe ten or more years ago the Hearst Corporation came out with a slick, yuppie publication titled Countryside. Jd immediately sued for copyright infringement and won. I believe settlement was cash and their being allowed to continue to use the name in a certain format. However, publication lasted little more than a year. Biggest problem was when people heard it went out of publication many thought Countyside magazine was the one and didn't renew. Jd had to contact those who didn't renew to explain the situation.

Any time you submit work in an on-line forum and such it goes out into that electronic ester. Virtually impossible to maintain any copyright on it. If that is a big concern for you then at the end of your input put a statement such as "The contents of this message is copyrighted by the submitter and may not be further distributed without the express written permission of the submitter" or such.

Ken, count me in. I sent in an article on raising quail. I'm always interested in reading 'how to' articles from folks about almost anything related to self sufficiency. I look forward to the articles by you & Terri in up coming editions!

BTW...I've written for many different publications. Countryside doesn't pay...I know that going in. My choice to give away my work. If it helps someone else or provides some entertainment then, to me, it's worth the effort. I've never seen anything from there turn up in other pubs.

I've sold manuscripts to various publishers, often for a paltry sum, only to see my hard work reprinted several times over in other places. I glean no additional compensation for my efforts. My fault...I sold the rights, therefore I have no say in how / where the information is used. That's the publishing game.

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CJ

Why doesn't the author own the copyright? You give or sell the right to publish an article without giving away all of your rights. There are a lot of different rights involved.

That's incorrect. Written words are owned by the writer until/unless the rights are given away, sold or otherwise transferred. You might not be able to keep the article from being illegally republished but that does not end the copyright. If something you own is published without permission you have the right to take legal action. Usually, asking to have the article removed from the website along with a link to the copyright laws is all it takes. Copyright is not lost because something is published on the web.

These links might be helpful.

http://www.copyright.gov/ U. S. Copyright Office

http://copyscape.com/ Copyscape

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Robin

Thanks, Ken! As always, your reply was level-headed and informative. I really admire that!

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www.glimmercroft.com
The basic message of liberalism is simply: The true measure of a society is how it treats the weak and the needy. A simple Christian message (Matthew 25:40). -Garrison Keillor

I've given my opinion previously on why I think a nominal fee of $75-$100 would be appropriate for articles, especially to those who can submit articles that require little if any editing. This would interest "professional" writers whose time is used to generate income.
Some people, like myself, both write and farm and those circumstances could be beneficial for Countryside, since a profession writers material is presumably printable (but not always) without major editing, plus the experience as a farmer still gives it the reader written authenticity.

I'd like to point out to previous posters that when you submit anything to any publication, you can tell them what (copy)rights you are offering to sell. It may be one time, first serial, first North American rights, etc. It may or may not include electronic rights, depending on what you have agreed to. So for those interested in having something published in Countryside (for payment of for free) but not one of their other publications, you can make that a requirement which they will consider when they decide if they will accept it or not. If they decide not to take what you are selling, then it won't be published.
On another point, I'd like to note that if Countryside buys your rights for its use (one time rights, not ALL rights), they need to inform you if they also wish to publish it in another publication and come to an agreement on additional compensation.
I personally won't write for one of my local newspapers because they believe they buy all rights and will sometimes print it in several of their papers. I will not sell all rights usually, unless the compensation is significant enough for me to give up any future rights. I'm not talking big-time money here, but rather the principles of copyright.
I've written for Country Folks (a New York based agricultural trade publication covering the Northeast, with several other titles) for a number of years (very little recently), and was also editor for one of their publications for a few years. When I first started there, they had NO concept of copyright laws. I got them to realize some of them, AND got them to offer 50 percent of the original fee when they published in a second paper that they owned.

Just because someone is publishing doesn't mean they know the laws. So, if you want to write, you should become familiar with them to protect yourself and your creative interests. It may also be an opportunity to "enlighten" a publisher, or perhaps to put you on their banned list!

A final testimonial. I wrote several articles several years ago for a national horticulture trade publication. The publisher noted that the article was used by a commercial enterprise that had been mentioned in the article by the business's marketing department. The publisher sent them a stop and desist letter saying the business had infringed on copyright laws, and that they should destroy any remaining copies of the sales flyer that contained the article. The publisher also sent me a copy of the letter they had mailed to the company.
I zipped off a letter saying I was the author of the article and they had also infringed on my copyright, since the publisher owns the copyright of the format of the article, photos, etc., but I retained the republishing copyrights. I stated the fee I wanted from their use of the article, and got a check within about 10 days, as they knew they had indeed infringed on the copyright laws.

One more final note! I will post on here to help individuals or even many if the case is such. I think it is a give and take. I give my experiences and you give yours and we all end up better for it. But, I will not give away writing to almost any publication. They are publishing to make money...maybe not a lot, but it is a commercial venture. Those who help to make it a success should be compensated in some way. As farmers we also try to make a living. If we take the time to write for a publication, we should also be compensated for that time and experience.

Of course, if you want to support it as a charitable organization, go ahead. And my address is..........
Ann

Most folks don't understand that copyright is not something you have to "apply for", like a patent. If you state it's copyright protected, then it is.

Most of the information we post here is not really "new". Maybe if you've designed plans for a doowop-thingamajig, you have something you can ask to be paid for.
But most of the time we're just repeating what we've heard or seen elsewhere. Or telling our experience with things that have been tried by thousands of others, as well.

Publishers no longer have a stranglehold getting words to the public eye. The inevitable outcome is that the value of our precious words is going to go way down, anyway... Why would someone pay you for what they can find elsewhere for free?

The point I'm trying to make is that you should think about your post before you put it out there. Decide if it's a new idea that has value before you give it away. simple.

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Hut on the Hill Farm
http://www.hutonthehill.org

An analogy....

I belonged (still do, though I'm not as active) to a piano discussion board.

Through some of my contacts in the industry I found that while the industry guys didn't participate in the board very much, it was monitored on a very frequent basis by most of the manufacturers and by most of the major dealers.

So if a message baord achieves a certain level of populance and popularity, I think folks in the biz will monitor it. I think they will bounce through it looking for story ideas and current trends.

The wonder of the net is you never know who might be reading your stuff....

I've been following electronic forums since the 80's (anybody an old compuserve user? Any BBS users?)

My impression is that if you want to keep the copyright to your stuff and have it published on a forum, you will need to work something out with the publisher. Otherwise, you are giving something to the publisher. That publisher then holds a legal, technical copyright. And so do you. You can say who can copy your words and so can the forum publisher.

Another way to look at it: you submit one copy of your stuff to the publisher with the intent that they publish skillions of copies using their hardware, software, networks, etc. You have no idea how many copies will be made, nor what expense the publisher will incur to do the publishing. Then look at the top - there's a google banner. The publisher makes a nickle a click or some such. It is possible that the publisher might earn more than is paid - or, for most publishers, they pay more than they earn. You submitted stuff that they get to re-publish as much as they want and you know that they could, potentially, make money. If you are not cool with that, you really have to keep your valuable wisdom to your own site or work a deal with the publisher of which site where you want to make money. Of course, your income could be something like four dollars a year if you post a lot. Not really worth messing with.

Having some experience in managing this sort of thing, I have to say ---- GOOD JOB CHUCK! I HOPE YOU MAKE A COUPLA BUCKS!

If anybody here wants to make money with your words, then do so. This just ain't the place.

That said .... if a writer wants to harvest comments from a forum in a for profit venture, then can, as long as they quote the source. In this case, the source would be homesteadingtoday.com. A generous writer might ask permission of Chuck and/or the poster. Of course, if you try to quote more than a sentence or two, you could get in trouble without permission.

Plagiarism would be something like me copying and pasting somebody else's post and saying that I wrote it from scratch.

I think the most important thing here, for me, is: I want to learn more. I feel that a magazine will teach me stuff I didn't know I wanted to know. And in a format that is faster to digest than cruising forums and/or google. And if I spew out all that I currently know, smarter people can use that information to come out with better ideas or tell me where my thinking went sour. By sharing what I know, I learn more. And the more people do the homesteading thing, the more that is right with world (in my opinion). So if folks come up with ways to get more homesteading info/knowledge to more people it has to be all good. After all, I don't see Chuck or the CSM folks raking in millions. Probably more along the lines of not even earning enough money to qualify as "poverty".

I advertise in and read Countryside Magazine and get useful info from most of the issues. If I can use one idea and make more profit from my farm/business or make my work easier then the subscription price is worth it.
Any reader who thinks the magazine is going down hill probably hasn't submitted an article. It seems to me that Countryside Magazine is what the readers make it when they share their experiences and ideas.
I have also sent an article in to Countryside Magazine so my money is where my mouth is.

I read and have all the back copies from way on back there of CS. I let my subscription lapse after JD left. It seemed to flounder a bit and then took a turn to the different. MEN was the same for me. Today, it's just a shiny yuppie magnet. I'll never get rid of the old CS or MEN's I have. Way too much valuable information. I remember when OG lost Mike McGrath and the editor changed. They lost my subscription too. There are just a lot more "wealthy, retiring baby boomers' out there than there are plain old country folks who like it to stay that way.

The editors have to make money and publish for a segment of society. I'm just not in that segment. No offense to the qualilty, just the direction. I can't afford fancy nor can I afford to waste my time day dreaming about something i'll never be able to own. I'm happy with what I have and the internet.

Mary

It would be extremely difficult for a monthly or bimonthly publication to do, but I have noticed The Tennessean (Nashville) has become very reader interaction oriented lately. If they are working on a story they will request input. On published articles they allow comments to be posted on them. I suspect at least the article writer follow them for feedback.

Yeah, that would be plagarism, wouldn't it? Even if you trimmed it up a little or switched words around a bit.

Ken, I'm not even going to bother tracking down evidence. That fact that you'd challenge me to do so says quite a bit. You know full well that you were very heavy handed as a mod and simply deleted your opposition, whether what they were complaining of was valid or not. You also know that you used what forum members wrote to make your articles in Countryside, whether they were quoted word for word or not.....and then people are amazed at how knowledgable you are about homesteading....

Back to Paul, it isn't about the money. It's about integrity and respecting other people.

yes but to register a copyright costs roughly ten bucks on the federal level
I have a few

Rebekah, I don't understand your hostility. That was years ago and I remember well Ken ASKING us all to write things on a thread if we had ideas for his article.

The way many treated Ken and the old forum was what led to it's demise and turning it over to Chuck who worked hard to keep us all together as a group was something they didn't have to do. They could have just locked it down and walked away.

EVERYONE was given an opportunity for a very small fee to obtain a COMPLETE copy of the old forum, including the spin-offs that wanted to be included. I still frequently use mine.

I always enjoyed your contributions to the old forum. I was sorry to hear how your life has changed so and do hope things go well for you.

This may be a very naive question, but could we start our OWN magazine? I could see regular articles by names such as Irene and Haggis, a regular feature on startup homesteads, the best places to live, homestead chores, outbuildings, gardening, animals, community etc.

With a 16,000 member strong community, that should be enough to get subscriptions going, as well as attracting significant advertisers.

Any deep pockets out there?

I don't know what the failure rate is for new periodicals but I suspect over 90% don't last more than two years.