Calling All Landlords...

[QUOTE=MorrisonCorner}METAL tank, if you can believe it. Round, metal, tank. [/QUOTE]

Ooh! Clean that up and get it to your scrap metal dealer!

Lynda

We had the whole engineering study, new system that handles sewage for TWO houses, and a 4 head spray/sprinkler system for the treated effluviant (spelling?) that goes out in the pasture for $8000.

I think you need to actually get bids.

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Alice
* * *
"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

I feel your pain. We have two rentals in our barn and are also working on borrowed time for the septic. Most folks around here use the 'grandfathered approach' where if you replace in kind you don't have to get a new septic design approved by the state. (I don't know if that is true or not, but many neighbors around us have done it). Anyways...because we are considered a 'commercial proproperty' because of the number of bedrooms we have on the septic our new system quote was around $28K as well. At some point we will have to 'bit the bullet', but for now we are just having the septic pumped twice a year. I also put out a stringent memo to the tenants about what can and cannot be flushed!

I wish I had some advice for you...let us know what you decide.

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The less I seek my source for some definitive - The closer I am to fine.

http://williampalmerhomestead.weebly.com/

Well, you couldn't even remove the tank, it is being held in place by the soils...it will disintegrate if touched at all.

Up here, they are sometimes removed, sometimes just crushed in place and they put sand over it-compact that well with some water, and move the line over to a new location.

I can't believe it's a steel tank! LOL, that's a LONG time for steel, I sell steel tanks and even with the newer coatings, 20, 25 years is what you are going to get (maybe 30, tops) and the drainfield will fail first, every time.

Your drainfield isn't working because the baffle is down. The means solids in the feild. Not good news, because that means nasty things to the guy with degrees that govern that stuff. E coli. and other bugs can migrate into the water table...big bad juju, sorry.

Can you get away with an outhouse and a grey water system for the time being?

If you can't do that, I would bag the whole thing, get rid of your tenants, and turn the structure into something else. (I never heard of "substandard" homes-to me, that's just homes not built to current code?) If it still has water and power, then why not a greenhouse or similar?

I'd go with Plan B. It appears Plan A and Plan C have too many variables that could go wrong. Plan B costs you nothing. If you don't need another outbuilding (your proposed barn), then I go with bulldozing it down, that way you aren't paying taxes on it either.

That's what i was thinking also.
SSS Just use the last two letters. OR use them in reverse if anyone comes poking around.

Morrison---I thought the new laws weren't going into effect until July 2007? We just had our leach field replaced for under $2,000.
Call Bernie Gagne. It is still warm enough to get the jmob done. Just have him come out. You should be able to get a new system in for way under the price you quoted.

To answer one of your questions---yes, part of the value of a rental---actually for us ALL the value of our rentals has been the cash-out at the end.

First, don't worry about your tenents not having a place to live. I know you may find this hard to believe, but tenants lie. If they are forced to leave they will find a place to live. This is NOT your problem.

Where did the $30K estimate come from and what does it include? A complete replacement from house to end of drainfield? However, may not be of much help if you have crushed places in the line. (In all likelihood crushed lines are from heavy equipment being driven over them.)

When was the last time the tank was pumped? Locally is cost $100-125 to have a tank pumped if there is ready access to it.

Doesn't sound like the system is lot confined. As mentioned above finding the ends of the leach field pipes and having them extended may be an option. An experienced septic system installer should be able to stand on top of your tank and tell you where the lines run and for how far with a fair degree of accuracy.

Probably the absolutely, positively worst thing you can do to a leach field septic system is to use a product like RIDEX. It defeats the very purpose of a standard septic tank. That is for the tank itself to act as nothing else but a settling tank for what the bacteria don't take care of (such as condoms, most women's sanitary products, coffee grounds, some brands of toilet paper/facial tissues, dirt and ground up bones, such as from a garbage disposal. The impact here is from filling up the tank, reducing the volume of water in which the bacteria have to work. The RIDEX doesn't help the bacteria. What it does is to keep some things in suspension, rather than beling allowed to float or settle. Those things are then flushed into the leach field lines where they settle and eventually clog it up.

Tank should have a baffle which prevents floating debris from going into the line to the leach field. If it is gone, then, for all practical purposes, you tank is useless and nothing you do to the drain field will help all that much.

A septic system can handle some amount of grease. However, there is a limit, such as if the renters are dumping all of their cooking grease down the drain. Personally I have an old shallow bowl in the yard I pour it in and let the possums and such have it. It can also be poured into an empty jar and when full (and lid put back on) put into the trash.

A good rule to follow is for nothing which hasn't passed through the human body to be put into the tank. My washing machine (which doesn't get used much to begin with) goes into a grey water system. Toilet paper goes into a small hamper next to the toilet and then into the landfill-destined household garbage.

Actually it sounds to me like this rental may be beyond economic repair. If so, and you do not foresee another use for it, such as storage, check into getting a permit to burn it down. You can then pull out metal from the ashes to sell as scrap. For what remains a backhoe operator ought to be able to scoop it up and haul it off to where a year later it would be hard to tell a house was even there. You may be required for them to uncover the top of the tank, crush it in and backfill it.

By and large we are speculating on your situation. Only you can make a decision. However.... Personally I would sink $30K into a septic system repair as it doesn't sound like it adds anything of particular value to the rental unit. Just continues to make it marginally liveable.

Please keep up periodically updated. Interesting situation.

And if you go this route, your local fire department might be interested in using it for a training excercise. Good way to burn safely and build skills for your local fire fighters at the same time.

Lynda

I know of one case locally which did the fire department thing. From what I was told only the fire chief knew the exact plan for it. He came out at about 4AM and started a fire in the bedroom with made up bodies in room and other areas to rescue. After about five minutes he called it in to watch the response. When it was out, another fire was started in the kitchen and, when well started, was put out. Final one was in the living room. Then the entire structure was allowed to burn to the ground with a water truck standing by for safety. Fire department got the practice and the house was burned down under safe conditons.

Can you perhaps sell the house and perhaps an acre as is, with defects made clear, and let a new owner worry about the problem? Then perhaps refinance your mortgage using the net proceeds to pay down the loan total (or as a payment to principal).

What about putting in a composting toilet aqnd aa grey water sytem, raise the rent a bit and rent to the hippy/nature crowd? probally cost you all of 2,000.

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Ehh, whatever.

I don't know where you live, or the codes there. They could be alot worse than in Va., I don't know, but I know there are many large areas in this state that has the same code as we do. If your land will perk, meaning absorbe the water, it is a simple job to put a septic system in.
They used to allow you to pour your own tank, but that is a now. If anyone lives in a state that has laws worse than in Virginia, Please let me know which states they are. I dang sure don't want to move there.

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If some one has done something before,
You can also do it, if you find out how they did it

We have power tools, ancestors didn't

keep kicking the ball
it won't stop rolling

Dennis

There are two things that cause a septic system to "quit working". One is sludge buildup in the tank and the other is the drain field is stopped up(roots most likely). Pump out the tank and rent a "roto-rooter" machine to clean the drain fields.
Permits? The only permit I need is my shovel. I would never ask permission for that. What they dont know wont hurt them. LOL!!!

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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, act alone, design a building, write a sonnet,fight efficiently and die gallantly."- R. A. Heinlein

How about a holding tank, then making the tenant pay to have it pumped? Would that be any cheaper?

"Permits? The only permit I need is my shovel. I would never ask permission for that. What they dont know wont hurt them. LOL!!!"

Maybe not, but if they do find out you altered an existing or put in a new septic system without a permit they can likely make you take it out AND require payment of a heafty fine. Folks are very sensitive to potential ground water pollution these days.

Also note in the original thread it was said there were almost crushed pipes. Roto-rooting won't solve that problem.