Problem with Landowner!

In Ohio all they have to do is hassle the animal, not harm it.

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Hunting dogs (hounds) were rare in Montana where I grew up but neighbors had a friend who had coon dogs. He would come out with his dogs and hunt occasionally. The neighbors would let everyone along the creek know he was coming and would be hunting (nobody objected) and he never had dogs that were uncontrolled ... never ran stock or deer ... and never 'lost' any dogs.

When I lived in southern Nevada I knew some people who had 'cat' dogs and I rode with them a few times. Where they hunted was remote, there were no close ranches/ residences and the dogs never ran deer or stock.

I now live in Kentucky ... rural but very, very heavily populated as far as my experience goes. We're in the hills but when there are no leaves on the trees I can stand on the top of my hill and see at least 10 yard lights at night and I'm probably not seeing more than a mile or two in any direction. There are a LOT of hunters here who hunt rabbit with Beagles and coon with coonhounds and I can't count the times we've had hunters come up looking for lost dogs (in the middle of the night) or had 'lost' dogs wander through. Even though they don't run the horses, they will spook them if they run out of the brush unexpectedly, or if hunters with lights go charging along the back fence at night. I don't need mares and foals going through fences, whether they are simply spooked by something or being chased by dogs.

Almost all of the places I've lived were pretty touchy about dogs running through the property, regardless of the reason or timing. I think that too many people have had bad experiences with stray or uncontrolled dogs to be very forgiving even with those dogs and dog owners that are not repeat offenders.

How dare he protect himself.THUS SSS
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Trouble was he wasn't protecting himself , he was just shooting a dog because he didn't want to see it running across his field. O and by the way I believe both parties involved were doctors or some sech twernt none of us hicks er rednecks..:-)

From what I understand his Dogs are well trained.They were running the Game they were suppose to.What you people don't understand these Dogs get out of hearing distance thats why they have Radio Collars.If they loose one Track and get on another it might take the Dogs miles from the Hunter.The Dogs will come to the Hunter once the Hunter catches up with the Dogs.Which I'm sure happen in this case.

You people talk about training as you would train your Lap Dog.Running Dogs can be well trained but it is altogether different.

I feel like I'm banging my Head on a Wall trying to explain,and should just be quite.But on the other hand I can't because people like you are trying to hurt something I love and have a very strong passion for.I just have to have my say.

big rockpile

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Well, that pretty much ends the conversation for me. Wow. Unbelievable what some will defend - just to take other's property.

--->Paul

You I can understand, Rockpile.

It comes down to people enjoying a free-wheeling, large-space sport.

Vs people wishing to protect their own private property.

I can see both sides, but I really tend to stick up for private property. Perhaps local custom can negate some of that, but just don't see how 'you folks' can go around using other people's property for free, and 'its ok, didn't hurt anyone' and that should be a protected use of other's property. It's still tresspassing, isn't it?

But, I do understand your points.

Some of the other people are pretty icky on this topic, I think the dogs should be left alone & the owners shot. Be careful who you are defending in this thread!

--->Paul

Our dogs are trained they do not mess with livestock because they have been raised with everything that you can think of. Our dogs were not lost just got ahead of us because we were not fast enough to catch them when they came off forest service. They DID NOT bother anything but the deer they were running. And I know this because we could hear them barking as they were running and they never stopped. We are not stupid and we are NOT poachers and we are not trespassers. we hunt because we love it and because we need the meat. And we do share with landowners that have let us hunt or fish on their place. All I wanted to know was why she and now most of you believe that it is alright to shoot dogs just because they run across your land. Heaven help the cow chicken goat or dog that come across your place.. And yes we own land, actually we live on land that my husbands grandpa owned years ago. Ya'll act like hunting is so awful but then its ok just to kill something coming across land that they have no idea that they shouldn't be on. And for this 100% control that is such a crock. No one has 100% control of their animals, due to the fact that stuff happens---tree on fence, soft dirt means digging, kids left gate open, ---I tried to be nice and explain what happened that we were sorry didn't want the dogs down here to begin with, I had several kids with me at this time so tried to be nice in front of them because we have taught the kids to show respect. Our family shows respect to landowners, land, wildlife. If our dogs were bothering something then you do what you have to do. But these were not. I guess I better go shoot my neighbors 2 big pyr. dog because they are back on our land. Oh I forgot they are just lonesome because our neighbor had to sell all of her sheep so they come over to watch over our goats and calves in the back 40. No I am not going to do that but some of you would, wouldn't you? I will post no more because some of you think we are so stupid and dumb and also I do not believe we did anything wrong nor did our dogs.

"Well, that pretty much ends the conversation for me. Wow. Unbelievable what some will defend - just to take other's property."
Wasn't defending anything just telling it like it happened!
Had a deputy living next to me that had beagles, and yes they ran deer occasionaly, mostly rabbitts, bugged me when I'd be sitting in my woods deerhunting and the beagles ran the deer off, but it wasn't a shooting offense. luckily for me dogs and owner have moved..:-)

Just to make sure I don't get lumped into your generalized group let me clarify that I would never shoot someone's dog for running across my property (although I can't guarantee that dog's safety should my nine catch it on their territory). I WILL NOT TOLERATE TWO-LEGGED tresspassers though! If I see someone on my property without my permission I will call the Sheriff's Dept. and I will let the tresspasser know they are not welcome...and I won't be nice about it. Many times we have let folks look for their dogs on our place and once I've actually found a dog and taken back to the man who was looking for it a few days earlier. However, those folks are NOT allowed to carry their guns with them while looking for their dogs.

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A good neighbor..:-)

I would not shoot dogs that run across my land as well. I would take other actions if it happened alot.

My dogs are under control. My dogs are bred to chase stock. They are trained to stop when I say. I don't understand hunting dogs or or at least the kind you run, just like I don't understand dogs that are trained to kill. Bird dogs are trained to not eat what they flush or retrieve.

What I do understand is private property and my enjoyment of it. I live with national forest on two sides. Hunters cross my property( national forest easement) to go hunting, four wheeling, horseback riding etc.

I don't want them any where they should not be. I don't want them chasing or shooting at the deer, elk and moose that know my land is a safe place to be in hunting season.

I am polite 9 out of 10 times but on a bad day or after too many bad experiances I could very well react in a "bad landowner" way. It happens to be my right. I work very hard to pay the mortgage taxes and up keep on this property.

Do you understand that? I am sure you do. You felt the need to label this landowner. I am sure she felt the same need.

Are you standing in her shoes now? Maybe you you were just the last straw.

Well, you should have not asked opnions if you werent prepared be open minded. If so many folks disagree with you...we cant all be crazy or wrong. Maybe the owner simply finds running deer offensive? Certainly you have a legal right to do so, but maybe the owner didnt want her property being used or touched by something she felt strongly about... I dont like traspassers and would be really ----ed if my property was violated by something i hate. Maybe she ddidnt like you because she thought your activity was disgusting? Im not a fan of running deer, but isnt a big deal to me either. But I will say that for every person in the USA who runs deer with dogs, there are 10 people who think your hobby is deplorable. You are doing an activity that many find offensive even if you feel its not. Maybe she just was disgusted by your presence. You may not have been nice to anti hunters putting up PETA signs up at your place by accident.

JUST SOMETHING TO CONSIDER.

Maybe you'd have gotten a different response with the Great Outdoors forum that is more populated by hunters and such.

Angie

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I don't know...maybe ya'll just live in really bad places where people just aren't nice. DH and I are up early on the weekend mornings sitting on our porch drinking coffee. We just wave at the hunters and they wave back ( occassionally they bring us some deer sausage from previous hunting trips) Heck last week, when I knew many were out hunting on the adjoining land, I kept my husky in the house so she wouldn't distract their dogs or scare the deer as she barks alot...They are respectful of my property and I of their sport. Maybe ya'll just have more mean people in your areas.

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Christanie Farm...living life as it was intended

"They are respectful of my property and I of their sport. "

That is the point! If they are respectful of our property, they stay off it.

Jill

I am not anti-hunting and I am not anti-dog. I own my own property. I have mature woods. I have groves and lines of thousands of pine trees. In several places on my property I have brush piles for rabbit habitat.
I've been a hunter and I've given permission for people to hunt my land.
But when I decide for some reason to decline permission, my NO means NO. This year I declined to give family members permission to hunt my property. No special reason, just didn't want anybody with firearms and/or dogs on my property this year.
A responsibile hunter should know the boundarys within which a dog might possible chase its prey. If that boundary might encroach upon my property during the chase then I feel it is the hunters responsibility to ask my permission before the hunt even begins. If I decline permission and you still insist upon running your dogs near my property, then it is your responsibility to figure out a method to keep your dogs off my property. If you are unable to keep your dogs off my property, then you should find some place else to hunt.

In his day, my grandfather could command his dogs to cease the hunt and they would obey without hesitation. I can't spell the Yelp he used but the dogs were very well trained and knew exactly what his command meant.

Sorry to be so late in posting onto this subject but i have to throw a few cents worth of lectricity into the foray.

First the original poster was hunting on National forest, something we all do from time to time if a person hunts at all particularly out in the western states and more particularly in Idaho where a big share of ground is "public" controled ground.

For those of you who never hunted with hounds afore, once they are on a hot track they tend not to pull off and go after anything else, meaning they will run thru a pasture of sheep chasing a hot track of another animal and not even stop to sniff the scat.

As for the opinon of the hunter not getting out of their rig cause the dogs have a collar on them, a friend had his dogs on a walking bear [one that wont bay up in the brush or climb a tree, he topped out on one ridge as the dogs were talking the bear over the the next one over half a mile away [we are in central idaho where the straight line point of a half mile was like double to triple that going down and back up those ridges] no collars were on those dogs cause they were out in mass at that time, and he lost those dogs, 30 days later those dogs came in to a ranch house about 50 miles from home, my friend had given up on those dogs for dead cause it was a big bear [bear hunters tend to lose a dog now and again to a mean bear, another friend lost 5 dogs one day to one bear... so much for the easy prey and a year later he lost his teenage son who slipped on a cliff chasing the hounds]..... gave my dogs up a few years ago, I just dont have the time to keep them going like i did when i had them, my dad-in-law still has a pack of leopard cur [not to be confused with the catahoula] and those are the only dogs ive ever been around that can be called off a very hot track using a goat horn, and fast those dogs can cover more ground than a fella can drive trying to keep up f he knew the roads was going the same direction, all we can do is get on a road and get close and then hike in to a tree, usually no less than half a mile and more over a mile or better since the forest circus has gated the RS 2477 right of ways under unlawful circumstances.... a whole different thread. For those who have never spent a night out in December just before new years when it is below zero, chasing the hounds to a tree where the cougar treed about 6 feet off the ground at 3 am and have it bail out on you in the dark, cause you aint supposed to shoot until daylight in idaho [yes i know its done and so do the FaGs] then have the big cat roust a couple a smaller bobcats and the three dogs none can find the big cats track and catching those hounds up in the dark as they run up and back trails trying to sort out the scent they were originally following was interesting, then waiting for another 3 hours til dalight so my friend and i could work the tracks out for the dogs was interesing as well, by the time we got light enough i was froze literaly, my clothes from the melted snow and sweat, and the hair on my head was froze solid where exposed, i had ice hanging from my beard, and we decided to call it for the time being and headed home, we were 4 miles hike from our rig, and another 2 hours to town...... but it was a memorable hunt. As were several others that we treed cats on that winter and took pictures, knocked the cats out f the trees with snowballs and chased them again... not every animal gets killed, we treed 30 different cats that season with those dogs, which are all pased on to another hunting ground now, having lived to die from old age and still having been great hunting companions.....

Now to those people who think they have PRIVATE property and OWN that property.... try not paying your rent to the state for it and see how loing it remains in your possession beofer it is taken from you and given to another, not since 1932 has anyone held true Private Property, it has all bee returned to the government and you if you are in possesion of property hold a warranty deed entitling you use of the proprty under certain conditions..... the facade of you keeping out everyone you dont like is just merely codified in the intent of the legislatures to appease the few people who could expose the the whole scam to the rest of the public and the governement would return to a republic and there would no longer be welfare recipients in the congress, or any other governemnt non-productive position..... get a government paycheck of any sort of a "job" and you are on the welfare rolls in my book, those getting social security were sucked into a ponzi scheme that is about to burst but again that too is another story, though those are not included in the welfare recipient list as much as long as they payed in and retired.....

The first people t scream about cats coming close to their precious farm animals are the ones who post to keep hunters away, bring the wildlife that support the predators into that area in abundance and as such they deserve to have happen to their critters what happens in the natural order of things, it called the food chain and there isnt anything that can be done about it when you post you dont aloow hunting of anykind and we as hunters stay away...... by the same token you are not alowed to pick up my dogs, nor catch them and detain them, as they too are stock, and stock is protected from abuse in Idaho, should you shoot my dogs while they are hunting you have committed a mis demeanor offense, and such can carry a fairly stiff fine and jail time, not to mention reimbursement of the cost of the animal and the training time involved, i hope that your insurance policy is up to date cause otherwise you will be hurtin financially.

Those of us who hunt dogs are a small lot of folks, but dont underestimate our knowledge of the laws surrounding the sport, and knowledge of the defintions of the word tresspass, and its repeated use of tresspassing, meaning to repeatedly tresspass which we do not do.....

And as for the funding of conservation it was the pittman robertson act of 1937 that keeps pumping dollars into the conservation movement, and every piece of sporting goods sold has a small tax against it to go towards that fund http://federalasst.fws.gov/wr/fawr.html

Blu3duk

William
Central Idaho republic

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You're responsible for your hunting dogs. If they trespass that is your responsibility. Keep control of them. I don't like people running their hunting dogs over my property, on purpose or by accident, without my permission. The hunting dogs rile my livestock.

Another reason you may want to control your dogs because they may run into livestock guardian dogs who will consider your dogs to be predators and kill your dogs which is within the LGD's job description. Don't go thinking your dogs will come out ahead in that fight. LGD's work for a living. Strange dog = coyote or wolf => kill => your dog is dead. LGD's don't care that yours are 'dogs'. To them they are predators to be eliminated if they trespass into the livestock pastures.

Lastly, if I catch the dogs, as opposed to my LGD's doing it, then I'll tie your dogs up and call the game warden who comes and takes your dogs. The game wardens are very strict against hunting dogs being used on private property without permission. Hunters can lose their dogs and their license to run dogs or even hunt over this issue according to the game wardens.

If you want permission to hunt ask. I allow several groups to hunt on our property - one who uses rabbit dogs. But if I catch people hunting without permission I report them. Running your dogs across someone's property, even accidentally, is hunting without permission on private property. Don't do it.

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It's pretty simple, rock. Keep your dogs off other peoples property.

Would I shoot a dog that runs wild on my property the first time? No. I will try not to punish the dog itself for its owners irresponsible behavior. If it happens a second time you can bet I'll be addressing the dogs owner, and if the activity does not cease immediately I will continue
progressively "addressing" the issue with the owner until it ceases to be a problem. I will relentlessly pursue the owner until their irresponsible behavior changes.

I keep hearing how hunters can "control" their dogs during these hunts. Yet I also hear about "tracking collars" to help "find" the dog when they get out of sight. That just does not make any sense at all. If you need tracking collars than your dog is not under your control enough that you can prevent it from going on others property.

I see three possible options for hunters who want to use dogs for this type of hunting.

1. Own enough of your own property so that you can "run" the dogs on a hunt and not have to worry about them getting onto others property. This may include a perimeter fence that would contain the dogs if they get near the edge of the property during their hunting.

2. Some sort of temporary shock collar for the dogs that could be triggered by the hunter the second the dog goes out of the hunters sight. This would give the hunter time to "catch up" with the dogs.

3. Have the dogs and the hunter well enough trained such that the second the dogs begin to get out of sight, the hunter can give voice commands that will absolutely, positively stop that dog in its tracks, until the hunter can catch up to them.

I am a hunter, but respect of private property rights comes far ahead of my desire to practice any sort of hunting methods that have the potential to violate others private property. That dog just doesn't hunt as they say.

*SIGH* anyone hunt with hounds? If not, then buy one and train it and then hunt the dog and you'll find out soon enough that coonhounds do not take direction well when under working conditions and on a track. Then you'll understand what I mean. If you're talking about livestock herding dogs..they're bred to TAKE direction from people! Hounds have been bred for hundreds of years to work INDEPENDENTLY and use their brains to find the animal at the end of the TRACK regardless of where the track GOES! Hounds also have what is called cold noses..in other words, they're bred to track old tracks and because of that, hounds are more appropriate for large tracts of land not small ones. Hounds instinctively bark on track (called baying) because the English people preferred dogs telling them where they were so they could follow. Main problem is America is alot larger than England and have lots of mountains and land so the dog outruns the hunter (very easy to do..have you tried beating your dog in a foot race?) and you can't hear the dog baying so the radio tracking device is on the dog so you can go and try to locate the said dog. My recommendation is if you're hunting where there are small tracts of land or where there's alot of people living in the area..go with cur dogs or such that have hot noses meaning that they only take very fresh tracks and do not wander too far..maybe 100-400 yards and they tend to check in with the hunter every few minutes from 5-30 minutes. Cur dogs also are silent on track therefore they're able to get to the wild animal much faster because they're silent. Hounds have been bred to run much furthur than curs and they NEVER check in. They also drive game much more furthur with all that baying. I adopted a walker mix female from the shelter and she was entirely untrustworthy off the leash. She ran from my ex girlfriend once and I found her 8 miles away in less than 20 minutes! so she went to a home where she is contained on leash or in the house at all times. My ex didn't understand that hounds weren't like her catahoula until she adopted that one. They do not think like typical dogs and can behave like a typical dog at the same time. With that being said I still like hounds but they're for special hunting situations.

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