Reason for land being so cheap
 

Everyone is always looking for cheap property, the following is a true story yet to be fully resolved.
The sister of the man who bought a house from us last month came by and wanted advise on her home she and her husband bought last year. Its a great house four years old, with five acres and was a steal. Her mother works in realestate and has for years and she looked at the property and it was a good deal she did a market analisiy of it and it was about 30 to 35 percent under valued. She advised them to get a survay and title insurance which they did. Got their morgage, moved into their new home, everything is great untill a dry spell and no water. Seems the spring the water pump is in ran dry, ever try to live in a house with no water. OK so it will eventually rain or we will get a well drilled. The driller says it could run as much as $10,000 to get water and he can not guanrtee it because in the area he has drilled several wells that did not get good water at any depth.
So a pump in the creek, buy drinking water and they do not have land that goes to the creek and the people that own the land the creek is on do not want a water pump and line across their land.
Then the road into the house gets muddy, but the county will fix it. Nope its not a public road and the bottom really falls out it gets so bad even a normal four wheel drive pickup will not make it and its a mile to the county road. So they go to the other two familys that use it and ask if they want to share expense of fixing up the road, no and they do not want anything done to the road its theirs and the new home buyers find they have no access or premmission to use the road.
Now the price is not so good. They hired an attorney, after a couple of months he quit or was fired do not really know which, they have hired another one he wanted $3000 retainer, and is not sure how it will come out in court.
The title insurance is good, its for the house and the land they bought, the survey is good its for the land and the house that sets on it. Seems they just do not have a way to get to it and no water.
Most of the time there is a reason for anything being so cheap.
My advise was to look at it real close and see what it will cost. It may cost them everything they have invested plus the lawyer and if they have to walk away and they may it will ruin their credit.
I will post results as they happen if anyone cares

wow. Stories like these make you think!

Keep us informed!

That's interesting.

I'm not sure what the lawyer is for? Who is there to sue, and why? They looked at the property, & bought it. End of story.

Are they sueing a neighbor for access to a public road? Nice way to come into a neighborhood, sue the neighbors. Are they sueing the previous owner, why?

--->Paul

I think there's more to this story than you're being told.

A four wheel drive can't get thru the road, yet two other families use it? Do the two families own the property the road goes through?

How was a house ever built in the first place if access isn't allowed? How'd they get the material in?

Why not put in a cistern and have water hauled when the spring isn't running?

Putting some rock on the road and "fixing" it are two different things. Maybe the neighbor is afraid a bulldozer will come in there and make a huge mess. My road is a public right-of-way and the person who owns the property let's me rock it all I want, but she says not to widen it even one inch. It's hers, and I'm ok with that.

This sounds lik eit will get interesting. :viking:

If they have a survey, they also should of got a copy of the neighbors to know if they have an easement for access.
If your landlocked, as we are...not checking the easement status before buying isn't too bright!

We just bought our place, for 1/2 its value. We also got the well and septic inspected! We had the aquifer checked into. We checked the easement for our access. We got a copy of the survey and of the deed. We put a clause in the contract that if the well, aquifer, or septic or easement didn't check out all good, we could bail. Plus we had a lot of other conditions. Buyers have to do their homework. And you have to pay to get the main stuff checked out. Never rely on the seller for anything. Dont rely on anyone. We did almost all the work and paying ourselves to be sure we were getting what we wanted.
It cost us a total of only 450.00 to be sure we knew what we were buying. Thats a lot cheaper than not knowing and paying later!

And you can dig and set up your own well, even a deep one. Its not easy but its a lot cheaper than hiring someone else.

A cistern, perhaps?

We have met people who have them. They often get the cistern filled by a water truck.

access
 

I think in my state that you have to be allowed a right of access. The courts can decide if a deal can't be worked out. However, that access may not be where you want it.
Yeah, sounds like they or a lawyer did sloppy work when they were considering buying the place.

Unless that house was the last piece left off of a larger acreage, they have to have a right of way from the people who originally owned the land. At least, that's the way it is in NY. Tell her to look at the deed. More than likely the road they are using is the right of way.

The water is not really a problem. Build a cistern in the cellar and get a water truck in once in awhile. May not need it too often if the spring holds up for a good share of the year.

Doesn't sound like a good situation, though.

Jennifer

It sounds like they should have spent their money on a backhoe, gravel and a water tank. Those problems are all fixable, but so many people don't understand the concept that they can do it themselves. They are used to roads magically being repaired and water flowing endlessly from pipes.

Jena

In the Virgin Islands and in Northern Arizona and New Mexico, cisterns are filled with what little rain water is available, supplemented occasionally with hauled water. Rain gutters are made of polysomethingplastic and are enclosed tubes that take rain water and snow melt to the cistern. The more roof area, the more runoff into the cistern. (Add a wrap around porch? more water) It is not anywhere near as expensive as a well might be. If they really want to spend, the cistern can be (and probably should be) covered with ceramic tile. They can even run their sometimes dry spring water into the cistern.

In other words, it was still a good deal. :hobbyhors

Just proves the mother was a lousy real estate agent...should have checked on access and water *especially* because it was for relatives. Egads, she needs her license pulled. They may have some recourse if these weren't noted on the disclosure form. Which I hope they had??

They can call a different well driller and get someone who witches. They can get a water storage tank (not cheap) and use that. They can build a pond, or a cistern, or get water hauled. As far as the road goes....in some states, there can be landlocked properties (legally) depends on the local statutes. They probably do have legal access considering the house is so new....as far as the road itself goes, there is nothing stopping them from having a contractor out for a bid and a discussion about what it would take to fix it properly. Usually it's just a drainage issue and perhaps all that's needed is a ditch cut to take run off away. IOW, pick an experts' drain about solutions, and then do it themselves.

If the mother was so sharp she should have known that something that is "too good to be true" could not possibly be-there HAD to be a hole in that particular donut. JMO. I hope her errors and omissions insurance is paid up, she is going to get sued eventually.

I think they are just trying every thing to solve the mess they find them selves in. Me and the wife have bought fixed up rented and sold property for the past 30 years and I see no way out that does not cost more than the property is worth.

water and land locked
 

There is only one well driller close enough to consider, I have checked on this in the past my self.
Seems the reason for the land locked situation is in the past the land was deeded to a family member and because of a falling out when a family member perhaps the one that owned the land orighinally died. This is where a lot of the problem lies.
As for the repair of the road, the road is over a mile up and down steep little hills cross a couple of wet weather creeks, ditches what ever you would call them. Not any real road prep work and will cost a ton of money. if and when they get permission.

The buyers should have checked out the road and water situation before they bought. No end to stupidity in this world.

In many states it's illegal to sale landlocked land. They might have recourse against the sellers. Also, do all states have legal requirements for disclosures? I've heard of people who had to return money and/or pay for repairs, etc. when they didn't disclose all the problems with a home or property they sold. It can get very complicated. With a good lawyer, they may end up forcing the sellers to drill a well to provide water, or possibly return all the money so they can buy elsewhere. Many states have a series of "good faith" laws.

Ahhhh it's getting clearer now. I ran across something similar. I'm assuming that the other folks that are using this road won't let them fix it up or give them an easment because they consider these new folks as tresspassers. I've seen this in rural communities (where the family tree doesn't fork often if you know what I mean). Afterall, that particular chunk of land has been owned by 'Hatfields' for generations. So what if uncle Luke decided to sell.....it's still HATFIELD land! How dare someone else buy it! As far as fixing the driveway.....that's going to be up to ya'll. Don't expect any help from the other people....you won't get it.
Unless your particular state has some sort of law that guarantees an easement to the land you are throwing good money after bad on an attorney. The attorney ought to be able to tell you if there is such a law. If he can't then you sure as heck don't want him for an attorney!
The cistern suggestion is a good one. Fill it up from the spring for dry periods. Other than that, about your only option is to put it on the market again and hope that someone else can make a go of the place. Live and learn.

they may or may not have a right-of-way across the other's properties... a day in the courthouse records room usually will tell...

even if they 'do' have legal rights, they may not have the right to improve the road over the owner of the road's objections...

one of the main reasons for land being cheap, is neighbors... if Hannibal Lector lives next door, the property'll probably be inexpensive :rolleyes:

Title Insurance
 

You said the title insurance was good, a policy should mention ingress & egress, access to the property. It will show the easement and if there isn't one there is an exception on the policy stating the lack there of. They may need to look over their policy again.

They will have an easement by prescription and/or necessity regardless of any writings in the courthouse. The problem seems to be that "they" wanted the neighbors to chip in for the cost of repair or improvement. If the neighbors do not use that access, then there is no reason for them to want to improve the access. "They" can still make the improvements, however. I have seen nothing that a culvert and crushed limestone (rock) won't fix.

It was still a good deal. Even if they paid fair market value for their piece of paradise, "they" would still need to make occasional repairs to their access. The ground is their homestead parcel. It is not a lot in the subdivision. Homesteading implies doing things yourself. It also implies "being" a good neighbor. There is no requirement, however, that those neighbors, for whom you will be good, must reciprocate.

Grading the access will not break them. Crushed rock by the ton is not out of reach. Culverts are not outrageous. The cistern will run them about 1/4 the price of a small basement, not counting the ceramic tiled floor and walls, If the cash to pay these things is not handy, banks make home improvement loans -- especially when the house is worth considerably more than any mortgaged indebtedness. Still a good deal.

This is why i don't understand the need for lawyers. They are spending money on the legal system, when they need to be spending it on their place....

The water is just a non-issue entirely. A spring will go dry, that was the exsisting water source, it is how it was, there isn't anything to disclose. Just total non issue.

The drive, they need access of course. I can see a lawyer there at this point, but they probably messed up to begin with & caused some friction?

Only other thing is one or more of the neighbors wanted to buy the land cheap, & are hostle now & trying to close down the road on the new folks. That would be wrong.

Friend bought a house, 3 months later, oh what should I do, a couple windows stick, a few window cranks don't stay on, a carpet is a little loose....... Wondered if he should take to the Realitor, get something from the previous owners......

Sheez. Deal with life fer crying out loud! And this is a fairly level-headed friend!!!!

--->Paul

If it were my land, I would want an above-ground cistern that was fed by the roof downspout. And, yes, bring in drinking water when the spring runs dry. Laundry can be done in town, cistern water for bathing and flushing, drinking water in jugs.

I would also pay attention to the watershed: can a pond be built? Or, would the spring produce better if those willow trees were removed? The only cost THERE would be for a chainsaw!

I would also improve whatever part of the road I legally could. My Aunt had a driveway that was bottomless mud in wet weather: no fun!

As for access, *IF* the neighbors gave them a hard time, I suspect they could claim an easement through adverse possesion, but that would be something to ask the lawyer about. Different states have different laws.

You said they got a mortgage - did they get an appraisal? An appraisal SHOULD have shed light on some of these issues - at least the access issue... The title report should have found any easements recorded on this property but not necessarily one next door (like the ones with the road). Would check to see if any easements have ever been recorded on the other properties first. It's possible that there were never any easements and the neighbors were all related or good friends and let them use the road. There also could have been a falling out between them before the house sold.

Just bought a 550 gal water tank new for house -- 400 bucks got a 225 used in metal cage for 40 to haul water in. rock is what? 100 a load in bulk? make a deal with a local hauler for a load a week for 3 months!
My land was cheep too, but not asking neighbors to fix road i use and they dont!

You don't say what state you are in, but in NC, land cannot be landlocked. The neighbor has to give you a right-of-way. Also, I don't for one minute believe a bank or mortgage company lent money on a land locked property. Either they used unconventional mortgage, or they have a legal right-of- way. They need to talk to the mortgage co. and the attorney who bought the title ins. for them.

They have access but no one wants to chip in for road repair? That's kind of what I'm getting? The only property I've bought have been down private roads. It's never been a problem because my husband has big equipment and doesn't mind work. In town he was literally the only one that took care of the road, he finally just did it only to our house. Out here when we re-rocked and graded it 4 years ago the three full time neighbors (us included) all split the bill equally. We didn't have to though, we just want good neighbor relations, and they were fixing the road we use (and have legal access to use, it's everyones road, on no ones property). The fourth neighbor rents his property out and could care less about his land or road and didn't pay a penney.

As to the water, why not get a water catchment system. We live in Oregon, so lots of water, but we just put one in off our barn and got about 1000-1300 gallons in a weekend. As others mentioned there are other water options.

All that said, I am very very surprised someone bought land without investigating something so basic as water and access.

This is why you always have a professional inspecter inspect the property. Any inspector worth his salt would have asked about the well and septic. If he couldn't see what needs to be seen, he would have instructed the potential buyers to specificly question the situation.

Access should always be the #1 priority of any real estate transactions. Without access........you have nothing. Period.

Many states have laws on the books regarding "landlocked" property. The State of Wisconsin allows the sale of landlocked property, but it must be disclosed by the seller. Unfortunately, many people incorrectly believe their is no such thing as "landlocked" property.
Easement by perscription is possible, but not easy or cheap. Wisconsin stipulates that the road must have been used "continuously" for 20 years to qualify. Legal fees generally will run $5000 - $10000.

Assuming the easement problem gets resolved, there still is a problem with ingress/egress to the property. Shared roads are generally nightmares. Ones person's idea of proper road maintenance is nothing. Another person believes they should be able to drive a Buick Lesabre on the road without splashing any mud/dirt on the vehicle.
The problems with a shared road will last until the property is sold.

Live & learn

I don't want to sound really mean here - but it sounds like the real estate agent thought they were 'stealing' something. I mean putting something over on some poor old country bumpkin - and it may be the other way around.

Now if no realtor had been involved, I would understand. It is really easy to get into messes buying or selling property.

I have mixed emotions about disclosures. What might seem really egregious to some, might not even be an inconvenience to others. Things could not be disclosed just because seller didn't think about them.

When we sell property - land or houses, we always insert, "This property is being sold as is, where is. Seller makes no statements regarding the property. Buyer has viewed the property and has made his own determination."



WE sold a 12,000 sq ft, 100 year old house once, and the buyer had the realtor insert the clause that it wouldn't take more than $6,000 to put it into original condition. It would have taken over $100,000 to do that. It almost got by us.

So, if one wants guarantees, one needs to do their homework, hire the experts.

That doesn't mean I don't sympathize with the folks in this story.

if it was a good deal....it is still a good deal even if it costs $10,000 to drill a well...........