Burlington, VT & Portland, ME Opinions??

Since both of those listings are older homes I would make sure they are insulated or you will burn through alot of $$ each winter.

Also watch out for rock foundations since they will let in alot of cold, water, and 4 legged visitors.

I hope you understand that I am not trying to keep you out of Vermont :baby04:

Just make sure you are prepared for the experience before you buy a house and find out that the new job you just got can't pay the bills.

I have seen many people come to work where I am from all over the US and don't do their research and then find they have to move away because they just can't afford it here (and I am an IS Professional with a good paying job).

Scott

I do know what you mean with the older houses. We live in a 1906 brick victorian now, and before we replaced the furnace, windows, and insulated the attic (the walls cannot be insulated--plaster over brick), our heat was running about $800 a month in winter, keeping the thermostat at about 58 degrees!! Our rock foundation lets in a little water here, not too bad, but we ARE currently dealing with a bunch of squirrels who have seem to have taken up residence in the walls!

I'll look into the job situation, but I think we'll be able to do ok with our professions--we'd only move, of course, if he got the position he's applying for, and I think that I'd be able to find something decent. I'd check on that, first, though, of course!

I appreciate the honesty--better to find out now than later!

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And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb.. And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.. They shall not hurt nor destroy In all my holy mountain For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord.

I highly recommend heating with wood here in Maine...oil heat is not so expensive but wood is nice to have if there are power outages.

Here's a Gardiner area agent with a good reputation.

http://www.bradypalmerrealestate.com/

Just remember that high heating bills will last for a long time in Vermont. Usually it will start in late October/ early November and go until April or May. I am sure that you are not paying that much for that long where you are now.

Vermont is a wonderfull, but very expensive place to live.

Do not be fooled by thinking that the cost of living here is low as some would make you believe.

Come and visit and go into a grocery store and check food prices. Check cost of rent/ buying a house. Check taxes on the house you are looking at (our house is values at 175K and we pay $2500 a year but it varies by town and my parents is valued at 125K and they pay over $3000).

Think about having someone plow your driveway at $50+ a plowing (before we bought a 4 wheeler with a plow it was costing us $1,200+ a year for snow removal).

Trash removal costs ~3 a bag where I live.

Will you need to replace your current vehicle with a 4 WD because of the location you are living. We live in an area where you would not get home in the winter without 4WD. If you need a 4 WD it costs more to purchase, run, and insure.

If the house needs repairs get a good estimate of those costs because Plumbers and Electricians get 75 to 100 an hour, when you can find one.

I hope all of this helps you make the decision with more information.

I stayed in VT because almost all of my family is here, but I could have gone elsewhere and made more money and had a lower cost of living. Even with a good job it can be a strugle because things cost so much, but you adapt (and cut costs).

Hope this helps
Scott

I had to re-register two of our vehicles this week.

A saab 4-dr, and a buick stationwagon, down in Ct before we moved here each vehicle cost us around $300 / year. Down there both vehicles would run close to $700 each year.

Here in Maine, the total bill for another year of registering and taxes?

$214.58 for both vehicles together.

Skiing happens in Maine too BTW Sugarloaf, Sunday River....we have a camp 13 miles from Sugarloaf but we dont have time to ski....that happens when you have kids and animals!

An average home of 2000sq ft will use about 3-4 tanks of oil to heat if its reasonably new construction and/or well insulated/updated older place. A tank is 250 gallons (most common tank size)...and it includes domestic hot water....heating oil is 2.19...so a year of heat and hot water from oil exclusivly (no wood) will run around $2200 but chances are your light bill will be significantly less and no propane. So $200 a month for heat/hot water over the year. My lights run about $60/month....for 5 of us...no clothes dryer.

Generally a cord of wood equals 100 gallons of oil and the price for seasoned cut/split/delivered will reflect that...1 cord as described $200 easily.
BUT!!!! if you have any gumption you can cut your own wood off your own property or have tree length delivered for $85 a cord green. Working with wood is fantastic exercise and rather enjoyable IF you do it before/after bug season. We buy with a few others and with 120 cord purchase tree-length the price is $70 cord.

As for plowing snow get an old beater "farm" truck for about $1200...my dad just sold his for $750 and put a new plow on his reg truck as he has reached an age where he doesnt want to tinker much. Or work out a deal with a neighbor....At our place we own the plow truck but my self-employed neighbor plows and maintains the truck in exchange for no plowing bill as we share a long drive and he has another driveway as well. You may even find a deal on a tractor with a blade for plowing

As far as Maine goes....I could never live anyplace else....except maybe AK...I like life in the slow lane....and I have no patience for pretty big consuming types....and we have our share of them....the closer you live to the city the more likely you are to encounter them. The only exception that I know of to this rule is "pyrnad"....she lives in Farmington (another beautiful part of the state).

As the New England area is one of the few areas to which I would relocate, I try to keep up on the area. In IL, I pay $78 per vehicle per year for plates. Sales tax when you buy a vehicle from a non-family member but no other taxes. Schools are heavily funded (operating expenses more than building) by property taxes but there are some breaks (senior citizen etc). Is this the same/similar in your area?

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Beware of radical christians: http://listverse.com/2015/03/22/10-p...e-for-america/

The schools are over-funded...but throwing money at the problems certainly has solved the behavior issues which lead to poor education.

There are tax breaks for different things..tree growth and agriculture programs are separate I believe

http://www.state.me.us/revenue/prope...exemptions.htm

Toughed it out in SW vermont and NW Mass. for a year and a half, but 11 years ago. The income was low, cost of living high. We just couldn't make it and returned to the Pacific Northwest. My husband got a much higher paying job doing the same thing ( He actually had two jobs in Mass. so we could get by) and the rent was the same in Kirkland, WA (a Seattle Suburb) for a nicer place than the one we had in Mass. I heard that in Burlington it was much worse at that time than where we were. Obviously, it may be very different today.

Visited Burlington, looked like a nice college town similar to the one I grew up in. My sister and brother in law lived there while he was in college and really loved it. They did find the cost of living quite high however.

kids

yes

Dredging up this old thread with an update--I think we're in trouble. We just spent a long weekend in VT (scheduled around my fiance's interview in Burlington), and we may be in LOVE! Uh oh.

Spent Saturday kicking around Burlington, doing a little Christmas shopping, then took the back way into Stowe going up Rt 15 and looking at some real estate along the way. Spent Sunday trying to ski at Stowe, but there's a reason we got those lift passes dirt cheap--most of the trails were closed, and the conditions were a bit icy because it's been unseasonably warm. Oh well. Monday we ditched skiing and drove up to Montreal--only had enough time to grab lunch and walk around a bit. I wasn't excited by Montreal, or the Canada side of the border up there in general. Back to Burlington Monday night for an interview dinner, and I kicked around Burlington again on Tuesday during my guy's interview. I wish we had made it over to the NY side to look around, but no such luck.

Everyone was exceptionally nice. Dogs everywhere (and we love our dogs). Pretty, pretty as far as the eye could see. Crime apparently nil, and happy children everywhere. Great vegetarian food (Stone Soup, mmmm). Snow on the ground. If it's going to be cold, snow is a great consolation prize--makes it all worth it. Chicago was cold without snow, mostly--blech.

One guy at the program lives on a couple acres in Jericho, and reported a 30 minute commute, any time of day--and said his commute is longer than most people's. He said his neighbors are great--even plow his driveway when needed. Another person at the program actually commutes from Stowe. Another person heats with a pellet stove, and has just planted a bunch of sawgrass and bought a pelletizer so she can make her own pellets for the stove. Another guy said he goes back up to his parents' place in the Northeast Kingdom to make maple syrup every year, and we're more than welcome to come with anytime. It also sounds like this program is very family friendly and relaxed, which is important to us.

I don't know. I had to go back and read this thread to help me pull off my rose colored glasses. We're seriously considering it.

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And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb.. And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.. They shall not hurt nor destroy In all my holy mountain For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord.

Glad you enjoyed your time in VT.

Those of us that have lived in this area for a long time have a saying.

"Burlington is a great city. It is especially nice because it is so close to Vermont" :-)

If you are seriously considering moving here don't be afraid to look at real estate in neighboring Franklin County to the north. You can buy a lot more for your dollar in Fairfield, Swanton, Sheldon, St Albans etc then you can in Jericho, Underhill, Richmond and other places commuting distance to the east and south of B-town. I-89 runs north from B-town and makes for an easy commute depending on where you are in Franklin County. My commute is 35 minutes from Sheldon. I occasionally take rt15 from B-town to visit friends in Cambridge and I would allow more then 30 minutes to get to Jericho from downtown B-town during the typical commute times.

Forget Stowe for Skiing. It is more hype then anything. Smugglers Notch, Sugarbush and Jay Peak are much better with Jay Peak being my personal favorite.

I would not consider crime as nil in northwest VT. A few years ago maybe but unfortunatly the scum from the cities of Mass and NY have found a willing market for drugs up here and there has been a major increase in burglaries, home invasions, armed robberies and other crimes by the kids who are trying to feed their habits. I'm sure it is nowhere near the same as in a large metropolitan area but I certainly wouldn't call it nil.

Burlington itself is a very liberal college town. If you buy property in B-town be prepared to abide by the many rules set forth by those that know what is best for you. :-)

The cold issue is very subjective. I consider it to be "cold" when the thermo dips down into the single digits. Any higher then that is pretty much business as usual and nothing to get worked up about. Typically, by my recollection, we might see a couple weeks of that extreme cold a winter. The last few years have been downright balmy by those standards. Last year was so warm I might have enough of last years wood left over to get me through this winter. So far we are on the same pace but you never know what Mother Nature has in store for us.

All in all... I have lived in NW VT all my life. I have done a little traveling to some nice places but I have never really had the urge to move away from this area. Between Lake Champlain, the Green Mountains the low population density and proximity to Boston and Montreal ( I would give Montreal another chance If I were you :-)) this area has everything I need. Of course you do need to know how to make the best of the long winters :-).

Let me know If I can help you with info or anything.

If nothing else I'll take you out for your first cow tipping experience! ;-)

Now now... Stowe has great skiing! It is just a wee bit expensive!

Grew up in S. Burlington, undergrad at UVM, now live in Mansfield, which is outside of Stowe. We get to Burlington once a month or so (cheaper shopping) and I agree with the post "the nice thing about Burlington is it is close to VT." You can get a nice place in Richmond, Jericho, Essex, etc... or you can get a fixer-upper in downtown Burlington. Having been there, done that, I'd advise looking at a neighborhood very carefully if you're going to "urban homestead" route. You do not want to be in the middle of a student neighborhood.

As for VT being expensive. Relative to what I've seen people claim they pay for "stuff" here I'd have to say there is a "VT surcharge." That said... you get to live in VT.

Worth, in my opinion, any price!

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Icelandic Sheep and German Angora Rabbits

Thanks for the good advice and encouragements. The weather you describe really doesn't sound so bad--really, a lot like Chicago, but better because of the snow. I can take it, I think. I love winter, but I do have a low cold tolerance just physically speaking (esp. fingers and toes), so I have to bundle up like a marshmallow when it's below 20 or so. I want to get some Carrhartt coveralls for this winter, and see if that helps.

I'm not much of a skiier (yet), but my fiance is, so I'll pass on those recommendations.

So, as for real estate and commuting to Burlington (and we have to stay close to Burlington, because that's where the jobs are), I was really hoping to stay under 45 minutes, and of course the lower the better--but I'd like to have at least 5 acres, and 10 to 50+ would be even better. After being there, I sort of thought that as long as we stayed in Chittenden County we'd be fine--but I did see many more bigger and cheaper listings up 89 towards St. Alban, so that would be great if the commute really isn't so bad. I don't want to "urban homestead" anymore--that's what we've been doing, and I'm just about sick of it.

What is the quality of the schools like around there--public and/or private? Are there any areas known specifically to be the best? I know in the county I grew up in in Maryland, there were 2 or 3 public high schools that had a reputation for sending kids to the best colleges, and that was a great resource to have. The one I went to was a magnet school, so we didn't even have to live in an expensive neighborhood for me to attend--admission was based on testing.

Things didn't seem so expensive to me, there. I guess it's all in what you're comparing it to. We do most of our grocery shopping at Whole Foods, anyway, so it's not like we're getting a dozen eggs for $0.79 now or anything. Our property taxes where we live now are about $2,500 per $100,000 assessed value, so I think that's pretty high compared to almost anywhere. I'll miss the trash service, I'm sure, but we already have a 4wd pick-up and could get a plow for it easily enough to do our own plowing if needed.

Now for the really important question--can you grow watermelons in NW Vermont without a greenhouse??

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And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb.. And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.. They shall not hurt nor destroy In all my holy mountain For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord.

The school question: Vermont has an equalized funding law which is supposed to have eliminated deep divisions between town schools. What you're supposedly left with is making decisions based on the size of the school. So, for example, Stowe traditionally graduates under 60 students annually. Very small class sizes. Very tight student body. Very difficult for a new kid, especially a teen, to become part of that class... and I've personally witnessed some real disasters when people have moved into town with older children who weren't able (or allowed) to integrate with their peers. Kids, you may recall, can be really vicious.

A mid-sized school offers more diversity (in a largely white state this is a bit of a joke, but I mean diversity in income and home backgrounds). A large school (and we don't have many of them) such as Burlington or S. Burlington will have resources really small schools don't... but they'll also be large schools, with attending issues associated with large schools.

In other words, VT schools aren't much different than schools in other rural states.

Picking property: First of all, real estate agents know squat all about farming. UVM offers a database of farmland, somewhere, on their site. If you get on the State of Vermont Agricultural Agency website you may be able to find a link, otherwise, email them and ask for it. But you need to look at your property with an eye to the soil structure more than to the buildings or you're going to be spending a lot of money trying to change something pretty basic: sand or clay soil to something decent. Been there, done that, have the blisters to prove it. Only way to do it is a lavish, lavish, lavish application of compost and/or many raised beds. In other words, choose the wrong property and "drop seed in the ground expect sprout" thing isn't going to work.

My gut feeling having farmed in both places is that Hinesburg / Monkton /Richmond offers more farm for the buck than going north toward St Albans does. Along the lake apples grow well. And strawberries, actually. More inland you've got more diversity. I've lived on the lake and in the mountains and lake land can be Very Expensive. Which isn't to say mountain land can't get pricey too, but the lake area? Ouch.

My place in Hinesburg was about (at that time) a 1/2 hour commute to UVM over good roads with stunning scenery. I enjoyed evey moment of the drive both ways.

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Icelandic Sheep and German Angora Rabbits

The quality varies enormously between schools. Our town is one of the lowest quality schools and close to the most expensive. It is appalling. Ironically, we also have the highest rate of homeschooling, in part because the town school is so bad people don't want to send their kids there. Fortunately, Vermont is a great place to homeschool. See http://education.vermont.gov/new/htm...homestudy.html for details.

You might want to join the http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VermontHomesteaders/ discussion list. There are several other Vermont lists on Yahoo Groups and might be a source of finding property. There are also quite a few Vermonters here on Homesteading Today who might know of property. We are down east of Montpelier so a bit out of the area you're looking in.

Depending on what type of farming you want to do will determine where you want to look for land. The bottom land soils are better for crops but the hill country is great for livestock and a lot cheaper in many cases. Where ever you go, make sure you have good water available. Not usually an issue in Vermont.

If you are planning to really farm you might be able to get a great deal on land through the Vermont Land Trust (http://www.vlt.org/) or similar groups that are trying to keep farm land in active use. I have read that they offer extremely good deals but you won't be able to divide up and sell of the land - the point is to keep it in agriculture. Another group to check out is Rural Vermont (http://RuralVermont.org/).

Cheers,

Walter
SugarMtnFarm
in Vermont

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SugarMtnFarm.com -- Pastured Pigs, Poultry, Sheep, Dogs and Kids

I just got back from a carol sing with friends who are moving to Maryland to be closer to their kids. They have not put their house on the market yet. It is in Northfield close enough to I-89 to make an good commute to the Burlington area but far enough away to be beautiful. Their place has a beautiful house they built, field and woods. I'm not sure how many acres. If you email me (walterj at sugarmtnfarm dot com) I'll give you their phone number and you can give them a call.

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SugarMtnFarm.com -- Pastured Pigs, Poultry, Sheep, Dogs and Kids